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Agricultural business. Registering as self employed in Poland.


chesnakas 1 | 22
2 Jan 2015 #1
I wish to register as self employed in Poland,in the beginning I am an EU citizen, sort of own half a property in Poland ( the property is agricultural and until 2016, foreigners cannot own agricultural properties/land, without permission from the minister of agriculture) I bought it and registered it with my then wife, since divorced but the property is not disputed as we have two children and it works fine for me as the Gmina Taxes on it are only around 400pln. I wish to register as an Organic Vegetable Producer.

I must first go to the local gmina and register for stays over 90 days, I know this but need to know, which order must I do the rest and where?

Where do I register the Business and because it's Agricultural will the fees be lower, I know in Nederland, it is and think it's an EU norm?

How much must I pay KRUS/ZUS which is it I must pay and from which date?
NIP and Regon are these both obtainable from Urząd Skarbowy and how long does it take.
I think when all these things are done I can go the Urząd Wojewodsto, and get my 5 years residents permit.
I live and work in Norway, so need to get things arranged quickly as don't have time to be chasing around blind, so would like to know in simple terms how is the most practical way of doing it. I could take you to holland, if EU citizen, could do all this in one day and would only have to come back once for immigration office.
jon357 63 | 15,214
2 Jan 2015 #2
There are tons of threads on this.

It's very possible, but does require a bit of legwork round various offices, plus there's a lot of false information on various threads (people saying you need a PESEL, a dedicated bank a/c etc)
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
2 Jan 2015 #3
Thanks for the quick reply and advice, checked out a few of the posts and because of the confusion stirred up was hoping for the fast fire answers, without the false information. I know you don't need a pesel to buy the insurance as the information is on the site of ZUS. I could also go down the road registering as "economically non active" and pay no insurance as am covered in Norway, but that is too much hassle due to documents/contracts needing to be translated and proof of financial means. Obviously without a registered enterprise you would never get a bank account in an enterprises name, if for example where it was compulsory, I know of an example but it's off topic. I have a polish bank account and the only paper needed was the first meldunek from local Gmina, and title deeds from my house,

It's where to register the business is where I'm looking for.

Gaucho hit the nail on the head with this link foreigners in poland /work/start-business-in-poland.html
It's all very simple on the face of it but my sector (Agriculture) is regulated and that is where the problems for me will start, not so much problems but a whole heap of rubber stamps and flimsy bits of paper. I guess I'll need to do something else until 2016
Lukasz_K
3 Jan 2015 #4
As far as I know in agriculture it is quite a different think.

I do not know if you can be a farmer in Poland as a foreigner (since foreginers can not own agricultural land) but it is worth trying.

Farmers in Poland do not register as "one man companies" they just have just a "producer number" (numer producenta) which they revive from ARMiR (Agencja Restrukturyzacji i Modernizacji Rolnictwa). They do not pay income tax only agricultural tax based on the area of the land they use. They also have their own social security system (KRUS) which is not based on the income (as they do not have to report their income - see above - they do not pay income taxes...).

Maybe you should ask in your local ARMiR bureau?

Lukasz
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
3 Jan 2015 #5
I know that agriculture is a closed sector in Poland, until 2016, as said I sort of own agricultural property already but if you read the Title deeds properly although I'm named as co owner it actually states it belongs to my (ex) wife's wealth "Mjatek". I have asked by the CEIDG and awaiting their reply, interesting what they say. What I want to do is more horticulture and on a small scale, my ex wife has land and pays krus even though she lives abroad if she were to help me it would be easy but sadly not the case.
cms 9 | 1,271
4 Jan 2015 #6
You might spend so mch time and cost pursuing this status that it would have been easier to pay your 1200 per month zus. I know lots of cab drivers buy farmland to avoid zus but they are Polish citizens.

I didnt realise those farmland restrictions stayed until 2016. i thought they expired in 2011. If thats true its a bit hypocritical of the Polish govt to get so upset about the Brits trying to restrict free movement of labor as I thought that was part of the same deal in 2004.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
4 Jan 2015 #7
I know lots of cab drivers buy farmland to avoid zus but they are Polish citizens.

How does that work, if I may ask? How can their driving a taxi income not be taxed or be flat-taxed as farm income?
pigsy 7 | 305
4 Jan 2015 #8
I would ask the same question?If one can buy farmland to avoid zus?(is it some kind of tax loophole)
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
4 Jan 2015 #9
Also that loophole of buying land to avoid paying too much in social insurance is now closed and has been for some years, you needed at least 2 hectares but now to qualify you need to have finished szkolne rolnicze or have a related qualification. There's probably a million poles abusing krus considering that in the last 15 years more and more small farmers are stopping due to reaching retirement and receiving pension if they dump land, which they do by writing ownership of it over to siblings, who in turn rent it out to another farmer, and go abroad/do something else and pay minimal social insurance.

I just need to get my five year residents permit as have property that I'm busy with and have a Transit Van, that's been sitting in my barn for six years without registration and can save a fortune by going getting materials myself, so my plan is to get my 5 year permit and use the "sole trader" route to get it as it's the easiest and can always close it within minutes of walking out of the Urząd Wojewodzki and cancel the krus.

As I understand from other sites/posts there may have been a PESEL already issued to me when I registered at my address for a set period a couple of years ago but I never asked for it and Gmina didn't tell me so I am going to call them and ask. I'll probably set up as a "freelance english teacher" as won't look suspect when I bin the idea within weeks. I have gone through the list of prohibited agricultural occupations and the only thing you could probably stump them on would be Bamboo as it doesn't fall into any class or description they have widely used.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
4 Jan 2015 #10
Peter Veg may know more about this than I, but I thought there was a lot of paperwork for anyone before starting a farm, whether a Pole or foreigner (although I assume foreigners are excluded until 2016)

Additionally, I have no idea how a cabbie with 2 ha of agricultural land somehow gets the benefit of reduced or zero taxation for his taxi driving earnings - if he does. Sounds too good to be true.
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
4 Jan 2015 #11
"Additionally, I have no idea how a cabbie with 2 ha of agricultural land somehow gets the benefit of reduced or zero taxation for his taxi driving earnings - if he does. Sounds too good to be true." because it probably is, maybe he only gets to pay KRUS at the lower end but earnings will be taxed normally, and he would need to declare income. costs and vat otherwise the business would not be viable. Ordinary farmers do not get back VAT or bring it into a account. The business a cabbie is "Off Farm Activities".
cms 9 | 1,271
4 Jan 2015 #12
They dont get zero taxation - they merely avoid the upfront zus cost which for an average cabbie they probably need about 100 punters to cover it. If that loophole is now closed i am sure they will either find a new one or keep some of those falling gas price for themselves
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
4 Jan 2015 #13
The business a cabbie is "Off Farm Activities".

I see :D

They dont get zero taxation - they merely avoid the upfront zus cost which for an average cabbie they probably need about 100 punters to cover it. If that loophole is now closed i am sure they will either find a new one or keep some of those falling gas price for themselves

Can't all new businesses get reduced ZUS every month for Year 1? Something like 400 zl. That's quite a bit less than any large initial ZUS needing 100 fares, surely?
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
4 Jan 2015 #14
"Can't all new businesses get reduced ZUS every month for Year 1? Something like 400 zl. That's quite a bit less than any large initial ZUS needing 100 fares, surely?"

Yes you get a two year relief 2013 was 414pln as opposed to full rate of seven hundred something. I don't know how it works but know from other experience if you can qualify as "farmer" or into that category you get loads of benefits from EU subsidies and tax reliefs. I operated so in Holland and had a full time job and never had it so good post crises, my job earning was almost tax free. I want eventually only grow one crop, max 2500m2 a year and the subsidies I don't want or need as can't be bothered with regulation and interference. Even if I could register now what I want the hassle and stress would break you.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
4 Jan 2015 #15
from other experience if you can qualify as "farmer" or into that category you get loads of benefits from EU subsidies and tax reliefs.

Sounds good! I am getting a good sense of the benefits! Where can I sign up? ;)
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
4 Jan 2015 #16
I was better off tax wise as got starters discount on my income, plus other discounts "self employed" etc. plus when it came to doing tax returns got money back for land use. When I left Holland, and done final returns the Inland revenue (Belastingdienst) claimed I had received €5000 too much, funny thing is they have sent letters to my old address and my bookkeeper but not to the address I gave when de-registering.

For example if I could register what I want to do it would take me at least three seasons of cultivation before I had a surplus to sell, so for three years I would only have costs and pay no tax. whilst claiming VAT back on telefon,internet etc etc.
Marcus911 3 | 102
19 Mar 2015 #17
How many hectares will you grow on? Do you have machinery? It's a huge investment to become a farmer unless you have family already in the business. If you have less than 25 hectares it is not worth investing. Good agricultural land will cost you anything up to 80,000 per hectare depending on quality and location.
OP chesnakas 1 | 22
19 Mar 2015 #18
Marcus, what your saying is complete nonsense, there's farming and there's farming. As for land prices the government are selling off at 24-34000zl a hectacre. I grow garlic and plan on growing 25 arow per year about 103,000 pieces, I'll need to keep about 10% for replanting and sell the rest for 50 euro cents each €46350 per year of course it needs to be certified organic. So what can you tell me about it?


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