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z, ze and verbs - Genitive


Semsem 16 | 26
7 May 2010 #1
I read that each one is used in different ways with regards to the genitive. Anyone care to help me with understanding how each one is used?

Also, I know a lot of verbs need the noun in genitive, but not all of them. Are there any rules on how to tell which verbs do and don't?
Lyzko
7 May 2010 #2
If your questions concerns 'z', resp. 'z(e)', this single preposition (also used sometimes as a perfective verb prefix!) can be both genitive or instrumental, naturally depending on the context-:) For instance:

Jestem z Polski. = I am from Poland (genitive)

Hiszpania razem z Polską jest największym kraju w EU. = Spain together with Poland is the largest country in the EU. (instrumental)

On przybywał ze swoimi rodzicami. = He arrived with his parents. (instrumental)

The 'zE' is written/spoken with a final 'e' in order to elide the vowel with the following sibilant 's'.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
7 May 2010 #3
Semsem

PWN dictionary:

ze forma partykuły: z, używana najczęściej przed wyrazami zaczynającymi się od grupy spółgłosek: Dostaniesz za to ze dwa tysiące. Zatrudni ze trzydziestu mężczyzn.

ze the form of the particle z, most often used before words beginning with consonants clasters, e.g.: Dostaniesz za to ze dwa tysiące. Zatrudni ze trzydziestu mężczyzn.

So, the only reason for using it is to facilitate the pronounciation of otherwise unpronounceable clusters of consonants.
Lyzko
7 May 2010 #4
Whhoopsidaisy!!!

"....największym krajEM...."

-:))
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
7 May 2010 #5
Ze is only used when z would make a difficult combination with the first letters of the next word.
They mean exactly the same, and behave the same grammatically.

It's the same with w and we. To make the next word easier to pronounce.

---------------------------------------------------

Z (and ze) governs genitive when it means of and from. It governs instrumental when it means with.

On jest z Polski. <---> He's from Poland. (gen.)
Mieszkam z moim bratem. <---> I live with my brother. (instr.)
Lyzko
8 May 2010 #6
Indeed, almost verbatim what I posted above:-)
Thanks though for the confirmation and sorry again for the silly typo LOL
catsoldier 62 | 595
27 Nov 2011 #7
How do you change stoły, plural for tables to genitve? What are the rules?

Stół, singular changes to stołu. Nie ma stołu.
strzyga 2 | 993
27 Nov 2011 #8
Nie ma stołów.
catsoldier 62 | 595
27 Nov 2011 #9
Thanks.

When do you use z like woda z kranu and when do you use od like od krzesła?

You also have z Krakowa, how are Kraków and kran alike and different from krzesła, is it just a pronunciation thing?

Thanks.
cinek 2 | 345
21 Jun 2012 #10
Z(e) is used as: 'from inside of something' or 'off something'.
Od means:
- 'from something's proximity' or
- 'from the direction of something' or
- 'from someone's possesstion into other's possession'

e.g.
On przyjechał z Krakowa - he came from Kraków (he was in (inside) Kraków)
on przyjechał od Krakowa - he came from the direction of Kraków (we dont' knoe where he was, but probably close to Kraków)

zejdź ze stołu - get off the table (he is sitting on it)
odejdź od stołu - get away of the table (he's standing next to it)

Notice the preposition - prefix aggreement here: odejdź od, zejdź ze

I hope this makes it a little bit easier.

Cinek
catsoldier 62 | 595
21 Jun 2012 #11
Hi Cinek, thanks for that, the Krakow example is very good.


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