The finer points of Polish grammar - 1 (podróżni)

Which one is correct and why?

1) Oboje podróżni wysiedli w £odzi.

2) Oboje podróżnych wysiadło w £odzi.

I'd say that the second one is proper... but I'm just a native you should wait for SzwedWPolsce to answer you ; )

i'd say #2.

oboje is a quantifier, therefore I'd collocate the verb accordingly.

Hahahaha, he makes the rest of us foreigners look bad too and to add insult to injury his English is great too.

Yes, the second one is correct.

2) Oboje podróżnych wysiadło w £odzi.

Reason:

Oboje - the collective numeral, which concords with a noun in Genetive.
Though it is worth to note that the oboje numeral has untipical syntax in combination with names of married couples.

Nevertheless in our case we have 'Oboje podróżnych'.
Other examples:
-Oboje adwokatów,
-Oboje kierowców,
-Oboje dzieci,
-Oboje drzwi,
-Oboje artystów

Thus 'Oboje podróżnych' is the sentence subject, which requires an agreeing verb in the neuter singular form, that is 'wysiadło'. So the whole sentence is:

Oboje podróżnych wysiadło w £odzi.

and that, Mr. AdamKadmon, is why Polish comes from the deepest and darkest trenches of hell.

FUZZYWICKETS

However the explanation is correct, I've wrongly used the word 'concords' - I should have used governs the Genitive case instead. This is so called case goverment not an agreement or a concord.

I'm afraid you are right, Mr Fuzzywicket (by the way, I've always asked myself if we should put a comma after 'Mr'; you have, wheras I have not). Please notice that the sentence "Obaj podróżni wysiedli w £odzi" is correct by all means. I'm sure you know how to complete the sentence "Obie podróżne .................... w £odzi".

ziemowit wrote:


afraid i'm right....or just plain disappointed.

after all, I'm the ignorant American with absolutely no credentials and until I pass the C1 exam, far too under-qualified to discuss the Polish language.

your post reeks of "holier-than-thou" my friend.

"Please notice...."

"I'm sure you know...."

paaaalleeeease.

sorry, i'll leave the polish stuff to the professionals, i guess. what was i thinking.

oh....i'd say,"wysiadly"

Poradnia językowa PWN:

...Orzeczenie w liczbie mnogiej towarzyszy słowu oboje tylko wtedy, gdy odnosi się ono do par małżeńskich, np. „Oboje rodzice wyjechali”, ale „Oboje dzieci wyjechało”.

— Mirosław Bańko

Who cares anyway?.. I am Polish and I got no freakin' clue... ;)

That's a bit of insanity in a pill right there... anyways why were you even asking if you know all that..

Hehe... I don't have a clue. And to be honest, it's not very important.

Many languages including Polish have a so-called 'dual form', such as Slovene. In English, "both" is always plural (unlike Polish in this case or even German which is related to the same immediate family as English, f.ex. "Beides IST [not SIND!!!] korrekt." = Both are correct. Then again, there's the similar use as in English "Beide Buecher gehoeren mir." = Both books belong to me) as it is for that matter in most other languages with which I'm familiar.

Mar 17, 10, 18:35 - Thread attached on merging:
The finer points of Polish grammar - 2

Write in the correct form of the words in brackets

1) Wrócił przed półtora (miesiąc).
2) Wrócił przed półtora (rok).

Weird.. I'd write it: "Wrócił półtora miesiąca temu", "wrócił półtora roku temu"...

1) Wrócił przed półtora miesiącem
2) Wrócił przed półtora rokiem

Find the incorrect word in each sentence.

1) Ten dom jest dwa i pół razy/raza/razu większy od tamtego.
2) Zrobił to półtora razy/raza/razu szybciej niż ty.

Sorry, find the correct not the incorrect.

I think that AdamKadmon is directing these "The finer points of Polish grammar" to foreigners not native Poles.. ; o

Not necessarily

Actually the correct answer is a bit different:

1) Wrócił przed półtora miesiąca
2) Wrócił przed półtora rokiem

Reason:

Firstly

Półtora (for masculine and neuter nouns);
półtorej (feminine nouns);

We've got masculine nouns ten miesiąc and ten rok.

Secondly

Półtora, półtorej (czego?). So the Genitive case.

It would be then:

półtora miesiąca and półtora rokiem

But there is one snag

As Słownik ortograficzny PWN and any other source of that kind says:

Wyjątkiem jest połączenie przed półtora rokiem, zachowujące rząd przyimkowy.

Lastly, we've arrived at the correct forms:

1) Wrócił przed półtora miesiąca
2) Wrócił przed półtora rokiem

If you try to google przed półtora rokiem and more normal for the native speakers przed półtora roku, then you get the following results:

for the first - 27,400 hits
for the second - 44,100 hits

So native speakers intuition seem to be not a good guide in this respect.

QED

Sorry, I should have write

Secondly

Półtora, półtorej (czego?). So the Genitive case.

It would be then:

półtora miesiąca and półtora roku

.....półtora tygodnikA......., dniA........, latA etc..... (though not for the same reasons as with 'tydzień' or 'dzień'!!!)

"Półtora lata" would be incorrect.

- pół roku
- rok
- półtora roku
- dwa lata

Dzięki:-)