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Polish and other slavic language differences


Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
2 Jan 2019  #31
Interesting, Vlad! Thanks for the info.
One never stops learning:-)

What helps me understand written Ukrainian, is my instinctive substitution of "g" for most "h" words and I come up with "govoriti" for "howoryty", "golodny" for " holodny" etc. Somehow, this principal failed me in CzechLOL

This phenomenon occurs in numerous closely related languages, e.g Spanish vs. Portuguese. In this case, most, if not ALL "h"-verbs in Spanish will be "f-verbs" in Portuguese, e.g. "hacer" / "fazer", "hablar" / "falar" etc...
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
2 Jan 2019  #32
What helps me understand written Ukrainian, is my instinctive substitution of "g" for most "h" words and I come up with "govoriti" for "howoryty", "golodny" for " holodny" etc.

That's true. Similarly to Czechs or Slovaks Ukrainians pronounce "g" character softly in difference from Russian. Ukrainians even introduced a special character for those very rare cases when "g' is pronounced hardly (mostly in borrowed words). Serbians and Bulgarians also use word "govoriti" for "to say".
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
2 Jan 2019  #33
Czech has h in most cases where Polish has g indeed - głodny is hladny in czech (y is accented in this word like in most Czecz adjectives to mark the stressed/long vowel)
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
  2 Jan 2019  #34
Nice point!

Whenever I heard a Russian repeat what I was saying to her father, She'd always start off with "Mark govorij,,,,", lit. "Mark speaks...."
No end fascinating such transferences of language:-)
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
  3 Jan 2019  #35
but "rozmowliAty

Many years ago I had a 'learn ukrainian' vinyl disc and IIRC 'Do you speak Ukrainian?" was something like "розмовляєте ли ви по українському" which seemed unnecessarily long and unwieldy

I'm not sure how standardized modern Ukrainian is (and to what extend the standard is actually used)

She'd always start off with "Mark govorij,,,,", lit. "Mark speaks..

I think that should end with a -t, govorit (like "Marek mówi..." in Polish)
FromPetrzalka    
3 Jan 2019  #36
@Vlad1234
Sure, but many Polish/Czech-like words in Bulgarian are also used, though mostly as slang or in local dialects (Western Bulgaria especially).

For ex Bulgarians have a slang word "zarabotvam" which I think is with the same root as the Russian and Polish words.

Same for "iskam" (to want/I want), we have a slang "ti shtesh" ("you want"), very similar to "ty chceš" and "chcesz".

For "dog" we officially say "kuche" (read "kucze") but we have a slang "pes" like CZ/SK "pes" & Polish "pies".

Many Slavic words survive mostly in slang or/and in villages, especially in Western Bulgaria. In fact around Sofia in the villages people would say "Ja" for "I" instead of the official "Az" (which comes from "Jaz" itself coming from "Ja" anyway!)
gregy741 4 | 1,232    
  3 Jan 2019  #37
The Russian economy is still based on primitive resource extraction

o please..they have massive arm and rocket industry.even most advanced american space rockets such as atlas are using Russian rocked engines.
Poland technology is like in medieval times compare to russian. sorry man.we cant even build warship or tanks.last time we started building patrol boat,it took us over 20 years.We actually dont invent anything worthy.. everything is made on licenses or by foreign companies. Polands economy is primitive,like some banana republic colony

if one day,lets assume,them foreign companies leave Poland for lets say China,we will be left with potato production
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #38
Sure, but many Polish/Czech-like words in Bulgarian are also used, though mostly as slang or in local dialects (Western Bulgaria especially).

Sure. I have no doubts all Slavic languages have very many similarities. The are many of the between Bulgarian and Russian/Ukrainian. I have no doubts there are many of them between Bulgarian and Polish/Czech as well. Most evident these similarities become when you go to older and basic words. For example is you know modern standard Polish AND Czech/Slovak (most regular words, not even dialects!) you would be able to understand around 90-95% of basic Russian vocabulary.
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #39
Similarities are often complementary. For example, if you can't find some similar word to some Russian word in modern Polish vocabulary, go to search Bulgarian or Slovak and surely you will find it!

Many Russian words sound more similar to Southern Slavic languages (Slovenian, Serbian, Bulgarian and Croatian) than to Western Slavic. So, we may say that kriss-cross complementary similarity is nearly complete.
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #40
I think that should end with a -t, govorit (like "Marek mówi..." in Polish)

That's correct. Always with "t" in Russian.
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #41
"розмовляєте ли ви по українському" which seemed unnecessarily long and unwieldy

There is no "ли" in Ukrainian. This is purely Russian word. A regular expression for this in Ukrainian will sound like:

"Czy wy howOryte Ukrajins'koju"? or " Czy wy rozmowliAjete Ukrajins'koju"? Or " HowOryte/rozmowliAjete Ukrajins'koju"? - for short form.
gumishu 11 | 4,902    
  3 Jan 2019  #42
There is no "ли" in Ukrainian.

li is present in Polish but is considered archaic or is used in fossilized constructions - maybe it is a similar case in Ukrainian
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #43
I don't remember any case it would be used in Ukrainian.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
3 Jan 2019  #44
There is no "ли" in Ukrainian.

I was working from memory... I'm sure about розмовляєте and по українському and was guessing at the rest from memory.. though
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
3 Jan 2019  #45
Your memory played a typical trick on you. You wasn't able to remember a Ukrainian phrase exactly and in dare attempt to recover it started to substitute Ukrainian with Russian.
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
3 Jan 2019  #46
Thanks, Vlad and Maf!
:-)
FromPetrzalka    
4 Jan 2019  #47
Weird, we have "ли" (li) in Bulgarian as well.
"Говорите ли български?" Govorite li Bulgarski?
FromPetrzalka    
4 Jan 2019  #48
Which is again proof Russian is influenced by or had a connection with Old Bulgarian.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,203    
4 Jan 2019  #49
li is present in Polish but is considered archaic

Znasz-li ten kraj,
Gdzie cytryna dojrzewa,
Pomarańcz blask
Majowe złoci drzewa?
Gdzie wieńcem bluszcz
Ruiny dawne stroi,
Gdzie buja laur
I cyprys cicho stoi?
Znasz-li ten kraj?
Ach, tam, o moja miła!
Tam był mi raj,
Pókiś ty ze mną była!
[...]


Do H(enryki Ankwiczówny). Wezwanie do Neapolu, Adam Mickiewicz (chairman of Slavic languages and literatures at the Collège de France between 1840 and 1844), poem written in 1840

neapol

A painting by Henryk Siemiradzki (1843-1902)
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
4 Jan 2019  #50
Reading "Pan Tadeusz" for me was filled with both arcane as well as archaic diction, scarcely recognizable in today's Polish! I had to have it explained by my teacher, much as reading Shakespeare for the average English speaker.
Spike31 2 | 699    
4 Jan 2019  #51
When it come to Mickiewicz, this may be more approachable for foreigners :-)

youtu.be/E1WCx006PiI
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
4 Jan 2019  #52
Depends on the canto:-)
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
9 Mar 2019  #53
In Czech and Ukrainian divka = girl. In Polish dziwka = slut.
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
10 Mar 2019  #54
Once again, "pukac" in Polish = to knock, in Russian "pukaT' = to fart.
etc....
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
10 Mar 2019  #55
In Polish dziwka = slut.

more like 'vvhore' (with an extension to slut)...
Vlad1234 10 | 465    
10 Mar 2019  #56
What is the difference?
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
10 Mar 2019  #57
a vv hore plays for pay... (gets money to do it)

for a slut the play is it's own reward... (just likes doing it)
Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
10 Mar 2019  #58
What's the difference? In rubles or in dollars?LOL


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