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Why Genitive instead of Accusative in Polish language?


Taneyev
2 Jul 2015 #1
Hi to everyone, I'm new in this forum, I began to study Polish one year ago.

I've a trouble with this sentence:

- Czy Małgosia ma dwa zielone ogórki?
- Nie, ona ma jednego zielonego ogórka

My question is: Why is he using Genitive instead of Accusative in 2nd phrase?

As Jeden behaves as an ordinary adjective I expected the Accusative: "Nie, ona ma jeden zielony ogórek". The phrase is not negative ( "nie" is before the comma).

hope someone helps me!

S.
Lyzko 24 | 6,787
2 Jul 2015 #2
"Ona ma jednĄ zielonĄ ogórkĘ." but "Ona nie ma jednEJ zielonEJ ogórkI." "ogórka" - feminine noun, "-ego" - masc. virile animate/inanimate and/or neuter ending

"Ona ma jeden czerwony ołówek." but "Ona nie ma jedNEGO czerwonEGO ołówKU." "ołówek" - masculine (inanimate) noun

:-)
Taneyev - | 2
2 Jul 2015 #3
Thankyou Lyzko for your answer, ogórek seemed to be masculine inanimate (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ogórek )

The phrases I posted are part of a story told by a Polish native speaker so I presumed they are correct...

the use of Genitive in negative phrases is clear to me.

I don't understand why a native speaker uses genitive in a positive phrase (with the number jeden that does not require genitive)

S.
cinek 2 | 338
2 Jul 2015 #4
"ogórka" - feminine noun, "-ego"

Oh please, stop confusing people.

Ogórek is definitely masculine.
The proper sentence should be:

"Ona ma jeden zielony ogórek" and this is how people would say that 20 years ago.

However, in today's Polish there is tendency to make some inanimate male nouns animate, and this is just one example of that.

So in the sentence: "Ona ma jednego zielonego ogórka" there's still Accusative, but ogórek is used as it was masc animate (not inanimate, as dictionaries still say).

Cinek
Taneyev - | 2
2 Jul 2015 #5
Thankyou Cinek !

You are able to explain in a very clear way! Now I understand perfectly the answer.

Best regards

S.
NocyMrok
3 Jul 2015 #6
"Ona ma jednĄ zielonĄ ogórkĘ." but "Ona nie ma jednEJ zielonEJ ogórkI." "ogórka" - feminine noun, "-ego" - masc. virile animate/inanimate and/or neuter ending

OMG. Is this your "fluent" Polish, Lyzko? :D
kpc21 1 | 763
3 Jul 2015 #7
This is not genitive, this is accusative :)

Accusative in Polish can look either like nominative, or like genitive. Generally, it looks like genitive for people, animals etc. and like nominative for non-living objects - but this is not a strict rule. In official language - in different documents, technical texts etc. - the "non-living" version is used more frequently than in the everyday speech.

"ogórka" - feminine noun

What?

However, in today's Polish there is tendency to make some inanimate male nouns animate, and this is just one example of that.

That's the case, although, I don't think in the past it was different. This is just a difference between the formal and informal language.
notes007 - | 2
3 Jul 2015 #8
That's the case, although, I don't think in the past it was different.

I agree with cinek - it was definitely different in the past... Now the genetive form is becoming really expansive, e.g. "wysłać list" but "wysłać smsa". Some people say that it might be connected with the frequancy of using a phrase. When we use it more often, we start using the genetive instead of accusative. For example, "zjadłem kotleta" but "zjadłem befsztyk" - we don't eat the befsztyk so often so we leave the accusative form. The same thing with the letter and the text message.


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