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WHY THE HELL CANT I LEARN POLISH??


gumishu 11 | 5,128
18 Aug 2019 #31
I would suggest watching Polish videos on YouTube with POLISH subtitles.

I think Polish is too complicated to learn it this way perahps except for the very basic basics :):P
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
18 Aug 2019 #32
I agree, gumishu, but I think that's what the original poster was referring to.
Certainly, this is not going insure acquiring a high-level or academic vocabulary, but for more elementary conversation purposes, the method worked for me at any rate, and Polish was my first Slavic language:-)

Watching Polsat proved tremendously helpful in my case. I was able at the time to switch off the English captions and simply listen to hours of Polish uninterrupted, the goal being to thereby eliminate any second-language "interference.

For example: (announcer) Dobry wieczor! Nazwisko LECH WALESA zjawi sie w gazetach wszedzie w Polsce po rozmowie z dziennikarzka _____________, "Lech Walesa: Bohater czy zdrajca.........

Rather than reading a translation, I simply listened and watched the screen, allowing me to take notes and eventually to acquire the
new working vocabular I'd acquired naturally instead of institutionally.
Joker 1 | 1,433
19 Aug 2019 #33
@Lyzko
I've used Rosetta Stone in the past and it wasn't very good, for words it was ok , but not sentence creation at all. I like Babbel. I found this program much easier to use and the price is pretty cheap compared to the other programs. Polish is difficult to learn and it really helps to have someone to talk too. Watching Polish movies with subtitles will help piece the puzzle together:)
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
19 Aug 2019 #34
Aha, Joker! Frame the last sentence because that is in fact what language learning is in itself, piecing seemingly disparate pieces of a much larger picture together into one cohesive whole.

Rosetta, Pimseleur, I found most inadequate, testing myself in fact by seeing if I had zero clue about Polish, whether or not I could expect to learn any practical, above all, fluently correct and grammatically natural conversation, simply by listening to and following a Rosetta CD-Rom and the answer was a resounding NIE!!

As with Berlitz and many a similar language learning series, beyond all the moderately false advertising, all they do is merely plug in phrases in daily context without a sense of how or most important why, the new structure functions as it does.

At best, I could see perhaps for the average, non-linguistic or academically trained learner such as yourself, Rosetta as a possible pendant or accompanying course to an official college class taught by a professional native Polish instructor. Apart from that, try the "direct" method.

Merely to provide but one measly example, the Intermediate beginning chapter, as I recall, starts with "W kawiarnii", featuring the verb pair "przynosic" vs. "przyniesc", both meaning more or less "to bring". Make a short story even shorter, the reader that goes along with the listening section completely ignores any mention of aspect or why there are two paired verbs denoting presumably the same action. It glosses over it so that the learner only learns to repeat, but not to understand. Problem is, none of us are children, but adults, and we need explanation.

Learning organically still doesn't mean learning by magic.
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
19 Aug 2019 #35
Once you are fluent in English, learning another language makes as much sense as looking for a financial advisor when you have a billion.
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
19 Aug 2019 #36
Again, speaking, reading, writing, "communicating" in any foreign language, need not mean that the person is THINKING in that language.
I dare you once more to find any random Pole in a customer service, even a higher level executive capacity, with whom you can let your hair down and converse in the type of casually effortless, humorous way in which you would with a native American English speaker:-)

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, DUDE!

Actually, I know of only two insanely wealthy people who use a financial advisor, but only because they claim to be honestLOL
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
19 Aug 2019 #37
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, DUDE!

You are making my point! That is why I avoid them like I avoid stepping into a dog sh*t. I only want to be near those who can catch what I say, appreciate my brilliance and laugh when it's funny. The last thing I want to hear is: What did you say? Or some generic grunt pretending to be an intelligent reaction.
Zlatko
19 Aug 2019 #38
For me it's best to learn in a language class with a teacher, listening/reading/writing exercises. I get frustrated learning by myself.
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
19 Aug 2019 #39
Formal instruction can have its advantages as well, no doubt. Only, avoid grammar-translation like the plague!

Another tip might be to label various household objects, as many as you can, when you're learning Polish:-)
This will definitely help form a firm lexical (if clearly not a semanticLOL) foundation, so that you will eventually no longer feel the need to use English; you will be able to name things without having to lean on your dictionary as a crutch!

For example, a nice big block-lettered index card or what not with SCIANA taped temporarily to the wall, KRZESLO to one of your chairs, STOL, for the table, PODLOGA might be hard for the floor, since you walk all over it every day, but you get the idea.

Sorry for the umpteenth time about the missing Polish diacritical marks.
Joker 1 | 1,433
20 Aug 2019 #40
Rosetta, Pimseleur, I found most inadequate,

I agree. I didn't try Pimseleur because it looked the same as "Polish in 4 weeks" Its a book and a CD, yeah right! Perhaps, 4 years...lol

Rosetta as a possible pendant or accompanying course

Im sticking with babbel. Ive had it for a few months and its definitely the best one so far, for me.

Another tip might be to label various household objects

Babbel has an app for that:)

Watch Polish movies on YouTube with subtitles or if you get TVPolonia?
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
20 Aug 2019 #41
At the moment, only the former, unfortunately. Of course, there's always Skype:-)

My biggest beef with ANY such language learning series is that it's going to be focused on sales, not scholarship!
Hey, these guys wanna sell some CDs here and make some mullah. Can't really blame 'em for that, can ya?

However, if serious, monastically focused foreign language acquisition is one's primary goal, and a laudable one it
is, all of the above are in essence a waste of time and money, sorry to be so blunt about it. You're not going to master

counting quirks, case usage or aspect distinctions aka sound like a literate vs. a semi-literate Polish speaker from Pimsleur,
Rosetta, even Babbel, and so resign yourself to that fact!

A solid working tourist knowledge of the language is basically all you can honestly expect. If you're satisfied with that,
then mazel tov, dude. Go for it and Powodzenia!!
Joker 1 | 1,433
20 Aug 2019 #42
Babbel, and so resign yourself to that fact!

Just because your are incapable of learning from language programs doesnt mean everyone else is. Maybe, you should find some ppl in New Jersey to help you practice?

I dont need Skype, I have a Polish wife and usually around ppl speaking Polish.

Go for it and Powodzenia!!

Thanks, Mr. gloom! lol
Lenka 3 | 1,932
20 Aug 2019 #43
A solid working tourist knowledge of the language is basically all you can honestly expect.

Let us know once you reach that level so we can compare your system to theirs
mafketis 23 | 7,829
20 Aug 2019 #44
make some mullah

moolah is the general spelling
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
20 Aug 2019 #45
Actually, I've never seen the word in print, thanks Maf:-)

@Joker & Lenka As far as any critical impressions of either Rosetta Stone or Pimsleur, I never used Babbel, this is true and so no, I can't judge its effectiveness.

I will say, that my Polish would doubtless be nowhere near the Upper Intermediate to Advanced level it is now, had I relied exclusively on Rosetta, that's for sure! As I'd mentioned in a previous post, I tried to imagine I was learning Polish as a rank newbie by diving into an early chapter which takes place in a café/"coffee bar", and would have been confused no end by the way in which the material was presented, making no apparent reference to the difference between the two forms in Polish of the English verb "to bring".

However, I certainly never intended to discourage you in my post. I think it's great and I reiterate "Dobrej zabawy!".
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
20 Aug 2019 #46
Hey, non-Polish speaking failures, don't feel bad. I spent the first 24 years of my life in Poland and couldn't quite get the hang of that terrible language. So I left for where it was not required.
kaprys 2 | 2,127
21 Aug 2019 #47
The reality is that learning any language takes years. Self practice is important but you do need a qualified teacher to show you your mistakes. Otherwise you keep making them not even knowing it. Also, being exposed to the language helps a lot as you get to know correct word collocations etc.

The most important goal, however, is to get the message across.
Crow 137 | 8,004
21 Aug 2019 #48
Amazing really...i have spent the last god know how many months here and as of yet i know exactly 12 polish words

Maybe you are stupid. Who knows. After all, forgive yourself, its not given to all to be able to speak divine languages.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,113
21 Aug 2019 #49
I spent the first 24 years of my life in Poland and couldn't quite get the hang of that terrible language.

Forgive my confusion, but when I put it to you on another thread that perhaps you hadn't got to grips with the grammar of Polish language, you posted this reply which is totally at odds with what you are now saying:

I never got to grips? How do you graduate from a high school and, then, from Politechnika without it?

Given that you remind PF members on a regular basis of how brilliant and intelligent you are, how is that if you are to be believed, you managed to get a Diploma in engineering from WUT? I would not imagine any university taking students who couldn't communicate effectively and to a high standard in their native language, especially given that you supposedly studied a STEM subject, where one would need to know 'technical' jargon.

Nothing you say adds up I'm afraid. Maybe the language is too difficult for you, after all, learning languages is not everyone's forte.
gumishu 11 | 5,128
21 Aug 2019 #50
Rich is Polish at heart - he speaks things he doesn't think much about in a fervour and probably exaggaretes greatly from time to time - if he has contempt for the Polish language even though he grew up as Polish, so what? - let him be
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
21 Aug 2019 #51
I wanted to be a lawyer. Lawyers are trained to argue A on Monday and the exact opposite on Tuesday and still be admired if they win. No, it's not hypocrisy. It's the ultimate in professionalism.

Meeting minimum specs is one thing. I did that at the WUT and elsewhere. But I still didn't like the language. I would stutter. The sentences were not flowing. I hated all those exceptions, grammar, and spelling. Those szcz sounds would make me literally sick.

Here, I love English so much it's hard for me to shut up. I even wrote a book just to enjoy the fact that I can. The few reviews I got were critical of my opinions, but not of my ability to write in plain and reasonably good English. So, there.
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
21 Aug 2019 #52
@kaprys, I can only second your post!

As I just got finished saying the other day, learning a language can be done "organically" aka " as a child learns without second-language intereference as much as humanly possible, but learning a language has in the end NO shortcuts to competence and is NOT magic:-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
21 Aug 2019 #53
Otherwise you keep making them not even knowing it.

That's why I avoid immigrants like a plague. Natives are good to be around - you listen to them and adjust.
Unless you are an Oriental. Or have a marketable shtick like Ahhrnold.

"as a child learns without second-language interference as much as humanly possible,"

That's why I banned Polish when my first kid was born. Good daddy.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,113
21 Aug 2019 #54
if he has contempt for the Polish language even though he grew up as Polish, so what?

I would expect a non-native to possibly have contempt for the Polish language if for example, they found it difficult to learn ( as in the thread title ) or were learning under sufferance, but why would a native speaker have contempt for their own language? That doesn't make sense.

Meeting minimum specs is one thing.

Entry to university depends not only on knowledge of your chosen subject, but on competency in your native language. NO university would accept someone with poor Polish language skills because you would not be able to make yourself understood in assignments and examinations. Not getting the hang of that terrible language doesn't exactly cut the mustard does it?
Rich Mazur 4 | 5,035
21 Aug 2019 #55
I would expect a non-native to possibly have contempt for the Polish language

You are confusing contempt with not liking. You did meet the people you never wanted to meet again, didn't you?. Did you feel contempt? Of course, not.

Entry to university depends not only on knowledge of your chosen subject, but on competency in your native language.

Competency - yes. Fluency - no. They would admit those with speech impediments or outright mute. Not to be teachers, of course, but engineers. I graduated from Wydzial Lacznosci. Nobody ever expected me to be fluent in Polish or like it. I remember a student from Bulgaria with barely any Polish and she did just fine.

Not getting the hang of that terrible language doesn't exactly cut the mustard does it?

It does. Just like skating. Not falling on your ass is one thing; triple jumps is another. I was somewhere in between in Polish. Enough to get by, not enough to enjoy it.

OK, mafketis, here is your free gift from me. I mean that "ass" thing. Go for it, since you are not inclined to make any comments about my posts that do not involve this body part.

trashing or taking a thread off topic, could lead to a suspension
mafketis 23 | 7,829
21 Aug 2019 #56
I mean that "ass" thing

your bvtt fixation is a curious phenomenon...

why would a native speaker have contempt for their own language?

it happens, but such real cases don't play out like Rich's fairytale... rejection of a native language isn't that rare among immigrants - but usually for purely pragmatic reasons related to assimilation and not poor ability or dislike of the structure... rusty native usage of a language also has certain characteristics all of which are sorely lacking in RM's use of Polish...
NoToForeigners 7 | 1,061
21 Aug 2019 #57
If you tell yourself that you will never learn Polish, you will not pick up phrases or learn anything else.

Actually if you tell yourself anything is impossible for you to achieve you will not achieve it even if it actually was possible.

I think Polish is too complicated to learn it this way perahps except for the very basic basics :):P

I say don't trust in anything Lyzko types/says about Polish language or ways of learning the language. His Polish is Google Translate level at best and that should tell you a lot more than he ever will.
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
21 Aug 2019 #58
And your English is Google Translate at worstLOL

You shouldn't judge what you don't completely understand.
I've run into your type too many times to recount, oddly enough though, those in question exclusively were Frenchmen, Parisians, to be exact:-) They claimed that only the true Frenchman from France, that is, from her capital, can or could ever express themselves in that language. Therefore, foreigners such as I should merely do the French that kindest of favors, and speak English when in Paris.

Naturally, the punch line of the joke here is that their English was without exception so awful, all I could do was to stop from laughing in their faces! Often, I honestly didn't understand what they were saying, and so I had no choice but to speak to them in my albeit fractured French. My pronunciation saved the day, more than I could say about theirs!
kaprys 2 | 2,127
21 Aug 2019 #59
@Lyzko
Why do you keep mocking foreigners when they speak English? Whether it's Crow, NTF or Parisians you meet?
Perhaps those Frenchmen didn't understand your French.
In fact, IME, a lot of French people would answer qui if you ask them if they speak English so they're not that much into English really.

As much as I believe communication, it's really annoying that you patronise others and I really feel like pointing out the mistakes you made in your example in Polish ....

It's actually such an attitude of native speakers that frustrates language learners.
Lyzko 25 | 7,521
21 Aug 2019 #60
I never patronize, I only respond in kind.
Had I received some polite, if tacit, consent from NoTo Foreigners regarding my Polish, I would have replied in a friendly, considerate manner.

Put on the boxing gloves, you'll get clobbered!!!
:-)

It's also just entirely possible that those Frenchmen, more to the point, didn't understand my English, now isn't it?

The present commentary has clearly spiraled out of control.


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