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plural forms (cztery kubki / czternascie kubkow)


ryanb 24 | 23
13 Jul 2011 #1
I am trying to learn some Polish before I move to Warsaw. I've been using Rosetta Stone. One thing that really leaves me confused is the plural forms.

cztery kubki- 4 cups
czternaście kubków - 14 cups

What makes the form of cup different when there are four versus fourteen? I don't get it.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
13 Jul 2011 #2
Nice thread, ryanb. Highly practical. I'll let the resident Poles give you the best advice but you'll notice changes between 1, 2-4 and 5 onwards, e.g jedna butelka, dwie butelki and pięć/sześć butelek. I'd also like to improve in this area. Please be patient and you'll get good help. One thing I can say is beware of irregular examples, e.g jedna owca, dwie owce and sześć owiec.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
13 Jul 2011 #3
cztery kubki- 4 cups
czternaście kubków - 14 cups

What makes the form of cup different when there are four versus fourteen? I don't get it.

all numbers above 4 require genitive (among them 14)
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
13 Jul 2011 #4
all numbers above 4 require genitive

Not all numbers above 4.

1-4 nominative
5 and above = genitive. But with the the exception:

Numbers above 19, ending with 1,2,3 or 4 require nominative.
E.g.
Mam 23 lata (nominative). Because it ends with 3.
Mam 26 lat (genitive). Because it ends with 6.
Lyzko
13 Jul 2011 #5
Szwedwpolsce, you continue to confirm in my mind anyway that often educated foreigners have studied a foreign language and know it better than many a native speaker. For instance, even Danes insist that Prof. Glyn-Jones' Reference Grammmar of the Danish Language is more comprehensive than anything in written by a Dane, George O. Curmes' weighty grammar of German, probably more complete than any single grammar written by a German in German, or Bruno Kress' 'Formenlehre des Islaendischen', more exhaustive in its declension tables than any book written in Icelandic by an Icelander etc...
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
13 Jul 2011 #6
I've been using Rosetta Stone.

By the way. How does Rosetta Stone teach people grammar?

I have noticed that many people using RS have poor grammar skills (when they try to construct their own sentences).

In English it is often possible to understand a sentence, even if the grammar is poor. In Polish it can be difficult to understand such a sentence. It is a big difference.
PennBoy 76 | 2,432
13 Jul 2011 #7
In Polish it can be difficult to understand such a sentence. It is a big difference.

How's your Polish coming along SzwP? getting there?
Goury - | 6
13 Jul 2011 #8
1-4 nominative
Numbers above 19, ending with 1,2,3 or 4 require nominative.

Not quite. Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4 require nominative. Numbers above 19, ending with 1 require genitve,

21 kubków

22 kubki

25 kubków

To sum up:

1 - 4 = nominatative

5 - 21 = genitive

And then:

22 - 24 = nominative

25 - 31 = genitive

32 - 34 = nominative

35 - 41 = genitive

And so on.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
13 Jul 2011 #9
Not quite. Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4 require nominative. Numbers above 19, ending with 1 require genitve,

Yes, it is true. I wrote it too fast.

I wrote ending with 1,2,3,4. But it should only be ending with 2,3,4, not 1.

Good that you saw it.

How's your Polish coming along SzwP? getting there?

It is going in the right direction. :)
Lyzko
13 Jul 2011 #10
Above one hundred, I'd figure (based on the greeting 'Sto lat!' not 'Sto laty!') that it's genitive followed by which ever base number number follows, e.g. One-hundred vs. One hundred-and-one houses etc..
OP ryanb 24 | 23
13 Jul 2011 #11
Quite confusing. I'm glad I will be able to take a class once I get there. Polish will be my fourth language but the grammar is so different from English or the romance languages I have already learned. I think I'm gonna put away Rosetta stone for a while and concentrate on my grammar book. Rosetta is great for helping me with listening and pronunciation I think but it hasn't helped much with grammar at all.
Bzibzioh
13 Jul 2011 #12
cztery kubki- 4 cups

To confuse you even more

cup=filiżanka

kubek=mug
strzyga 2 | 993
13 Jul 2011 #13
Above one hundred, I'd figure (based on the greeting 'Sto lat!' not 'Sto laty!') that it's genitive followed by which ever base number number follows, e.g. One-hundred vs. One hundred-and-one houses etc..

100 - sto lat Gen
101 - sto jeden lat - Gen

102 - sto dwa lata - Nom
103- sto trzy lata - Nom
104 - sto cztery lata - Nom

105 - sto pięć lat - Gen
...

Always look at the last part of the numeral. With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case, all the rest take Nominative.
But note:
12- dwanaście lat - Gen
13 - trzynaście lat - Gen
14 - czternaście lat - Gen
- it's because 12, 13 and 14 are one-word numerals and not compounds.
Lyzko
13 Jul 2011 #14
Brilliant, Strzyguśiu-:)) At least I was on the right track. As with many subjects, the more you think you know, the less you really do(....but eventually learn it better than if you thought you already knew it)!
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
13 Jul 2011 #15
With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case

Ending in 0 (zero) is also in genitive. I forgot to write that earlier.

20 lat
100 lat
and so on...
strzyga 2 | 993
13 Jul 2011 #16
With plural number, 2,3 and 4 are in Genitive case, all the rest take Nominative.

of course the opposite is true. sorry for the confusion :) and I've even managed to lead Szwed astray ;)
still what he said is true - 0 takes Genitive
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,594
14 Jul 2011 #17
I understand if this thread is a little confusing. But these rules are not so difficult if you just understand the principle.

I will try to summarize it quickly:

1-4 nominative
5 and above = genitive. But with the the exception:

Numbers above 19, ending with 2,3 or 4, require nominative.


(E.g.
Mam 23 lata (nominative). Because it ends with 3.
Mam 26 lat (genitive). Because it ends with 6.)

Also note that all numbers ending in 0 (zero) require genitive.

This is probably all you need to know about this thing.
Lyzko
14 Jul 2011 #18
Na gospodarstwie jest tysiący dwa kotów, psów, i pięćset stołów... just a made-up sentence merely to continue to practice this concept. I realize mixed genders could reveal other issues-:) LOL
toja
14 Jul 2011 #19
Na gospodarstwie jest dwa tysiące kotów i psów i pięćset stołów. If that's what you mean.
Lyzko
14 Jul 2011 #20
Czy to znaczę? Tak jest-:)
Lyzko
14 Jul 2011 #21
....ale, PIĘĆ tysięcy kobiet, koń itd....

-:))) LOL
grubas 12 | 1,384
14 Jul 2011 #22
Na gospodarstwie jest tysiący dwa kotów, psów, i pięćset stołów...

Czy to znaczę? Tak jest-:)

....ale, PIĘĆ tysięcy kobiet, koń itd....

You are funny.
Lyzko
14 Jul 2011 #23
Tak, są dziwne zdania, tylko zaćwiczić liczby polskie!


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