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CHINESE TO BUILD POLISH ROADS....


wildrover 98 | 4,451
17 Sep 2009 #1
I see on the news that the Chinese have won a contract to build roads around Warsaw by offering to build them at a very much lower cost.....Are these roads going to be of good quality i wonder , or are they going to need expensive repairs not long after construction...?

Many people in Poland seem quite happy to buy rubbish , so long as its cheap...are they making this mistake with these roads..?

The Chinese company have said they will employ Polish workers to build these roads , but its suspected by many , that they will ship in cheap unskilled Chinese workers to do the job....
Harry
17 Sep 2009 #2
are they going to need expensive repairs not long after construction...?

That's what my money would be on.

they will ship in cheap unskilled Chinese workers to do the job....

And on that too.

For those interested, here's a link.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8259153.stm
dnz 17 | 710
17 Sep 2009 #3
I reckon even the chinese would do a better job of building the roads than the Poles, They couldn't even manage to get that little stretch of autostrada right between nowy tomysl and Poznan and now it has to be rebuilt.

It seems that the people who work on the roads don't give a **** what the finished product looks like and the companies that oversee these projects are riddled with corruption which doesn't make for a good finished product,

they should get the japanese in to build the roads, If they can renew an entire motorway overnight after an earthquake they should be able to build the entire motorway network here in lets say, a month?
sledz 23 | 2,250
17 Sep 2009 #4
Many people in Poland seem quite happy to buy rubbish , so long as its cheap...are they making this mistake with these roads..?

Have you every bought any Chinese tools???

They break rather quickly along with most of all the other products they produce.

The saying is true "You get what you pay for"

or are they going to need expensive repairs not long after construction...?

Save a few zolty now or pay alot more in the future?

Why cant the Polish build thier own roads?

They couldn't even manage to get that little stretch of autostrada right between nowy tomysl and Poznan and now it has to be rebuilt.

Yeah I guess they would milk the job out for every penny its worth and it would take them forever to build and be over budget.
Juche 9 | 292
17 Sep 2009 #5
I reckon even the chinese would do a better job of building the roads than the Poles

har har how true..now what you need in Poland is some vigourous North Korean labour, refined by years of correct social work ethics!
sledz 23 | 2,250
17 Sep 2009 #6
what you need in Poland is some vigourous North Korean labour

Im sure they are harder working than Poles are..lol

We can send you some Mexicans over, they work cheap:)
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451
17 Sep 2009 #7
Have you every bought any Chinese tools???

No...and i don,t intend to....I don,t want this to turn into an anti Chinese thread , but the fact is , Chinese goods are cheaper because they are made by unskilled labour , using cheap materials , so the finished product is not the same quality as say a Japanese one....

Take for example the Chinese made scooters that seem popular in Poland , ok , they are cheaper to buy than the Japanese version , but within a year they are in need of repair....forget taking it back to the dealer you bought it from , they won,t have any spare parts , and if you do manage to repair it , the problem will be back soon after... No decent mechanic wants to do any work on one , as the client will soon be back , complaining its broken again....

Much better to pay a bit extra for a second hand Japanese machine that will last you five years without problem , spares are available from any dealer that sells them , and mechanics are happy to work on them.....

I am begining to think some Poles would buy dogshit if it was a bargain price....! Last week i was looking around a toyshop in Koszalin , every single toy i looked at was made in China , surely they are people in Poland with money who want to pay a bit extra for toys that won,t fall to bits within a week , or poisen their kids.....??
sledz 23 | 2,250
17 Sep 2009 #8
Much better to pay a bit extra for a second hand Japanese machine that will last you five years without problem , spares are available from any dealer that sells them , and mechanics are happy to work on them

I agree with that, nobody can deny that the Japanese make excellent products.

Why import labor when theres a whole work force in Poland looking for jobs?

Maybe the construction company doesnt want to pay a decent wage for hard work?

I wouldnt want to do it either unless the pay was decent enough to live off .

every single toy i looked at was made in China

its getting like that In America, I try to advoid Chinese products but its getting harder and harder???

or poisen their kids.....??

I think our Baked Bean stash is safe though:)
roalex 13 | 40
17 Sep 2009 #9
I currently live in Taiwan. I know not quite the same as China but to the uninformed it all seems the same. At any rate Taiwanese/Chinese workers tend to work much faster and and for longer periods of time. Construction projects rarely stop for weekend breaks. They keep going 7 days a week and even on national holidays. And on some occasions they will do 24hr shifts. The last time I was in Poland (April 2009) I was shocked to see the slow pace of the build up of roads. In particular the Autostrada. Although I do think the roads being built by the Poles are of top quality.

On the other hand Chinese labour does come at the price of low quality construction. I would suspect that if a good Quality Control Engineer were on site he/she would delay the construction of the road numerous times. Simply due to shoddy construction techniques. Having said that it is still possible that the Chinese could pull off some awesome work. If they put as much effort into Polish roads as they did the Olympics then we'd be driving on gold all the way to Berlin.

Not to sure what that last bit is supposed to mean but hopefully you get my drift.
krysia 23 | 3,058
17 Sep 2009 #10
surely they are people in Poland with money who want to pay a bit extra for toys that won,t

If they can find any...
Every toy breaks after a while, some kids play rougher than others regardless what country makes them. Toys are toys, can't keep them forever when the child outgrows them. It's good they break, otherwise they clutter up the house. LOL

Poland hired the Chinese to build road because they know they will get built and ready for the olympics. The way Poles work, they would never be done on time. Maybe they can learn a few tricks from the Chinese how to build a better mouse trap.
jwojcie 2 | 763
17 Sep 2009 #11
.Are these roads going to be of good quality i wonder , or are they going to need expensive repairs not long after construction...?

Have you ever driven on Chinese roads? I think that we need contribution from someone who did... I wouldn't put in the same basket Chinese toys and Chinese builders, at least not yet :-)

One thing good in this now is that other companies miraculously find out, that they too can build much cheaper...

PS. If you are really interested in current road projects in Poland look here: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=441854&page=166

Is it not so black and white like some of you want to see this.

PS2.

I currently live in Taiwan

Roalex, can you tell us what is the quality of new highways in China ?

PS3. I love this site :-) Chinese highways, new stuff don't look bad: skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=154903&page=20&highligh t=chinese+highway
magdalenaG 2 | 67
17 Sep 2009 #12
I lived in Shanghai for 2 years ( what a fun time we had ) ...
During my two years there I lived in 3 different apartments ( all brand spanking new when we moved in) ... but as the workmanship was so poor ( plaster falling off walls, no electricity supply etc ) we were forced to move to a new unit every six months or so ..

they are an absolute disaster !
krysia 23 | 3,058
17 Sep 2009 #13
but as the workmanship was so poor

They'll fit right in then
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,786
17 Sep 2009 #14
Chinese are famous for cheap work, not durable or correct work...
But it's understandable - cheapness comes for a high price in the end (accidents, deaths, forced re-building etc.)!
magdalenaG 2 | 67
17 Sep 2009 #15
Yep.. I can't wait 'til they get started here ..they are so funny to watch , they just haven't a f**cking clue.
polishcanuck 7 | 462
17 Sep 2009 #16
There are also indications that the Polish authorities are using Chinese bidders to drive down costs.

When Warsaw felt the bids for its new underground train line were too high, it got the Chinese to bid.

The Chinese did not win that time, but their competitors slashed their prices drastically in response.

It has been called the "Chinese effect", says Michael Dembinski of the British-Polish Chamber of Commerce.

Smart money saving tactics ... but with the chinese??? They do make poor quality products but the russians in the far east (yakutsk, irkutsk etc) prefer to employ chinese migrant workers to build their infrastructure over the local russians because they work for less and produce better quality buildings.

On the other hand if you employ poles they will also do a ****** job because they want the roads/buildings to break down so they have to come back - creating job security i guess :) Also they will work slowly because "whether they work or not, they will get their 2000zl" (sorry can't remember how that saying goes exactly).

Tough situation.
roalex 13 | 40
18 Sep 2009 #17
On September 21 1999 there was a very large magnitude earthquake in Taiwan. Which resulted in a lot of deaths. The reason was due to shoddy construction techniques. It was found out after the quake that builder were filling walls with empty coffee cans instead of concrete and rebar.

As fir the state of roads in Taiwan I would say the highways here a very good. But the inner city roads can be at times quite crap!! I honestly think that the trucks out here are way better than anything you can get in America. Simply because of the crap quality of some of the roads.
Paulie 1 | 43
18 Sep 2009 #18
New roads in Poland, or any EU country are built to a very well defined specification for quality of workmanship and materials. The Chinese contractor would have priced against this specification under competitive tender. The client, in this case is the Polish Government (unless it is a PPP/PFI), will be obligated under the same to inspect and verify every agreed interim stage of construction.

The Chinese contractor will be cheaper, largely because they will bring their own labour. Speaking from my own experience, quality of workmanship in China is ok, so long as it is properly supervised. Problems will always arise when unrealistic construction delivery programmes result in the employment of unsupervised inferior skilled workers.
mocpc - | 5
26 Sep 2009 #19
As a Chinese sanitary ware manufacturer, I don’t know what to say after watching the above points. In your eyes, China is a country that just making crap, now I can tell you that is not true.

Yes, our Chinese products is cheap, and to some extent, they are not so durable. But, have you already think about the question why they are not cheap and not durable? Of course, big population provide cheap labor, but the most important reason is that wholesalers in your own countries import from China ask for discount for too much. They send enquiries to hundreds of Chinese manufactures, and hundreds Chinese suppliers send price lists for their reference, then the importers choose the lowest ones from the hundreds suppliers. In order to survive, Chinese suppliers must cut down their price, so relatively low quality raw materials must be used, we have an old saying: we get what we pay for. We have another old saying: you cannot get fish and the bear hand at the same time, that means you must scarify something when you get other thing. So do not hold the idea to get good quality goods with very low price

Back to the road thing, the construction companies sent out generally are state-owned enterprises, so what they do overseas stands for the country image, we Chinese attach great importance to the self-image, so we will not do something damaging our own image outside.

Well, at the end, I would like to ask all friends here to look China from an overall angle but not just peek from a hole.
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451
26 Sep 2009 #20
sanitary ware manufacturer,

I guess you have to deal with a lot of crap in that business....?
mocpc - | 5
26 Sep 2009 #21
wildrover
I guess you do not understand what i said above
please go back to read it again,my friend
Torq 26 | 2,371
26 Sep 2009 #22
I would like to ask all friends here to look China from an overall
angle but not just peek from a hole.

Those roads better be good or I'll pick YOUR hole! ;-)
anton888 - | 82
26 Sep 2009 #23
I think outsoursing project to foreign company can at least prevent the usual pratice of someone 'taking' the building material for own use and make up the differece in other kind of cheap material (sand in stead if cement). You can see the roads in Poland are far worst quality compare to the road Polish companies built aboard. When you are dealing with foreign authroies to build this kind of project, in principle is much more difficult to cheat, much more control and concequences.

The poor quality of roads in Poland and those apartments in China which need to be fix in 6 months are both products of incorrect bulding materials, not too much about the building techniques. As long as there will be corruption in local authories, you can expect more this kind of product. Is not the Japanese or Scandinavian know how to build better, only their society is less corrupt.

China produce cheap and poor quality products becuase importer in other countries buy them. We have huge population, can not afford to be picky in choosing clients, so we produce the selling price with equal quality (yes, some cases are worst).

Chinese government wanted this project because after the olipmics there are many workers with good experience available, so is an idea to keep them busy even if the project will not bring in profit (China don't really need it), is a better way to handle this issue than just give some benefits to keep alive or assign these workers to a completely new job, now they are keeping and improving their skills.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,500
26 Sep 2009 #24
Dunno about roads but they are very good at building walls apparently.
Zachariah 1 | 26
26 Sep 2009 #25
Making consumer products is one thing, capital works is another. Go to Shanghai and you will be impressed with the roads, bridges and buildings etc.

I have no doubt the Chinese will do a good job. Btw much is the contract worth?
southern 75 | 7,096
26 Sep 2009 #26
now what you need in Poland is some vigourous North Korean labour, refined by years of correct social work ethics!

I am afraid they will prefer to stay in the socialist paradise.
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451
26 Sep 2009 #27
I guess you do not understand what i said above

And i guess you didn,t understand what i said.....????
mocpc - | 5
27 Sep 2009 #28
wildrover

Do you think that the only one for the poor quality should be blamed is the Chinese?
why Chinese produce poor quality products?
are we willing to produce them?
to a large extent, the importers in your country ask for them,though they do not say like that
good quality is needed, low price is needed
where can you find that kind of products?
of course, if you think Chinese goods cannot meet your so called high quality life style
you have many other choices
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
27 Sep 2009 #29
They can't build crayons well and they wanna build roads, don't think so
Wroclaw Boy
27 Sep 2009 #30
Why cant the Polish build thier own roads?

Because theyve been doing it for 100's of years and still havent learned the proper methods.


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