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Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu?


HjFcMNB 2 | -
22 Nov 2009 #1
Hi, I'm having a huge problem with this dreaded Karta Pobytu.
I'm a citizen of Non-EU country and I came to Poland with the 90-days tourist visa-free traffic.I am now doing a Staz course at university here in Warsaw, so I applied for the Karta Pobytu lasting 1 year. This whole situation of applying to get the permission began on the 17th of August...Yes... It's been agonizing ever since...

I presented all the documents day wanted from me:
letter from my university confirming that I am a student there who pays regularly,
all the electricity, gas, water bills + Umowa najmu + Zameldowanie
Health insurance, photographs, application form of course...

and the problem lies here:
The financial proof...

In their information book, and also on many webpages, it says that you need to prove having 477zl per month for living as well as money to return to your country, rent fee and the tuition fee.

In my case, the calculation would be 477zl(living costs) + 400zl(tuition fee at uni) + 900zl (flat,bills) + 1300zl (flight cost back home) = 3077zl / month

So I presented them few times with the bank statements dating from July to November. I regularly receive money from my parents, monthly 3700-4000zl.

I made a PKO bank account in late July(28th) and saved in 3700zl, which was the money for August. I didn't receive any money during August because I simply got it during late July. So there is no record of me saving in money during August. Then I saved in 3300zl on the 3rd of September. October + November were fine.

When I got the result by the post a week ago, the decision was negative!! They were saying that I wasn't proving WELL enough that I am having income on regular base....

I asked many officers as well as the lawyers about this. Some of them said that I need to have the money for the whole year at once(......) and some of them(in the visa office) said, it's absolutely sufficient to prove the income on regular bases.

I have from now 7 days to appeal... and also in 7 days, my tourist visa free will be expired...I explained this to the lawyers at al.3 Maja and they simply suggested to ask my parents for more money... so currently I have about 9000zl in my account.

Could anyone tell me some past experiences of getting the Karta pobytu and some advices?

Thank you so much for reading this long thread.... Looking forward to hearing from you!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #2
Try lindenia. It is the website of a forum member called delphiandomine.
Raijin 1 | 20
22 Nov 2009 #3
HjFcMNB
I asked many officers as well as the lawyers about this.

I have had five times that process for appling for karta pobytu. I can imagine your situation because I'm already fed up with the stupid process. You see? This is reality of polish officers in city office. Each of them says something different.

Did you show a copy and your original credit card to the officer? (If you have)

The main problem is that you do not earn money here in Poland, isn't it? My foreign friend had the same situation but an officer accepted his financial condition when he showed copy of his credit card. But, it depends on officer. Please pay attention that all officers do not always accept the copied documents.

Anyhow, you do not have time to apply for karta pobytu.
If you have a certification of your money in your account, show it and try to show copied credit card within 7 days.

Unfortunately, I can only propose you to do so now...
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
23 Nov 2009 #4
Seanus - thank you!

Generally speaking - I think they've made the right decision here. It's a principle that students should have the money upfront to avoid the situation where they work throughout the year to pay for living costs, often 'black' - and I think this is what they've done here.

The other principle is that you should be spending this money - it's not uncommon for people to deposit (for instance) 30k in PLN into an account to 'prove' that they have the income, only for them to send the 30k back to wherever it came from once the residence permit has been obtained. If you're not spending it, then they may very well assume that it isn't for spending and thus doesn't count.

The only real advice I can give here is to deposit around 30k into the account and provide them with proof of expenditure - invoices/etc. If you need more in depth help - we're at lindenia :)

(that 477zl figure seems way too low for Warsaw!)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Nov 2009 #5
No worries matey. It can be a kafuffle and it's good to know that you have a professional online service for this. I'd use it myself were I not to keep abreast with modern developments and specific procedures.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,670
23 Nov 2009 #6
It can be a kafuffle

oooo a right kaffuffle.....
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Nov 2009 #7
Indeed! Anyway, I hope she gets what she needs

Seanus (seemingly genderless though I can vouch for not being)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
24 Nov 2009 #8
I'd use it myself were I not to keep abreast with modern developments and specific procedures.

The problem I think in Poland specifically is that you have to second guess them - if they ask for 477zl a month for living expenses, it's worthwhile to double that to 1000zl a month just to show that you won't be struggling in Poland. Likewise, it's sensible to have the money in one place at the start of the year - I can fully understand why they would be suspicious of someone who only had 9000zl in their account, especially considering Warsaw prices.

I think it can be most adequately explained as 'always cover ones arse' - and is generally the rule regardless of where you go where immigration is concerned.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Nov 2009 #9
Nest eggs are the same anywhere right enough. The same with insurance or credit, what have you. It's best to go to the official source and also keep up to speed with law reform as that has caught a few people out before.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Nov 2009 #10
My 5 year residence card runs out in mid-December, so, after looking up the Polish government website I find that:-

After 5 years of continuous stay within the territory of the Republic of Poland the EU citizen acquires the right to stay permanently.

Now, does this mean that I will be sent a permanent residence card automatically or do I have to apply for one? As it does not say, I decide to play safe and telephone the number in Warsaw that is given on the website.

Todays conversation with the office in Warsaw:-

me: Hello is that the department for foriegners.

office: yes, how can I help you

me: I have lived here in Poland now for over 6 years and my 5 year residence permit is due to expire in December. I read on the government website that I qualify for permanent residence after 5 years, what do I need to do to get the permanent card.

office: You have the wrong number, the number is the same but the last 3 digits are ***

me: Thank you. (I dial the number given)

office:yes, how can I help you

me: I have lived here in Poland now for over 6 years and my 5 year residence permit is due to expire in December. I read on the government website that I qualify for permanent residence after 5 years, what do I need to do to get the permanent card.

office: You have the wrong number, the number is the same but the last 3 digits are ***

me: Thank you. (I dial the new number given)

me: Hello is that the department for foriegners.

office:yes, how can I help you

me: I have lived here in Poland now for over 6 years and my 5 year residence permit is due to expire in December. I read on the government website that I qualify for permanent residence after 5 years, what do I need to do to get the permanent card.

office: You need to apply.

me: What forms do I need and where do I need to send these forms? Do I use the same form as the one for the 5 year residence permit?

office: Yes, and you need a photocopy of your passport, copy of meldunuk and 5 passport sized photo's.

me: So, I need to send them the same documents that I sent them 5 years ago?

office:Yes

me: And to what address do I send these documents?

office: Where do you live?

me: I live in Malopolska

office: In that case you will need to send your documents to Krakow.

me: Do I send them to the same office as for the 5 year permit?, in Ul.Sebastiana?

office: I don't know. you will have to look it up on the internet.

me: I have already looked on the internet and the only address given, is in Warsaw, that is why I am phoning you.

office: I will try and find out for you.

4 pieces of classical music later..........I can hear frantic voices in the background..........

office: You need to send it to Ul.Przy-Rondza 6, 33-550.

me: To what department?

office: I don't know. I will try and find out for you.

4 pieces of classical music later..........I can hear frantic voices in the background..........

office: The department is the voivodeship of Malopolska

me: Thank you, you have been most helpful.

I put the phone down with a big smile on my face and then realize...............

S**t!!!!!!! I forgot to ask if there was a fee for this!!!!!!........sob...sob.....sob
love_sunil80 14 | 127
26 Mar 2010 #11
Merged:How to Extend Karta Pobytu in Poland??

Ways to extend karta pobytu in Poland for a student other then studies :) Please post your comments here. Please suggest the best city in Poland to extend karta pobytu, I mean city where it is much easier when it comes to procedures and rules. Thanks.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
26 Mar 2010 #12
Ways to extend karta pobytu in Poland for a student other then studies :)

There's no way. You either get yourself a job (and work permit), or you leave. Or of course, you can carry on studying - your choice.

Please suggest the best city in Poland to extend karta pobytu, I mean city where it is much easier when it comes to procedures and rules. Thanks.

There's no difference, the rules are set centrally. Things like the amount of money a student needs to have is all set down in law - provinces can't deviate from it. They do tend to have some flexibility for EU citizens, but forget it if you're a non-EU national.

Basically - if you aren't studying and you can't get a work permit, it's time to leave.
love_sunil80 14 | 127
26 Mar 2010 #13
what about opening a firm or opening a company? This is also an option for Non-EU. Someone who have knowledge of getting karta pobytu for Non-Eu on the basis of opening a company can be a great help. Thanks
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
26 Mar 2010 #14
Being self employed is a non-starter for the vast majority of non-EU citizens.

Being employed by a Sp z o.o is doable in theory, but you still have to meet the financial and other criteria. One thing to bear in mind is that as far as I'm aware, simply owning a Sp. z o.o isn't enough to meet the requirements for a Karta Pobytu - you'll need to still have a work contract, health insurance and meet financial requirements. They can and will check out what the company is doing.

Trust me, Poland is not kind towards non-EU nationals seeking residency.

Are you trying to find a way to stay in Poland?
love_sunil80 14 | 127
17 Jul 2010 #15
Thread attached on merging:
Karta Stalego Pobytu

Can anyone help me with the information about karta stalego pobytu. I would like to know about how one can qualify for karta stalego pobytu. I appreciate everyones help and contribution.
jablko - | 106
17 Jul 2010 #16
I think you would have to live in Poland for 5 years to get that.
landora - | 199
17 Jul 2010 #17
Can anyone help me with the information about karta stalego pobytu.

Five years of residence, with a full checkable work history is the basic requirement. As I remember, you're allowed six months break in that time in total in regards to employment.

Time spent as a student doesn't count towards this total - you need to be in full time employment.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
17 Jul 2010 #18
landora

you need to be in full time employment.

Not technically correct. I received mine in April and I have not worked since 2004. I have only had a NIP number for the past year. Maybe the authourities have treated me as an exception but it seems that you get told different, criteria requirements, whichever office you contact.
skibum 8 | 62
22 Sep 2010 #19
I now have something called a ZASWIADCZENIE O ZAREJESTROWANIU POBYTU OBYWATELA UNII EUROPEJSKIEJ, but i'm told this is neither a 5 year zameldowanie nor a Karta pobytu.

Can anyone tell me what it is that i had to sacrifice a rain forest to get?

And what is my next step towards a Pesel?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
22 Sep 2010 #20
I now have something called a ZASWIADCZENIE O ZAREJESTROWANIU POBYTU OBYWATELA UNII EUROPEJSKIEJ, but i'm told this is neither a 5 year zameldowanie nor a Karta pobytu.

It is, technically speaking, a piece of paper that confirms your right to stay as a European Union citizen. It's not a Karta Pobytu, but it functions as one to all practical extents. The only irritating part is that it's a piece of paper rather than a card, but that's a minor grumble.

For the 5 year zameldowanie, go back to the Urząd Miasta, de-register and re-register - the EU residence card gives you the right to 5 years registration of address. And once they give you the 5 year zameldowanie, the PESEL (make sure to ask) will follow in a couple of weeks - you just go back in 2 weeks and they'll stamp the 5 year zameldowanie with the PESEL.
RtR - | 5
30 Jun 2011 #21
Karta pobytu technicality

Precisely 45 days before the expiration of my karta pobytu, I reapplied for a new one. I submitted everything, but the woman accepting the documents took issue with my photographs. As it was already in the evening and most photography stores were closed, she told me to simply come back in a week. I did so and gave the person working that day the new photographs (there wasn't much of a difference in the photos except that they slighly zoomed in on my face). He then proceeded to hand me a paper dated seven days after I orignally submitted my application. My karta pobytu expires very, very soon. Does anyone know if I can still receive a visa extension even though the official dated the paper a week after I originally submitted it?
Harry
30 Jun 2011 #22
Been there, done that (although with mine the problem was that part of the 'wrong' ear' could be seen).

Basically, just don't draw any attention to yourself, don't get pulled by the police, don't attempt to leave the country and don't do anything which would necessitate showing a karta pobytu: you'll be fine for the extra week.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
30 Jun 2011 #23
Got stopped by the police last week Thursday and when I together with my car documents showed the officer my Karta Pobytu (I have the pink one for permanent residency), he asked what that document was :)
Forex 1 | 3
21 Jan 2013 #24
Merged:Specific questions about Karta Pobytu?.

Hello Polish forum,

I know there are lots of posts related to Karta Pobytu in the forum but I couldn't find any answer to my specific question about Karta Pobytu.

My friend plans to apply for Karta Pobytu to extend his stay in Poland. It is going to be extension of study.
We know so far that he needs to collect,
1) 4 copies of a filled in form of application for granting a residence permit for a fixed period (1 original and 3 photocopies),
2) 4 up-to-date photographs (1 additional photograph to issue a residence card),
3) a photocopy of a valid travel document and the original document for inspection 2,
4) stamp duty payment confirmation,
5) a legal title to stay in the apartment in which a foreigner resides or intends to reside.
6) birth certificate (persons applying for permit for the first time),
7) certificate confirming that a foreigner has performed his/her duty to report his/her place of residence,
8) a document confirming that a foreigner has a medical insurance,
9) documents confirming that a foreigner has a stable and regular source of income,
10) confirmation of participation in studies, a vocational training or internship.

Questions,
1) What is a required size for photographs? The same angle and size as passport?
2) Do all documents have to be in Polish language?
3) My friend bought a medical insurance in USA which covers till this September, is it a too-short term to gain Karta Pobytu? Is it possible for non'EU citizen to buy a medical insurance in Poland?

That's all I have now. I will post again if I get new questions.
Thank you for stopping by.
I hope I will get some help from you guys.

Regards.
Gane 1 | 1
23 Jan 2013 #25
Merged: EXTENDING MY KARTA POBITY ???

Hi everybody ,
does anybody knows the procedures for extending my Karta Pobity . THANKS A LOT .
Olaf 6 | 956
5 Feb 2013 #26
Specific questions about Karta Pobytu?.

1) Yes the biometric ones like in passport: up-to-date, 35 x 45 mm size, bright background , 70-80 % of the photo should be your face; no hats, rather no glasses.

2) Yes. You always provide documents in the official language of a country, don't you.
3) You can buy insurance here. Also your friend's insurance should be enough provided that it covers Poland too. Best is to have a work contract, then you are automatically paying health insurance and you are covered by national healt fund and it's enough.
Forex 1 | 3
23 Feb 2013 #27
Hello Olfa, thank you for your reply. It's really helpful. The governmental office for foreigners should be more accurate. Though glad that I can get people like you to grab clear info.
Olaf 6 | 956
24 Apr 2013 #28
Hey. Glad to help!
kk1984 - | 1
5 May 2013 #29
Merged: Polish karta pobytu investigation processes

Does any one has any knowledge with regards the Polish karta pobytu investigation processes for a person who is married to a polish citizen, but submited his/her application through a polish consulate abroad?
jbells
23 Jun 2014 #30
Merged:Karta Pobytu renewal problem ( Non-EU living in Poland )

I am a Malaysian in Poland, living on a temporary karta pobytu that lasts a year, so for two years now, I've had to renew the karta pobytu before the 20th of December. The problem with this is that over the summer, I will not be in Poland, and will only return in October. Upon returning, I will have to begin the process of renewing my insurance and obtaining other documents in order to apply for a new karta pobytu, which is too hurried for me (last December, my old card expired before I even received my new one).

My question is, is there any other way for me to get around this problem? I have been told that with my Malaysian passport, I can fly to the UK to obtain a stamp that allows me to travel Europe for 60 days. In a hypothetical situation where I fly into the UK on the 15th of December, could I fly back into Poland legally after the 20th and live here legally?


Home / Law / Non-EU country citizen on tourist visa - could anyone help me with Karta Pobytu?
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