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Ukrainian language similar to Polish?


Nathan 18 | 1,363
14 Jun 2011  #121
like my other cousin attended

It looks like you have cousins all over Ukraine and beyond and all of them live in villages and besides speaking Ukrainian, as you claim, they are happy to escape from Ukrainian classes, but obviously sit and listen as the Russian is being taught. Very interesting. What else, inventor? ;)

And what would be the problem with that?

Problem? Very simple: waste of time. I wish I was learning French or German then. One wants to expand his horizon, not limit.

Why would I speak it?

I didn't ask you to speak it. You claim that it is a single language, but you seem not to be intelligent enough to learn it. So, is it your weak brain capacities or maybe the languages are indeed different?

I suppose if my family haven't moved overseas some 20 years ago, I may have made more of an effort

I doubt it. Having so many cousins and no success. What would have changed? ;)

couldn't recognize a Russian accent by ear in that video?

I haven't seen the video. And not a bit interested.

I recommend you move to Ukraine, too - this way you'll learn to recognize "Russian" Ukrainians by their accents ;)

Very funny. I fell.

in the best interest of Ukraine, tell your friend Woon to start using translate.google (at least) and do not excuse his laziness and ignorance.

Antek, you are too serious. I bet Ukraine will be allright even if two of her sons anger the international relationship between our two countries by sabotaging the transliteration ;) Besides, you have Ukrainian blood and we are friends no matter what :) (gotta go, talk to you later)
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
14 Jun 2011  #122
Ukrainian blood

Romanian. So funny ;-)

Nat, just please... don't touch the language which is the sacred matter for all Poles (except fools, ignorants, so-called dyslectic etc.) You can understand it so far, I know.
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79
14 Jun 2011  #123
It looks like you have cousins all over Ukraine and beyond and all of them live in villages

Let me set you straight right here. I think my family is very typical of Ukraine, so maybe others will learn from this too.

My family is very large, because it comes from the rural central Ukraine, and back in the day having 10+ children was not out of the ordinary. So my grandparents had lots of siblings. That makes for a TON of third cousins. Some of that generation (having won the war against Hitler) got their careers going, "moved up" in life, settled in the cities and became "russified" (primarily for career purposes - you had to travel, you sometimes had to work in other parts of the country as far as Far East, etc.). Some stayed in selo (I don't want to say "village" here, because the concept of "selo" is quite unique to Ukraine - it's doesn't really mean a village as such, it means rural life in general). The same happened to the next generation (uncles and aunts) - some stayed in selo (remained primarily Ukrainian speaking) and some moved to cities (became Russian speaking). That's my second cousins. So as a result, you have a huge family in different degrees of language use - from Ukrainian only (like my cousin who was living in selo until she was admitted to a prestigious program in Kiev) to Russian only (like my other cousin from Zapirizhya whose grandparents started living in the city, so she was a lot more "russified", and didn't even take Ukrainian in school). Yet, all those children would go back to "selo" every summer and spend time with relatives and communicate with no problems, seamlessly. And yes, and some immigrated to the states ;) but that's a different story.

When you hate on "non-authentic" Ukrainians, you hate on people like that. So don't be surprised if they don't like you back ;)
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
14 Jun 2011  #124
Wiedzmin, I see there is a big disagreement between you and Nathan. Let me use some analogy. Let us assume half of Poland were inhabited by Upper Silesians. Moreover, everybody would travel freely. After some time, each nation would be able to fully understand the other. Still, both languages would remain separate languages. For example:

Sil: -- Wyciep ta flaszka po gorzole na hasiok!
Pl. -- Wyrzuć tę butelkę po wódce do śmietnika!
Eng. -- Throw that empty vodka bottle out to the dustbin!

Notice that almost all Silesian and Polish words in the example are different, and even grammar is different.

I see no difference between Ukrainian and Russian. These languages are different and some people may believe these are similar to each other. They are not.
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79
14 Jun 2011  #125
These languages are different and some people may believe these are similar to each other.

I see what you mean. When I say "one language" I mean it in the sense that the same people (the same family even!) use both to communicate in the same space, at the same time, and sometimes even switch/interchange between the two, mixing parts of sentences even. The grammar is similar, part of the vocabulary is overlapping, another part of vocabulary is just more used in one language than the other (but yes, there's a non-overlapping part too). I agree that technically it's two different languages. But it doesn't fell like it ;) I speak from experience, as I speak primarily English now. There's no comparison.
Velund 1 | 391
14 Jun 2011  #126
Russian media in Ukraine (tv, radio, magazine, movies etc) is a problem which must be changed to the Ukrainian language gradually over time.

Who will pay for this? ;) Who will pay for translation of films, and so on?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
15 Jun 2011  #127
szczeciniak: and then this?
more Polish or more Russian ?
That video again, ARRRGH! - you reposted the same video that Nathan (our "shanovni", supposedly authentic, zapadenski, anti-russian Ukrainian) shared a while ago.

Would you provide a link where I posted this video? Be honest enough not to avoid the answer and provide the link.

There's no terminology in Ukrainian for many modern professional fields.

Give me a few examples from any of these "many fields", please. You may use your Russian terminology which has the terminology. I'm hoping to receive the answer to both.
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79
15 Jun 2011  #128
Would you provide a link where I posted this video?

Sorry, I am not going to look (too much trouble). Perhaps, you can click on "my posts" in your menu and check yourself? You posted two videos, one is this one, the other was from sorochin'ska yarmarka IIRC. It was most likely in the society/culture section, because you talked about cultural/ethnic music promotion and revival. I remembered it because the russian accent in this one was just too funny ;)

a few examples from any of these "many fields"

IT. Engineering. Heavy industry. Whatever is not history/law/art/PR/etc.
Are you not aware of this problem yourself?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #129
IT. Engineering. Heavy industry. Whatever is not history/law/art/PR/etc.

that applies to other languages as well, so you have no argument.

I can bring many examples in Polish. Are you saying that no English terms are in these technologies in Russian?
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79
15 Jun 2011  #130
there are many Russified English and German terms, sure. what's your point?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #131
well, the same applies to Ukrainian, doesn't it?
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79
15 Jun 2011  #132
I don't understand, sorry. Please explain?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #133
Word for new technologies usually derived from English and other languages are used in Ukrainian.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
15 Jun 2011  #134
I see no difference between Ukrainian and Russian. These languages are different and some people may believe these are similar to each other. They are not.

They're definitely not similar at all.

Still, one thing that amazes me about Ukraine is the level of bilingualism - isn't it unique in Europe to have so many people able to use both languages interchangably?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
15 Jun 2011  #135
Sorry, I am not going to look (too much trouble).

Ok, lie number one.

IT. Engineering. Heavy industry. Whatever is not history/law/art/PR/etc.

I asked you to show me EXAMPLES OF TERMINOLOGICAL TERMS which are absent in Ukrainian professional fields and are in Russian. Concrete examples. Concrete words. Not repetition of what you said before. Read more careful of what I asked:

Give me a few examples from any of these "many fields", please.

I will be very greatful if you provide me with the answer.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
15 Jun 2011  #136
isn't it unique in Europe to have so many people able to use both languages interchangably?

Belgium? ;-)
Delph, I am sure I could think of several European countries or regions like that, only my mind does not work well today. How about Tirol in Italy, where people speak both German and Italian fluently everyday? I was there, I know, been working for tips at the petrol station of my Tirolese cousin uncle as a teen ;-)

I do not think a Ukrainian is bilingual. The Ukrainian speaks either Russian or Ukrainian or a mix.

What about Polish Silesia where a Silesian speaks pure Polish outdoor and pure Silesian indoor? ;) What about Beskyd highlander who speaks pure Czech at work, pure Polish after crossing the border with Poland, and his local lingo while drinking beer with neighbours?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #137
Belgium? ;-)

I was thinking about the same.

I do not think a Ukrainian is bilingual. The Ukrainian speaks either Russian or Ukrainian or a mi

well, you are wrong here. They are bilingual Antek. All of the inhabitans of former USSR are bilingual. I have a friend from Azarbajan and she spoke 2.

True that Ukrainian are not the only bilingual people, although I am Ukrainian and I speak 3;P
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
15 Jun 2011  #138
I was not talking acquired languages such as English, Aphro. I of course agree the Ukrainian language exists but on the other hand people saying Silesian or Kashubian languages are dialects (even such kind souls such as Seanus) make me white-hot of anger and you, a Ukrainian can understand perfectly why.

Don't you speak Ukrainian, Russian, Polish and English?
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #139
well, I personally have a different approach to languages, since for me it is the tool to communicate, and often on this thread and on PF, people try to give the language a political meaning, which I understand, but don't agree with. As for Silesian and Kashubian- those are separate languages too and my Ukrainian nationality has nothing to do with admitting the facts. I don't argue with facts.

Russian

Not Russian, although I took it in school in Poland for years, cannot say that I can speak it and understand it, even though I am fluent in Ukrainian - this alone proves that those are two different languages. I tried to speak Russian with the Russian store owner in Toronto, but I usually switched to Ukrainian and he understood. However, I would get by way better in Liviv then in Moscow:).

Many people in Western Ukraine speak and understand Polish too.

Last Sunday I was buying something from the Ukrainian guy in Szczecin and I switched to Ukrainian- no problem. On the other hand my attempts to speak Russian failed on other occasions.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
15 Jun 2011  #140
Belgium? ;-)

Not a chance, even their King doesn't speak Dutch! ;)

What about Polish Silesia where a Silesian speaks pure Polish outdoor and pure Silesian indoor? ;) What about Beskyd highlander who speaks pure Czech at work, pure Polish after crossing the border with Poland, and his local lingo while drinking beer with neighbours?

Well - I was thinking more in terms of the whole country, as opposed to parts of it.

All of the inhabitans of former USSR are bilingual.

What's interesting is when you look at the Polish/Russian minority in Lithuania - some of them are genuinely unable to use anything but their own tounge.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
15 Jun 2011  #141
Not a chance, even their King doesn't speak Dutch! ;)

I'd like to know from our Ukrainians if their top leaders can speak good Ukrainian today.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
15 Jun 2011  #142
They usually speak with their fists, no? ;)

Good question, though. I know that in Belarus, a lot of the top guys don't speak the language.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #143
What's interesting is when you look at the Polish/Russian minority in Lithuania - some of them are genuinely unable to use anything but their own tounge.

this must be a recent development since all of the inhabitants had to speak Russian - I guess it is political.

@Delph:

fist speak the best;). Janukowych should speak Ukrainian, but I am not sure. Juszczenko does for sure, so does Julia. As for the rest, I don't know.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
15 Jun 2011  #144
this must be a recent development since all of the inhabitants had to speak Russian - I guess it is political.

I think it's a problem with the younger generation (maybe late 20's at most) - as they never really had much contact with Russian.

Apparently, you'll often find older Balts struggling to understand each other rather than simply using Russian.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #145
I think it's a problem with the younger generation (maybe late 20's at most) - as they never really had much contact with Russian.

makes sense.
Antek:
this is Juszczenko, he speaks good Ukrainian, although with some Eastern accent, possibly Russian. I don't speak like that, nor does Nathan.
youtu.be/RFN_MZ7y_GY

Julia:
youtu.be/WIwUxAF3iKE

she has a really Russian accent.

Janukowych speaks Ukrainian here, but he switches to Rusian, I would say his Ukrainian is pretty good:
youtu.be/4NX4HJRzb6w
youtu.be/_ACkuJBE7Zw

judging by the above video, Julia is not that popular anymore;)
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
15 Jun 2011  #146
Ya vazhayu Vam schtschastya, kochania...
I'm loving it! ;-)

Aphro, I'd like to go and see Ukraine, especially the Ivano-Frankovsk region. How do you perceive Ukraine of today? Can I safely go there? You can make some comparison with Poland? I know this is little OT but when we are already at it..

Having some drink with Natan and perhaps a friendly fight would be reallty something! ;-)

Do we Poles need visa?

Just read what I wrote about Ukrainian myself just above ;-) Already Juszczenko has convinced me!

'Krysa" means "a rat" also in Czech ;-)

(However, I can understand Russian fluently, and I don't get as much of spoken Ukrainian).
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #147
Ya vazhayu Vam schtschastya, kochania...
I'm loving it! ;-)

bazhaju- bazhaty - is to wish. If you speak Russian, you would have no problem and Ukrainian people are very hospitable.

Aphro, I'd like to go and see Ukraine, especially the Ivano-Frankovsk region. How do you perceive Ukraine of today? Can I safely go there? You can make some comparison with Poland? I know this is little OT but when we are already at it..

go for it, I have not been recently, but my cousin travels there it is fine. It is save from what I hear, although the roads are bad for driving. Ask Wild

rover - he went there last year.

Do we Poles need visa?

I don't know. Check. And practise Ukrainian with your gardner:)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
15 Jun 2011  #149
Just read what I wrote about Ukrainian myself just above ;-) Already Juszczenko has convinced me!

about what?

(However, I can understand Russian fluently, and I don't get as much of spoken Ukrainian).

practise makes perfect. Russian is probly harder for a Polish speaker.

He prefers speaking Polish, pan Nikołaj ;-)

well, convince him to give you some lessons;)

(personally, I love the Ukrainian language - it's so slow and soft...much easier than Polish!)

you've always had a thing for Ukraine Delph:)
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
15 Jun 2011  #150
Antek_Stalich: Just read what I wrote about Ukrainian myself just above ;-) Already Juszczenko has convinced me!
about what?

That Ukrainian is a beautiful language!

Antek_Stalich: (However, I can understand Russian fluently, and I don't get as much of spoken Ukrainian).
practise makes perfect. Russian is probly harder for a Polish speaker.

Not when you start learning it at age of 11 ;-)

Antek_Stalich: He prefers speaking Polish, pan Nikołaj ;-)
well, convince him to give you some lessons;)

Not that he would a permanent employee, oh no ;-)


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