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The Future of Polish Language


Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #151
Right on, Poglisz!

Your comments confirm my experience across Europe as a whole-:))
Keep up the observations, go against the grain.
You also happen to be correct (unfortunately) (:-

Let's hope folks out there will draw a lesson from such commentary.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Dec 2010 #152
Anybody know how Polish shapes up in terms of English loan-words compared to, let's say, German, Swedish, Dutch, French, Italian, etc. In other words what % of the vocabulary is of English origin.
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #153
Your point being then that Polish, Dutch, German and the rest are poor in word choice??!!

This must be meant to be sarcastic-:)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #154
but I guess German would not be so much German if it used just as many latin words as English does ;)

Say thank you to Arminius and the battle of the Teutoburg Forest in 9 AD. :)

Had the Romans won the germanic language would had changed greatly or even gone extinct. No German, no anglo/saxon English (no Shakespeare!) etc.
Our fate would had been that of the Gauls. Culturally and linguistically. The common language of the biggest part of Europe today would be latin.

Today the biggest part of english is german, french and latin...a real european mix! :)
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #155
To my mind, however, German often uses far too many loan words from English, where a perfectly good, succinct German word would suffice. Why for instance use "outsourcing" when "Auslagerung" or Fremdbeschaffung" work equally well?

-:)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #156
Globalization! ;)

Languages are changing all the time. We all would had problems to communicate with our ancestors (doesn't matter which country and which language) from 100 years back. 500 years back it would be near impossible.

As many developed, interconnected western countries use more and more english as the main way to communicate with each other and loan words change the native languages it goes also the other way around.

English in 100 years will have changed greatly since alot of foreign loan words will have made their way into Oxfords dictionary and other countries "corruptions" of once fine grammar will have become modern accepted speak.

It's a give and take!
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #157
There ya go, B.B. "Globalisierung" is just as fine, but NO, you have to go and use "Globalization".

Why, for heaven's sake?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #158
Why, for heaven's sake?

My bow to english being the language of this board! ;)

(But I'm fairly sure in a few years "s" will rule the "z") ! :):):)
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #159
An interesting aside.

While I don't agree entirely, I'm willing to concede certain inroads into any language. The question remains however, whether the changes are done because of sheer practicality or simply out of plain ol' laziness!! Frankly, I think it's the latter, sorry-:))

Guess what though, ol' sparing partner! The Brits beat us out years ago. The English-speaking world's British anyhow. If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em's what you all seem to be saying. Am I right?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #160
An interesting aside.

Or a third aspect: Fashion.

A big parts of the developments of a language belongs to the slang and the youth speak. It's cool for the youngster to invent and use new words...compared to the boring oldies.

Doesn't matter if the first use was in english or german or french or polish...a few years later it will be part of the language (if it is seen as cool enough!).

Think generation MTV or Youtube ;)

Actually that's a question I wonder about. What if China becomes so computer savy and a real free democratic country that it will be a big (maybe the biggest) part of the internet and media community (1 Billion people after all).

Will chinese words also gain entry into our western speak? Chinese is so very much different....
Daisy 3 | 1,225
18 Dec 2010 #161
My bow to english being the language of this board! ;)

Globalisation is proper English, Globalization is American, so it was more of a kick than a bow
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #162
"s" is german, "z" is non-german.... So! ;)
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Dec 2010 #163
No, but I know German has absorbed loads of English since WW2. Dunno about Dutch and Norse tongues but assume it's much the same. The French and Italians have been more resistant, and I'm wondering where Poles would find themselves in the overall scheme of things.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #164
I think you must differentiate between the language families. It's much easier for a German to "absorb" loads of english (familiarity) than for the roman languages french and italian.
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #165
"Youth speak"! Ah yes, now you've really hit a sore spot with me. This whole articifial concept of youth speaking "differently" from their elders only started to come about during the suburbia sub-(pop-)culture of late 50' America. Prior to that, youth and elders spoke the same way - maturly and in a more or less educated, well-schooled fashion! This all changed as soon as the young folks, parents, started moving to suburbs after WWII. Four walls in a city dwelling wasn't good enough any longer; now everyone needed fresh air and space.

Well, this shunted old folks who couldn't afford the move over the side and kids began growing up only among their own, i.e young people became "cool" and old people were "weird" since both groups now began to grow apart from the other. This cancer than spread thoughout the industrialized world, e.g. to 60's Germany, at that time 'West Germany'.

And this was the beginning of the end!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #166
This whole articifial concept of youth speaking "differently" from their elders only started to come about during the suburbia sub-(pop-)culture of late 50' America.

There is absolutely nothing artificial about it.
That is a part of growing up, segregating themselves from the grown ups...finding their own ways, their own clothing style, revolting, developing their own language.

You can read books about that...Nothing new or artificial about it.

Prior to that, youth and elders spoke the same way - maturly and in a more or less educated, well-schooled fashion!

That is just not true! ;)

There would never had been any development of language if the youth did everything as the Elders did!

And this was the beginning of the end!

Poor Lyzko!

Grown ups moaning about the youth....nothing new here either! :)
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #167
Granted, Germany had it's 'Wandervoegel' movement during the early 20's and other countries also had "rebellious" youth. Sure, youth's by nature (not nurture!) a rebellious animal, yet it eventually learns to settle down with solid societal models to hem in excessive behavior, drunkeness etc..

What has happened post 60's, obviously long after you were born, is that society abdicated its responsibilities as a normative, responsible standard bearer of literacy and culture. You and others of your generation are the biproduct of a drug-infested educational system that has watered down both education as well as the need for standards.

Youth have always had their "speak", yet why must youth become synoymous with stupid, ignorant, foul-mouthed and bad mannered?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #168
You and others of your generation are the biproduct of a drug-infested educational system that has watered down both education as well as the need for standards.

Since I'm more the product of a firm communist education system I doubt that very much...;)

PS: Interesting observation....even as our "big brother" was the Sovietunion and Russian was compulsory at school for decades I don't remember any russian load words which made their way into GDR German...

(Matrjoshka and Soljanka doesn't count!) ;)
Daisy 3 | 1,225
18 Dec 2010 #169
Polonius3
My great grandparents in rural Dorset still spoke Wessex dialect as a first language, it was still spoken in rural areas of Dorset and Somerset well into the 20th century, I remember my great grandparents speaking it. Thomas Hardy referred to it in a poem about WWI

I walked in loamy Wessex lanes, afar
From rail-track and from highway, and I heard
In field and farmstead many an ancient word
Of local lineage like 'Thu bist,' 'Er war,'
'Ich woll,' 'Er sholl,' and by-talk similar,
Nigh as they speak who in this month's moon gird
At England's very loins, thereunto spurred
By gangs whose glory threats and slaughters are.

Then seemed a Heart crying: 'Whosoever they be
At root and bottom of this, who flung this flame
Between kin folk kin tongued even as are we,
Sinister, ugly, lurid, be their fame;
May their familiars grow to shun their name,
And their brood perish everlastingly.'

Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #170
Of local lineage like 'Thu bist,' 'Er war,'
'Ich woll,' 'Er sholl,' and by-talk similar,

That is german!

Du bist...
Er war...
Ich wollte
Er soll
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #171
Lovely post, Daisy-:)) Many thanks. Folks here on this side of the Great Pond perhaps are ignorant of the fact that you Southern English grew up hearing, if not speaking, an English much closer to what has become 'American pronunciation' with it's final r-sounds and flat 'a's' than this hyper-unreal Oxford accent modelled after Prince Albert, Queen Vicky's hubby, who couldn't really even speak English, as he was a German from Saxe-Coburg!!!

Bratwurst Boy, what I simply meant was that your formative influences, beyond our high school, have been mired in post-Vietnam rebellion and anger at ANY system! I'm sure you had a solid education, but your comments about English, not to mention your frequent vulgarities, seem to bear me out-:)
Daisy 3 | 1,225
18 Dec 2010 #172
Bratwurst Boy
That is german!

West Saxon = Wessex
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #173
Bratwurst Boy, what I simply meant was that your formative influences, beyond our high school, have been mired in post-Vietnam rebellion and anger at ANY system! I'm sure you had a solid education, but your comments about English, not to mention your frequent vulgarities, seem to bear me out-:)

?

Bratwurst Boy
West Saxon = Wessex

Absolutely interesting!

I would had never thought that still possible understandable in the 20th century..
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #174
Compare too my point with Yorkshire dialect, in England's far north:

thar = there
skule = school

Not only Germanic, but close to Appalachian Hill's talk here in the States.

Translation: You're merely a product of your time, not necessarily of your schooling.
G.B. Shaw once remarked, after all, that the only time his education was interrupted was when he was in school LOL
Daisy 3 | 1,225
18 Dec 2010 #175
Folks here on this side of the Great Pond perhaps are ignorant of the fact that you Southern English grew up hearing

You are a tad confused, Prince Albert has nothing to do with Oxford English, blame William the B@stard and his Norman nobility, they are the ones who introduced the upper class accent, the accent you speak of is the Anglo Saxon working class/peasant accent
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #176
G.B. Shaw once remarked, after all, that the only time his education was interrupted was when he was in school

Great quote! :)
Daisy 3 | 1,225
18 Dec 2010 #177
I would had never thought that still possible understandable in the 20th century..

the dialect comes from that, not identical, although it is funny how many words from OE I understand, the only dialect words I use are

Chipole for spring onion
chiggiwig for wood louse
quiddle for squid

I use waps jokingly for wasp and everyone still uses gert for large. My grandmother used loads, smeech for smoke, nisch for someone who is week and delicate
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,698
18 Dec 2010 #178
Great! I love learning things like that....Linguistic is fascinating! :)
Lyzko
18 Dec 2010 #179
Thanks for the riposte, Daisy! Indeed so, I was confused (..and more than a tad I should say).
Am straightened out now. Your explanation of course makes absolute historical sense))

Probably knew it but just forgot that I remembered. If I never did, then I jolly well should've.
Cheers again,


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