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Napić się kieliszek koniaku


Leopejo 4 | 120
26 Jan 2011  #1
I learned you say:

Napić się kogoś/czegoś

That is, "napić się" + dopełniacz. But my handbook of Polish has the following example:

Napije się Pan kieliszek koniaku?

Now my Polish friend says she would use "kieliszek" too and not "kieliszka". On the other hand she would say

Napić się filiżanki herbaty

and not "filiżankę". So why "kieliszek"?
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #2
wypiję kieliszek koniaku
napiję się kieliszka koniaku
wypiję filiżankę kawy
napiję się filiżanki kawy

if in your book is napiję się kieliszek koniaku then there is a mistake your book.
OP Leopejo 4 | 120
26 Jan 2011  #3
if in your book is napiję się kieliszek koniaku then there is a mistake your book.

Your examples are exactly how I thought it.

Strange only that also my Polish friend would have said kieliszek instead of kieliszka.

She adds she lately heard on television: "to co..napijemy się kieliszeczek naleweczki?"
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #4
"to co..napijemy się kieliszeczek naleweczki?"

That sentence sounds ok in colloquial language but is grammatically uncorrect. You will see many mistakes made by Poles which are a result of wide spread for years errors which found their place in colloquial language and are well rooted there.

But it's still weird that she told you that "napiję się kieliszek" is correct - it really jars on the ears...
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #5
napiję się kieliszka koniaku
napiję się filiżanki kawy

No! No, no, please! It sounds so terrible I don't even know where to begin.
"Napić się" should be followed by the name of the liquid only, in dopełniacz. Napij się mleka.
If you want to put the container into the sentence, it's incorrect but acceptable in spoken everyday language. But then the container is in biernik, not dopełniacz.

Napiję się kieliszek wódki, filiżankę kawy, szklankę mleka.
The correct form: wypiję kieliszek wódki, filiżankę kawy, szklankę mleka.

"Napiję się kieliszka" sounds as if kieliszek were the liquid you want to drink. Really terrible!
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #6
"Napiję się kieliszka" sounds as if kieliszek were the liquid you want to drink. Really terrible!

ok. but napiję się kieliszek wódki sounds also weird.

You will see many mistakes made by Poles which are a result of wide spread for years errors which found their place in colloquial language and are well rooted there.

That should be applied then to "kieliszka case" because I've checked in google and many people write kieliszka as well as kieliszek. Strzyga is right - her justification sounds really logical. Still I hear more times szklanki, kieliszka if used in such sentence than szklankę mleka:

- napiłam się szklanki ciepłego mleka z miodem
rather than:
- napiłam się szklankę ciepłego mleka z miodem

So as you see even Poles make gramatical mistakes ;)
Ziemowit 12 | 3,485
26 Jan 2011  #7
"Napiję się kieliszka" sounds as if kieliszek were the liquid you want to drink. Really terrible!

I am all for the explanations that you gave, Strzyga. However, you must know that it is very common to say "wypij sobie kielicha" or "napij się kielicha" or "chlapnij sobie kielicha". No one at their common senses, that is before any drinking, will ever say "wypij sobie kielich". So the native speakers who do not drink too much vodka or drink it in small volumes such as Puella, for example, may get confused when it comes to drinking only a kieliszek of vodka.

[For those who don't know: typically "napij się kielicha" is only an invitation to start drinking vodka in some bigger volumes.]
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #8
Still I hear more times szklanki, kieliszka if used in such sentence than szklankę mleka:

It sounds very strange to me and I've never ever heard this, I can't even imagine that any Polish speaker could say so. But I may be wrong, after all, people are making the weirdest kinds of mistakes. Could it be regional?

Unless you mean negative sentences, then it's ok - nie napijesz się szklanki mleka.

Strzyga. However, you must know that it is very common to say "wypij sobie kielicha" or "napij się kielicha" or "chlapnij sobie kielicha". No one at their common senses, that is before any drinking, will ever say "wypij sobie kielich".

You're right, of course, but it's limited to kielich od wódka :) Would you say that "wypij sobie szklanki herbaty" sounds as good?
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #9
Could it be regional?

maybe...

Unless you mean negative sentences, then it's ok - nie napijesz się szklanki mleka.

Shouldn't it be "nie napijesz się szklankę mleka?"

"Napiję się kieliszka" sounds as if kieliszek were the liquid you want to drink.

So in negative we drink the glass? ;)
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #10
So in negative we drink the glass? ;)

In negatives we use dopełniacz :)
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #11
really? where's the logic and consistency?
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #12
In negatives we use dopełniacz :)really? where's the logic and consistency?

It's not logic, it's basic gramar :)

Jest mleko? ----M
Nie ma mleka. ---- D

Zjadłem jabłko. --- M
Nie zjadłem jabłka.---- D
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #13
It's not logic, it's basic gramar :)

Ok I see I shouldn't pass matura, hehe

As a proof it's not just me who is an illiterate idiot ;D :

Po upuszczeniu sauny, napij się szklanki wody

spec.pl/uroda/pielegnacja/sauna-jak-z-niej-korzystac-poradnik
Ziemowit 12 | 3,485
26 Jan 2011  #14
You're right, of course, but it's limited to kielich od wódka :) Would you say that "wypij sobie szklanki herbaty" sounds as good?

No, of course not. What I was trying to explain in my off-side comment

[For those who don't know: typically "napij się kielicha" is only an invitation to start drinking vodka in some bigger volumes.]

was that the noun 'kielich' is in fact a 'substitute' for 'vodka', so the expression really is : 'Napij się wódki'. And because of that the noun 'kielich' is used - strangely enough - in dopełniacz rather than in biernik. But from a strictly formal point of view, this bizzare usage of 'kielicha' in 'wypij sobie kielicha' escapes the otherwise

"Napiję się kieliszka" sounds as if kieliszek were the liquid you want to drink. Really terrible!

very sensible comment that you've made.
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #15
I feel imbecyle ;)
Ziemowit 12 | 3,485
26 Jan 2011  #16
You don't have to. You try to get to the essence of things and that is what is important!
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #17
Po upuszczeniu sauny, napij się szklanki wody

The text seems to be OK otherwise, so I think there are just two typos in this one sentence ("upuszczeniu" being the other one).

Anyway, Google has seen weirdest forms and usages, which nevertheless doesn't make them all correct or even remotely acceptable.
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #18
Anyway, Google has seen weirdest forms and usages, which nevertheless doesn't make them all correct or even remotely acceptable.

There are other examples. I just wanna show that such mistakes are quite frequent. I heard it many times that's why I memorized wrong grammar form.

When there was a tvp kultura short animated movies series about common Polish language mistakes there was an example with sweter that people allegedly say "swetr"... I never heard anyone to say "swetr". So maybe it works this way that in some regions somemistakes are more frequent than in other? How do you think?
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #19
Puella - chin up, girl. At least you are interested in the language and can admit a mistake, and that's saying a lot. Many people treat the language very arrogantly. We all learn as we go, nobody's perfect :)

When there was a tvp kultura short animated movies series about common Polish language mistakes there was an example with sweter that people allegedly say "swetr"... I never heard anyone to say "swetr". So maybe it works this way that in some regions somemistakes are more frequent than in other? How do you think?

Oh yes, I've heard this one many times. Swetr, like wiatr. Or wiater, like sweter :) So it might be regional after all. I'm from Lublin.
puella 4 | 172
26 Jan 2011  #20
Or wiater, like sweter :)

That one I also never heard...
I'm from central Poland.

What about chłopaki and chłopacy? Is it true that both words are correct?
strzyga 2 | 993
26 Jan 2011  #21
What about chłopaki and chłopacy? Is it true that both words are correct?

Słownik poprawnej polszczyzny PWN says that chłopacy is rare, but correct.
OP Leopejo 4 | 120
27 Jan 2011  #22
What a discussion came out! Thank you all.
cinek 2 | 337
27 Jan 2011  #23
That should be applied then to "kieliszka case" because I've checked in google and many people write kieliszka as well as kieliszek

This is very common in Polish, and it's not changing the case (both are biernik) but the gender. When you use the masc. inanimate declension pattern you get 'kieliszek' (like kogo? co? stół, obraz, dom etc.) while when you use the masc. animate (or presonal) pattern you get 'kieliszka' (like kogo? co? chłopca, psa etc.).

This is a common phenomenon in Polish language. Peaople often make inanimate things animate to express some kind of personal attitude to it or to behavoiur related to it or to make the sentence sound more friendly or funny.

So in this case:
"Napijesz się kieliszek?" means "would you like to drink?"
while
"Napijeszc sie kielicha?" means something like "do you want some of my good stuff? come on, let's have some good time"

Cinek
Ziemowit 12 | 3,485
28 Jan 2011  #24
People often make inanimate things animate to express some kind of personal attitude to it or to behavoiur related to it or to make the sentence sound more friendly or funny

So in this case:
"Napijesz się kieliszek?" means "would you like to drink?"
while
"Napijesz sie kielicha?" means something like "do you want some of my good stuff? come on, let's have some good time"

So, as far as I can understand these two above statements of yours:
"Napijesz się kielich?" would just mean "would you like to drink?"
while
"Npijesz się kieliszka?" would mean something like "do you want some of my good stuff? come on, let's have some good time".

Am I right in thinking so?
cinek 2 | 337
31 Jan 2011  #25
Napijesz się kielich

I would not use 'kielich' at all. It sounds old-fasioned. Use 'kieliszek' instead.
But in general yes, I'd use 'kieliszek' and 'kieliszka' in the way I wrote.

Edit

One could use 'kielicha' instead of 'kieliszka' in sentences like:
"walniemy kielicha?" or "strzelimy po kielichu?", but in general,
"kielich" is used mostly in some fixed expressions like "kielich goryczy" or "kielich kwiatowy" etc.

Cinek


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