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Usage: Freedom in Polish and in English


strzyga 2 | 993
23 Jan 2010 #1
In Polish the same word means "free" nad "slow": wolny.
So wolnomyśliciel - a free thinker - may also be a slow thinker :)
You're free when you don't have to hurry.

In English, the same word "free" means free as not bound and free as something you don't have to pay for.
So you're free when you don't have to pay.

How's that in other languages?
Lyzko
23 Jan 2010 #2
Is there a relationship in Polish between 'wolny' and 'powoli'?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
23 Jan 2010 #3
How's that in other languages?

In Swedish we have 4 different words, and there aren't any ambiguous meanings.

Gratis = Sth you don't have to pay for
Ledig = Not occupied
Fri = Not bound
Långsam = Slow
EchoTheCat - | 137
23 Jan 2010 #4
So wolnomyśliciel - a free thinker - may also be a slow thinker :)

That's is not true. Wolnomysliciel have only one meaning. Do you use "wolnomysliciel" to tell abouth somebody that they think slow ???

Is there a relationship in Polish between 'wolny' and 'powoli'?

wolny = free
powolny/powoli =slow
OP strzyga 2 | 993
23 Jan 2010 #5
Do you use "wolnomysliciel" to tell abouth somebody that they think slow ???

Yes, I do. Not quite seriously though...

Ledig = Not occupied

oh, right, that is "wolny" too.
Looks like Swedish is a very precise language.

Is there a relationship in Polish between 'wolny' and 'powoli'?

Yes, it's the same stem "wol", related also to "wola" - will.
Wolny is an adjective and powoli is an adverb.
Wolny=powolny.
Wolno=powoli.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
23 Jan 2010 #6
Looks like Swedish is a very precise language.

Actually no. And when it comes to grammar, Swedish is much more simplified, generalized and ambiguous than Polish.
Lyzko
23 Jan 2010 #7
In German: frei = free (of time, not money!)
ledig = single (free from marriage)
kostenlos = free of charge or similar encumbrances)
ungebunden = unbound(ed) or free of earthly restraints

-:)
OP strzyga 2 | 993
23 Jan 2010 #8
ledig = single (free from marriage)

Ledig = Not occupied

Excuse me, is this seat free from marriage? :)

ungebunden = unbound(ed) or free of earthly restraints

Then shouldn't the (in)famous Arbeit macht frei be rather Arbeit macht ungebunden?

Lots of fascinating stuff here.
If you add to this that "powolny" may also mean "obedient..." hmm.

And when it comes to grammar, Swedish is much more simplified, generalized and ambiguous than Polish.

Then I like it even more. I started to like it when I came across the word "armbandklokka" (spelling?) and I could immediately understand it. Though I suppose it's not all wine and roses.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,210
23 Jan 2010 #9
Wolnomyśliciel = free thinker
Wolno myślący = slow thinker
There are a number of colloqiual expressions for describing "slow thinkers" in every language, I believe. One in Polish that comes to my mind is "zakuta pała". Any other ideas?
Sasha 2 | 1,083
23 Jan 2010 #10
Långsam = Slow

God kväll, min vän! Vad är "sakta" då? :) Finns det något för skillnad mellan de två?

Russian:

- wolny (вольный) - free mostly about a man but you can also say it about let's say wind (volny veter, вольный ветер)

- swobodny (свободный) - free about people (including their relationship and marital status) but also a (rest)room (if it's occupied or not). Swoboda slowa (Свобода слова) - freedom of speech.

- besplatny - something you don't have to pay for. bez (без) - without. platit(платить)=to pay.

- we also use a noun "haliava" (халява)=freeby

- for those who think slow we mostly use the word "tugodum" (тугодум). It's a noun. Dumat=to think. tugoy (adjective)=tight, tough

- strzyga

As far as I see you're not originally from Poland. Where are you from? :)
UPD:

Excuse me, is this seat free from marriage? :)

AFAIK, it's somewhat of a false-friend for those who switched from German to Swedish (as I did). To the best of my knowledge ledig is only about seats, jobs etc.

For "single" they use "ogift". vara gift=be married. For divorced "skild".
Let's wait Sweda v Polshe.

P.S. en armbandsklocka :)
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
23 Jan 2010 #11
God kväll, min vän! Vad är "sakta" då? :) Finns det något för skillnad mellan de två?

God kväll!

Långsam (pl. långsamma) = adjective
Långsamt = adverb

Sakta = adverb
There is no corresponding adjective to sakta.

As you know, an adjective describes how something/someone is (refers to a noun). An adverb describes how something is done (refers to a verb).

Långsamt and sakta means exactly the same.
Lyzko
23 Jan 2010 #12
'Sakta' is related to 'sachte' in German and means 'at a leisurely pace', not necessarily dawdling, yet not hasty either. 'Gentle' (e.g. 'a gentle breeze'!) also comes to mind in both Swedish as well as German (..the latter may be one of those tricky false friends though.)

Polish 'powoli' sounds too as if it's related to 'wolno' or 'to be allowed'. I'm probably mistaken here however.

Polish 'single' = nieżonaty (for men)
Sasha 2 | 1,083
23 Jan 2010 #13
Thanks for the explanation! :) That crossed my mind but here they marked it as an adjective for some reason. That confused me.

Polish 'single' = nieżonaty (for men)

You can say "nezaniaty" in Russian too but it would sound too informal. The formal one is "nezhenaty".
OP strzyga 2 | 993
23 Jan 2010 #14
As far as I see you're not originally from Poland. Where are you from? :)

I'm from Poland, born, brought up and living here. Why do you think I'm not? :)

Polish 'single' = nieżonaty (for men)

Or wolny/wolna again...

Polish 'powoli' sounds too as if it's related to 'wolno' or 'to be allowed'. I'm probably mistaken here however.

You're not mistaken.
I'm still puzzled by the relation between freedom and speed, or lack of it.
Lyzko
23 Jan 2010 #15
One of many false friends, Sasha. Or how about Polish 'pismo' vs. Russian 'pismo', Polish 'godzina' vs. Russian 'godzin' and the list goes on......

Every language I know (and that's a number, roundabout seven, I guesstimate) has its false friends. In Dutch 'funeral' (uitvaart) sounds lexically like 'highway exit' in German (Ausfahrt). Interesting connection, huh?
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
23 Jan 2010 #16
Thanks for the explanation! :) That crossed my mind but here they marked it as an adjective for some reason. That confused me.

It was listed there as both an adjective and an adverb. But it's incorrect.

Can we stick to the language of the Forum, please.
OP strzyga 2 | 993
24 Jan 2010 #17
"zakuta pała". Any other ideas?

inteligentny inaczej
Derevon 12 | 172
24 Jan 2010 #18
I'm not sure I can give any concrete examples, but it's very common that I don't understand Polish sentences even when I know all the words in them. In part that's because Polish has different constructions that don't translate well for grammar reasons, but I also have a feeling that more things are omitted in Polish, and that you have to piece more things together from the context.

In proper writing there's usually no problem, but when talking, people use more cryptic (in my opinion) expressions. For example, my Polish girlfriend's mother once gave me a pair of gloves, and she asked, "trafny?", and even though I know what this word means I really had no idea what she meant. Such things happen way too often. When her parents speak normally I don't understand much at all, but when her father was reading some text out loud from somewhere, I understood almost everything.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
24 Jan 2010 #19
I think your conclusion is pretty accurate, Swedish (and Norwegian) is straight to the point, even when compared to English.

It's probably a leftover from the less-than-courtious Viking days. When Halfdor courted Ragnhild "their" conversation sounded sort of like this: "ARGH! - you woman - my wife - N O W !!! - ARGH!" Obviously very much to the point...

Ah the good 'ole days... ;)

Not sure about the word en sakta - makes no sense to me at all.

Maybe you meant sakta ner = slow down?

In your earlier example en sakta vind = a slow wind - en is simply the Swedish (Norwegian) equivalent of the English a.

(there are two forms en and ett - mean the same thing).

Clear as mud? LOL
Derevon 12 | 172
24 Jan 2010 #20
"En sakta vind" Google Translate translates to "a gentle breeze", which is probably the best possible rendering of what is intended. It's literary language, though. With "en sakta" I simply implied that if "sakta" was merely an adverb, it wouldn't be used together with the article "en". I should have translated that.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
24 Jan 2010 #21
Got ya. Yeah, gentle breeze is correct.

"En sakta vind" sounds very foreign in itself. We'd probably say something like "en mild vind (bris)" but now I see your poäng. ;)
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
24 Jan 2010 #22
How's that in other languages?

Can we stick to the language of the Forum, please.

Read the initial post.

En sakta vind

As I said before, it's incorrect because sakta is an adverb, not an adjective.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
24 Jan 2010 #23
Read the initial post.

it doesn't say change the topic to swedish only.
Lyzko
24 Jan 2010 #24
Correct, Derevon. 'Sachte' in German is purely literary language nowadays or Northern dialect. In the Standard language, it would sound like 'prithee' or something hopelessly outdated in English.

Does it have a Polish equivalent? Probably. I just don't remember what it is (...if I actually ever even knew!)
TheOther 6 | 3,821
24 Jan 2010 #25
'Sakta' is related to 'sachte' in German and means 'at a leisurely pace',

FWIW: 'Sachte' in German can also mean 'slow down / take it easy'.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
25 Jan 2010 #26
Does it have a Polish equivalent? Probably. I just don't remember what it is (...if I actually ever even knew!)

Wouldn't sakta (sachte) be equivalent to The Polish powoli?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,210
25 Jan 2010 #27
I'm not sure I can give any concrete examples, but it's very common that I don't understand Polish sentences even when I know all the words in them. In part that's because Polish has different constructions that don't translate well for grammar reasons, but I also have a feeling that more things are omitted in Polish, and that you have to piece more things together from the context.

I think you have the point here (especially in "more things are omitted in Polish"). As to the example you've given, I'd say she ought to say "trafny wybór?" to spare you the trouble of guessing as the adjecive trafny is mostly used with wybór (or the nouns resembling it in meaning, like osąd or decyzja).

[Your original post to which I asked my question to which you have given the answer being here in my quote above have been erased by the moderator. I am very surprised because of that as both post and question were neither in German nor in Swedish (nor were they in Finnish for that matter!), but they were in the language of the forum (English) and concerned the Polish language. God only knows what are the principles of moderating posts on PF!]
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
25 Jan 2010 #28
[Your original post to which I asked my question to which you have given the answer being here in my quote above have been erased by the moderator.

Aha! - so I'm not the only one confused on that subject :)

The lady who started the thread asked "How's that in other languages?" - so I gave examples of the Swedish and the Norwegian versions. Also made a few jokes.

Boom - my reply gets exiled to: This Random Thread seems to be really en vogue here
Lyzko
25 Jan 2010 #29
As far as the use of 'sachte' in contemporary German, once again, I've only heard it in Northern dialect, around the Berlin-Brandeburg area, not far from the Polish frontier. In literature too, it has a distinctly 'maerkisch' touch, something I'd find almost jarring coming our of the mouth of a Southerner, a Bavarian or a Swabian for example:-)
Peter Cracow
27 Nov 2011 #30
"Powolny" means also "posłuszny" - obedient.
"Badź mi powolny" - "Be under my will"/"Obey me"
It is a rare form last times.


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