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Slavic accent correction


Wulkan - | 3,243
29 Mar 2013 #91
As I know Polish doesn't have upturn consonants when you have to put your tong as higher
as possible.Neither Polish "L", I think

so you think wrong

I do not see what Russian "L" has to do with English "W".
Rather "W" is something average between Russian "V" and "U".

Whatever this letter is you don't have it in English nor Polish.

It has nothing to do with accent of both languages when they speak in English

So what gives the different speach melody in English for Russian speakers if it's not the moving stress? comparing to the Polish speakers.

Could you give me examples of Polish words with letter "ł" sounding like English "W"? I want to check 'em in Google translator.

łopata, łeba, ława, łał - compare with English wow.
Lyzko
30 Mar 2013 #92
Russian speakers tend to slur their phonemes into one another compared with Polish speakers who tend to pronounce them separately. Perhaps one reason why many younger Russians are able to affect a believable-sounding "American" accent, whereas Poles typically cannot:-)

In Polish and in German, final devoicing of consonants occurs. In Russian, this is almost never the case:-)
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
31 Mar 2013 #94
łopata, łeba, ława, łał - compare with English wow.

I'm agree,strangely sound.Not so sure if it's exact counterpart of English W.
Wonder where it came from in Polish...
But I do not disagree that Polish has some strange sounds.For example "ą" or "ę".
Somebody said it is archaic.Probably, pronounciation is larger divider between Slavic languages.
I bet that Polish pronounciation is as distant from Czech as it is from Russian.
Could somebody tell if we could say definitely that Polish is closer to Czech than it is closer to Russian,
and closer to Slovak than it closer to Ukrainian?
jon357 71 | 20,365
31 Mar 2013 #95
I'm agree,strangely sound.Not so sure if it's exact counterpart of English W.

Almost but not quite. It's called the 'dark L'. Older people (in their 80s) often pronounce it a little more strongly, sort of / lj /.
Wulkan - | 3,243
31 Mar 2013 #96
But I do not disagree that Polish has some strange sounds.For example "ą" or "ę".

yes, those are nassal sounds like you have in French.

Could somebody tell if we could say definitely that Polish is closer to Czech than it is closer to Russian,
and closer to Slovak than it closer to Ukrainian?

Now, after so much time spent on this forum I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse asking such a basic question but I'm going to answer it seriously.

Yes, Polish is definitely closer to Czech than it is to Russian and closer to Slovak than it is to Ukrainian. Russian and Ukrainian are Eastern Slavic and Polish, Czech and Slovak are Western Slavic.
Warszawette - | 128
31 Mar 2013 #97
Hi! "ę" and "ą" are not like the nasal sounds of French (there are 4 nasal sounds in French and Poles (not to mention any other language speakers) cannot recognize and pronounce them so no relationship between Polish and French sounds ;).
Polson 5 | 1,770
31 Mar 2013 #98
"ę" and "ą" are not like the nasal sounds of French

Well, it's quite close ;)
Especially with ą, between the French 'an' in 'quand' (when) and 'on' in 'mon' (my).
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
31 Mar 2013 #99
Now, after so much time spent on this forum I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse asking such a basic question but I'm going to answer it seriously.Yes, Polish is definitely closer to Czech than it is to Russian and closer to Slovak than it is to Ukrainian.

Sorry for ignorance,but some people on this forum including claimed naitive Polish speakers have different opinions on this regard.For example:

Moreover, Polish and Czech are very different due to historical reasons. Czech language as recreated in 19th century was deliberately made different from Polish so Czech people would not be afraid to lose their identity when neighboring with far larger Polish nation.

polishforums.com/general-language-17/ukrainian-language-similar-polish-30550/4/

Polish and Russian have the same frequencies (if you analyse their spectra without looking at individual words, they are identical: that does not mean much in itself because that happens also with two uncorrelated languages such as Spanish and Greek). I speak Russian and right now I am in Poland and can understand quite a few things (I can even read newspapers!). Czech is also close to Polish, but I think to a lesser degree than Russian.

polishforums.com/general-language-17/the-languages-russian-polish-similar-all-3935/2/

Thanks to my father in law, I now have Czech tv and radio. It sounds more like Russian and Serbo-Croatian than Polish does. It is decidedly weaker than Polish.

polishforums.com/general-language-17/czech-language-sounds-like-baby-talk-most-poles-52168/7/
Maybe these posts a bit confusing but I do not know...
And from what I know Slovak should be much closer to Czech than to Polish and also have some unique traits.And Ukrainian is much closer to Polish than Russian.Especially in vocabulary.So I do not know what to think.
Wulkan - | 3,243
31 Mar 2013 #100
Maybe these posts a bit confusing but I do not know...

It is absolutely your choice if you want to listen to the true facts I am giving you or listen to some nonsense written by a few individuals. I guess second option suits better to the fairy tale world you live in...
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
31 Mar 2013 #101
So Polish is closer to Czech than to Ukrainian?
Wulkan - | 3,243
31 Mar 2013 #102
starting from the closest to the Polish language:

1. Slovakian
2. Czech
3. Ukrainian
4. Russian
Zibi - | 336
31 Mar 2013 #103
True, mostly. But if you ever have a chance to listen to Lower Sorbian (dolnołużycki) as spoken by those born 100 years ago (recordings exists) you'd think their language is no. 1 on that list. Unfortunately that language is dying and most of those still speaking it have had their pronunciation destroyed by the ever present influence of german.
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
31 Mar 2013 #104
True, mostly. But if you ever have a chance to listen to Lower Sorbian (dolnołużycki) as spoken by those born 100 years ago (recordings exists) you'd think their language is no. 1 on that list.

You forgot to mention Kashubian,Silezian and Old Prussian.No metter how close they were to Polish but it allows effectively manage Ukrainian and Russian somewhere on 9-10 places.
Wulkan - | 3,243
31 Mar 2013 #105
but it allows effectively manage Ukrainian and Russian

what do you mean by manage?
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
31 Mar 2013 #106
Nothing. Just a joke.
Pomeranian and Slovincian are also worth to mention.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomeranian_language
Lyzko
31 Mar 2013 #107
Jon, as I'm sure you and most others are aware, the so-termed "dark" 'L'-sound in Polish is mostly confined to older stage diction, heard also in movies, pre-1960:-) Poetry recitations too frequently employ this sound, occuring as well in the dialect speech of those from Zakopane (both young and old), even when speaking standard Polish!

When I first encountered it, it almost sounded like Russians speaking Polish (though of course, Russian has TWO 'L'-sounds; those found in "boLshoi" vs."goLova"), until I became slowly more familiar with various pronunciations of the the Polish language.
jon357 71 | 20,365
1 Apr 2013 #108
the so-termed "dark" 'L'-sound in Polish is mostly confined to older stage diction, heard also in movies, pre-1960:-)

I know a few people in their late 80s and 90s who still use it. One, however, is an actor. All are from places in the east that are no longer in Poland and all are from cultured backgrounds.
Vlad1234 18 | 1,203
1 Apr 2013 #109
starting from the closest to the Polish language:

1. Slovakian
2. Czech
3. Ukrainian

Could some linguist confirm that Czech is closer to Polish than Ukrainian to Polish?Either in vocabulary or prononce?
Or you could give some link to such a statement?

I found such a statement in I-net:

Czech is not any closer to Polish than Ukrainian is. On the contrary, Ukrainian has more shared words with shared meanings, whereas words shared between Polish and Czech tend to have different meanings in each language.

wikitravel.org/en/Talk:Polish_phrasebook
(at the end of page)
Lyzko
1 Apr 2013 #110
I know of another actor, Andrzej £apicki, who uses it constantly:-) Have a CD of him reading from some modern poetry and his voice is incantatory!


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