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Ukrainian language similar to Polish?



Sasha 2 | 1,083    
25 Dec 2009  #61

more Polish or more Russian ?

It's the same song. :) Which version I wonder sounds more understandable to you?


Polak89 1 | 13    
25 Dec 2009  #62

From my ear and readings of old writings and new, The closest language to Polish would be Czech although it use to be old Ukrainian/Ruthenian/Belorussian! Ever since Russian language reformation it has dominated Ukraine & Belorus just like when Serbian/Croatia language had the reformation under karadjordje the words were simplified and you write as you speak which is completely different in most other Slavic languages, the accent and words have changed dramatically. OF COURSE in Ukraine the western areas speak standard Ukrainian but still have that Russified accent and on the east just speak Russian. For Belorus its the other way around, some Russians even can't understand them if it wasn't for there accent and ability to also speak Russian they would have little to no luck. Sadly Belarussian is not spoken so much in their own country anymore....
southern 76 | 7,116    
25 Dec 2009  #63

I doubt if Lukashenko can speak belarussian properly.
Sasha 2 | 1,083    
25 Dec 2009  #64

The closest language to Polish would be Czech

Yeah, I think so.

Ukrainian/Ruthenian/Belorussian

Those were three different languages and the Belorussian was closer to Lithuanian untill been naturally and forcedly russified.

the words were simplified and you write as you speak which is completely different in most other Slavic languages

If that was about Russian, that's not true. As for Serbian they simply pronounce letters the way they are which is somewhat unusual for (let's say) Russian speaker. Similar words like "ona" (she) we would spell similar but pronounce differently ("ana" in Russian, yet "ona" in Serbian). That was probably your point. :)
Torq 25 | 2,260    
25 Dec 2009  #65

Lwow, Luck, Kamieniec Podolski i Zytomierz wiecznie polskie!

I can translate it: L'viv, Luc'k, Kamianec'-Podil'skyj and Zytomyr - zawzdy ukrajins'ki!


That's one sh*tty translation there, Nathan ;)
Nathan 18 | 1,373    
25 Dec 2009  #66

Well, having mastered not only the art of Polish language, but also some philosophy of deep and unpredictable Polish soul, I took everything into consideration and made this marvelous translation ;)

the language is technically a dialect of Polish fused with Russian

I feel Ukrainians also have something against Poland.

I think politics and especially nationalists or people who are close minded and extremely egotistical when it comes to their country, are denying these facts and believing only what they want to hear.

Same goes with Belorussia, which was a Polish territory until annexed by the Russian empire.

Whatever way you look at it, we're all Slavic so it doesn't really matter.

(I call it: Sh*t-in-my-face-and-then-send-me-a-kiss collection :)
Torq, this is a classic example where 3.1 billion euro in subsidies Poland received can be used to teach alloy people of that kind. I think on that front Poland is limping ;)
Torq 25 | 2,260    
25 Dec 2009  #67

LOL - good one, Nat! :)

However, if we flooded violetka with 3 billion euro, she might have a different
idea of spending them, than investing in historical and linguistic research ;)
Nathan 18 | 1,373    
25 Dec 2009  #68

I find it very very hard to doubt, Torq, so I must agree ;)
szczeciniak 4 | 92    
26 Dec 2009  #69

more understandable to you?

yes i understand both of them!
understanding is not the issue!
how it sound to me , is?
as via gra sounds very ukrainian( ukrainian friends)
the anther one sounds Russian(soft and stretch)
Sasha 2 | 1,083    
27 Dec 2009  #70

szczeciniak

as via gra sounds very ukrainian( ukrainian friends)
the anther one sounds Russian(soft and stretch)

I'm afraid I'll be too biased as I'm used to via gra singing in Russian that grasp their version as less Ukrainian than the second one. :)

Is that song popular in Poland? :)
violetta 2 | 22    
9 Apr 2010  #71

Nathan, so what kind of linguistic research have you done? I would absolutely LOVE to see some of your sources :)
Huta Stepanska    
28 Aug 2010  #72

Some of the words I understand as an American who grew up as Polish being my first language. My mother is from eastern Poland, now part of the Ukraine. She fully understands the language.
Nathan 18 | 1,373    
28 Aug 2010  #73

Nathan, so what kind of linguistic research have you done? I would absolutely LOVE to see some of your sources :)

Show me yours, I'll show you mine ;)
Stavropol    
21 Sep 2010  #74

I am Russian and I have a lot of Ukrainian friends. Once i asked one of them which language is easier to understand and she told me Russian. She lives in Kiev and maybe that factor played a role because i heard that there are so many people speak Russian there. I can understand Ukrainian without any problems, but Polish for me is difficult to get. I can get only simple Polish phrases)))
stavropol    
21 Sep 2010  #75

however I can understand over 50% Polish language!
Seanus 15 | 19,748    
21 Sep 2010  #76

Yeah, I understand 'kur*a kur*a kur*a' too ;)
swapp    
24 Feb 2011  #77

that is so no true!! thing is everyone in ukraine speaks russian, so they can understand eachother. Ukranian is just the official language
Lyzko    
26 Feb 2011  #78

A friend of mine from Poland always jokes that Ukrainian is simply Polish with a Russian accent-:)
lol
drosovsky    
13 Jun 2011  #79

Hi.

One thing that upsets me is a view I have found to be very common among Polish people. It is the incorrect view that many Ukrainian cities which were conquered by the Polish Lithuanian empire (and which came under Polish control) are incorrectly Polish cities. CIties like Lviv (Lwow), Kamyanets Podilsky (Kamieniec Podolski) Lutsk (Luck) and Zhytomyr (Zytomierz).

These are all Ukrainian cities, were from the very beginning Ukrainian cities and are now rightly Ukrainian cities.

Yes - Poland conquered these cities, but this does not make those cities Polish, part of Poland or belonging to Poland.

I would like Polish people to recognise this fact..."yes we once conquered and had control of those Ukrainian cities...but they are were not Polish cities to begin with".

Ukrainians have a common joke that a person speaking in Polish is like a drunk person speaking Ukrainian.

Ukrainians sometimes call Polish speakers "shypochany" or "szypoczanie"....because of the constant: sz, cz, rz sounds which are not present in any other slavic language.

In Ukrainian a violin: is a skrypka. Clear and simple...no shypochanya.
In Polish a violin is: skrzypce.
This is a perfect example of the additional "szkrz" sounds in Polish which are absent in Ukrainian and hence why Ukrainian speakers say Polish sounds like a drunk person speaking Ukrainian.

The "w" sound in Polish which is represented by a "l" with a line through it is also not present in any other slavic language.

Ukrainian is very different to Russian.

Yes it has similarities, but there are many vast differences.

Ukrainian is perhaps the most beautiful sounding and most beautiful melodical language of all the slavic languages.

This is a common fact.
legend 3 | 671    
13 Jun 2011  #80

Here is what I found out long ago when I was in high school (lots of Poles and Ukrainians attended; it was Catholic hs).

When they talk I cant understand anything lol (unless its super slow motion).
Anything I said in Polish they would understand.

****** scary lol. They have spies among us! Just kidding :D

I found that Czech is a bit easier to understand, Ukrainian, even Slovakian(Slovenian maybe), Croatian and Serb. I also heard a Macedonian show (I think) and I understand most of it.

Now Russian takes me a while to understand. Its usually 'blah blah insert-similar-words-here blah blah".

Thats just me.

My mom knows like a bizillion languages she understands and speaks all of the slavic languages.

Ukrainian is perhaps the most beautiful sounding and most beautiful melodical language of all the slavic languages.

I think thats up to opinion. But if I see a lass talking in any slavic language or slavic accent English I think I am in heaven.
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79    
13 Jun 2011  #81

Nobody, you are a Ukrainian speaker? My butt explodes laughing.

Nathan, you are not a Ukrainian speaker either. You've once posted what you claimed was a video of Ukrainian folk music, but it was sung by the Russians with horrible Russian accent. So, please just stop.

For the record - I am an ethnic Ukrainian (primarily Russian speaking, but I can speak Ukrainian too... I just prefer to use Russian as does most of my family... except some relatives who still live "v selo").

I noticed that in Dnipropetrovsk nobody speaks ukrainian.The same is true for Kharkiv,Lugansk and Crimea.I doubt if some Ukrainians in these regions can actually read and understand ukrainian.

Ahem. They can. I am one of those Ukrainians (except I live overseas nowadays!) - There were mandatory lessons of Ukrainian language and literature in all Ukrainian schools in the Soviet times, and of course it's pushed a lot more now, so make no mistake - everyone knows it. They just find it easier to speak in Russian.
legend 3 | 671    
13 Jun 2011  #82

Is it true that
east Ukrainians speak Russian as main language
while the west Ukrainians speak Ukrainian?

I also heard that if a split happens in the nation.
The east is more pro-Russian
while the west wants independance and would never want to be part of Russia.
(Too bad the west Ukraine should just except that they are Polish :D)

Is this true or false (ignoring my pun at the end)?
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79    
13 Jun 2011  #83

and then this? more Polish or more Russian?

That video again, ARRRGH! - you reposted the same video that Nathan (our "shanovni", supposedly authentic, zapadenski, anti-russian Ukrainian) shared a while ago. Can't you HEAR it's the Russians singing, not Ukrainians???? Their accent is ATROCIOUS. They are basically singing in Russian (especially since the languages are so similar, I guess it's difficult for them to say exact same words, but with Ukrainian pronunciation). Even this (Russian) girl-band sings it better (more correctly):

Here's a "real" Ukrainian hlopec singing (on Russian TV, he won some American idol -type of contest I think)

Or, if you want a folk song:
..

The same song by Polish guys:



(Poles) I would say, if it wasn't for W/V mixing up with L, they have a Russian accent in their Ukrainian.

I doubt if Lukashenko can speak belarussian properly.

He can. There are rumors that his father was a gypsy(kotlyar), but Bat'ka was born and bred in rural Belarus. He is the real deal.
Sasha 2 | 1,083    
13 Jun 2011  #84

Ukrainian is very different to Russian.

I think you should take time here and explain what "very" means in your book. How comes that I can understand a good portion of Ukrainian being a native Russian speaker then? With the same approach it may be said that Swedish is very different to Norwegian, but what's similar then? American and British English? Ok, now I must agree...
Language Buff    
14 Jun 2011  #85

Hi Sasha.

Ukrainian, Russian and Belorus all originated from the Old East Slavic.
For this reason they are similar and have many similarities.
All languages evolve over time.

The point that is made is that Ukrainian and Russian are not identical which many people incorrectly assume.
There are many, many differences.

All Russian speakers in Ukraine will understand Ukrainian because it is the official language.
They just might not be good at speaking it because they dont used it regularly enough.

On the other hand, Russian's from Russian which have never been to Ukraine will struggle somewhat to understand Ukrainian, although they should get the general jist of the conversation.

The other point that must be considered is that Ukraine has had hundreds of years of unfair Rusification.
I was in Ukraine and was greatly disappointed to see 16 out of 19 tv channels in Russian language.
Many magazines are in Russian language.

After all those years of Rusification, Ukraine should begin a gradual process of Ukrainianisation which is happening (very slowly).
Russian media in Ukraine (tv, radio, magazine, movies etc) is a problem which must be changed to the Ukrainian language gradually over time.

Pencil in Ukrainian = Olivets
Pencil in Russian = Karandash

Pocket in Ukrainian - Kishenya
Pocket in Russian = Karman

Of course in Ukr = Zvychajno
Of course in Rus = Kanyechno

Hide in Ukr = Hovatysya
Hide in Rus = Pryatsya

The list of differences between Ukrainian and Russian are probably in the thousands.

I could write about 200 examples in the next 10 minutes.

But yes there are also many similarities which is undeniable.
PolskiMoc 4 | 325    
14 Jun 2011  #86

It seems Polish is closer to Ukrainian than to Czech or Slovakian

It seems Ukrainian is closer to Polish than to Russian. Well at least Real Ukrainian. Not the Russified East Ukrainians.

Really odd about the whole East Slav & West Slav thing then.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997    
14 Jun 2011  #87

LanguageBuff is correct. Similar situation as Russian vs. Ukrainian exists between Czech and Slovak languages. Once Czechoslovakia was one country, people were used to both languages. After the split into Czech Republic and Slovakia, the language differences emerged, especially between young generation of both countries. Examples:

Parking-lot: Cz. parkoviště, Sk. parkovisko, Pl. parking
General wares: Cz. smíšený zboží, Sk. různý tovar, Pl. sklep wielobranżowy
White: Cz. bílý, Sk. biely, Pl. biały
To smoke (tobacco): Cz. kouřit, Sk. fajèi», Pl. palić
Railway station: Cz. železnièní stanice, Sk. železnicná stanica, Pl. stacja kolejowa

Moreover, Polish and Czech are very different due to historical reasons. Czech language as recreated in 19th century was deliberately made different from Polish so Czech people would not be afraid to lose their identity when neighboring with far larger Polish nation. Similar process of Slovak language recreation was not so restrictive and Slovak is more resembling Polish.

I'm not sure how about the understanding of real Ukrainian by Polish youth. Young Poles do not understand Russian; I wonder how much a young Warsawer could understand from Ukrainian.
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79    
14 Jun 2011  #88

Pencil in Ukrainian = Olivets
Pencil in Russian = Karandash

Pocket in Ukrainian - Kishenya
Pocket in Russian = Karman

Karman and Karandash are turkic words (later additions to Russian that replaced slavic equivalents)

Of course in Ukr = Zvychajno
Of course in Rus = Kanyechno

in Russian there's CHERE-zvychajno (out of the ordinary/ unusual etc. - not "on course", so the meaning is still there)
also, the verb chajat' (to will/to plan) is still used.

Hide in Ukr = Hovatysya
Hide in Rus = Pryatsya

in Russian, ZA-hovat'sya is used (complete/finished action, as opposed to pryatat' - which means action in the process, unfinished).

So, I am sorry - but your examples don't prove anything.

But I may be the wrong person to judge. I am an ethnic Ukrainian who is a Russian speaker, with relatives who speak Ukrainian, so I have exposure to both. To me, it's one language with (slightly) different sets of vocabulary (for example, Ukrainian words may seem old-fashioned if used in a Russian phrase, though they will still be understood) and different pronunciation. Actually, differences in pronunciation are more tricky IMHO and they prevent me from speaking Ukrainian freely. I have a funny Russian accent that relatives make fun of ;) so I am too embarrassed to even try. So I just speak Russian to them, they speak Ukrainian back. And by relatives I mean grandmothers and distant cousins who still live "u selo". Once people move to a city, they start speaking Russian usually. And I am not even taking about eastern Ukraine - they have their own, completely fused UkrRussian dialect.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997    
14 Jun 2011  #89

But I may be the wrong person to judge. I am an ethnic Ukrainian who is a Russian speaker, with relatives who speak Ukrainian, so I have exposure to both.

Perhaps the similar story as for former Czechoslovaks? You see, I can speak some Russian, the Moscow pronunciation, and I have musical ear. Yesterday, I spoke with a West Ukrainian gardener. He spoke good Polish, yet sometimes he was switching to his own language and it did not sound Russian to me at all?
Wiedzmin_fan - | 79    
14 Jun 2011  #90

I spoke with a West Ukrainian

Well. Western Ukrainians are... special ;)




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