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Too many English words in the Polish language!


Michal - | 1,865
19 Jan 2010 #121
To me polish is like russian.

No, Czech is more like Russian than Polish is. Czech is similar to Serb and Russian whilst Polish has more of a German influence.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
19 Jan 2010 #122
Would you care to elaborate? I am Czech and have studied Russian for 8 years - I did not see any major similarities apart from the obvious fact that both are Slavonic languages.
Lyzko
19 Jan 2010 #123
"....much needed for progress."

You're joking, I take it:-) How is it "progress" to apprend vocabulary from another language and then use it incorrectly, primarily for snob appeal???

World English proficiency, using the term very loosely, really has become for youth everywhere (including me way back when!!) like owning one's first driving license; you want it so badly, you're willing to lie about it!

No, I'm not sure it's progress, Honest George, or regress cleverly disguised as the former. lol

Merely to interject once more (groan..!), I'm reminded at this juncture of what the great Voltaire is alleged to have remarked when it was suggested to him by a friend that when the Great Man journey across the waters to visit his contemporary of letters, Lord Chesterton, that he, Voltaire, impress him by learning to speak some English. "But my dear", Voltaire is supposed to have replied, "why ever should I? After all, what is English anyhow, but French spoken badly!"

))))

You just can't make this stuff up!
Sparkle_Ravelle 4 | 11
22 Jan 2010 #124
Again, I ask the same annoying question; How many out there who claim to know and love English are familiar with Shakespeare, Gilbert & Sullivan, Flanders & Swan, Tom Lehrer, Mark Russell or any number of other great wordsmiths of the English language?

Flanders & Swan? 'Ma's out, Pa's out, let's play rude. Pee po belly bum drawers'
Ha! Brilliant!
Lyzko
22 Jan 2010 #125
Brilliant, indeed! -:)

Or how about Our great Mikado, virtuous man
When he to rule our land began,
Devised to try, a plan whereby,
Young men might best be steadied.
So he decreed in words succinct,
That all who flirted, leered or winked,
Unless connubially linked,
Should forthwith be beheaded......

I recently read of a performance in Poland, The Warsaw State Arts Theater, I believe, of G&S IN POLISH much less!!! ))))

Now, isn't that rather missing the whole point? Imagine Mickiewicz's "Pan Tadeusz", let alone Maniuszko's "Halinka", in English! LOL
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
22 Jan 2010 #126
And what's so funny about that?

BTW - it's HALKA, not HALINKA ;-p
bravo 4 | 63
22 Jan 2010 #127
To the original thread....To jest fine.
Lyzko
22 Jan 2010 #128
Thanks, Madzia! Thought it looked wrong:-))) But I'd already clicked it. lol
MatCh - | 1
22 Jan 2010 #129
I'm also against mixing words from two totally different languages. This situation is most visible in "technical" aspect of polish language, when, instead of translating English names of brand-new, freshly developed devices, we simply use them. And even if we have our own name for sth, we don't use it, for example there is touchpad in laptops, and only few people know that there is polish name "gładzik" for this same part of notebook.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,217
22 Jan 2010 #130
Back to Polish, Polish, like German, still uses its own word for Stock Exchange (giełda), even though most financial vocabulary in many languages today is English. How come then? Is it not remotely possible that certain expressions in the mother tongue simply hit the nail on the head more accurately than second-rate imports???

I think that giełda is a polonised import from German (the English language has "guild" which is probably an associated word to some German one). Then, several important Polish words concerning capital markets are mostly of French origin: hossa (hausse), bessa (baisse), akcja (action). For many things we have our own words: udziałowiec/akcjonariusz (shareholder), rights issue (prawa poboru), makler (broker). For modern instruments they are often English: opcja typu call/put.
Lyzko
22 Jan 2010 #131
True. I think only Icelandic (possibly French and Spanish from Spain too) uses it's own roots from which to draw neoligsms, e.g. computer vs. ordenateur, or Spanish ordenador, though New World Spanish glady has adopted 'computadora' etc...
Trevek 26 | 1,702
22 Jan 2010 #132
I think Finnish might (I know it used to).
Lyzko
22 Jan 2010 #133
Finnish also has its goodly share of Swedish loanwords from the Vasa Period. As far as coinages are concerned however, you might be correct. I know Hungarian as well as Turkish, coincidentally, have their own native word(s) for 'computer' as well as several others, whose international versions are in common use amongst the rest of the world's languages!
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
22 Jan 2010 #134
What do you think?

It's called the 21st century, dude, get used to it :) Oh, you want to stay in the 20th or the 18th? Well, fine with me, just go right ahead ;)

I think that it is the uneducated who speak like that

What are you talking about? You said yourself you don't visit PL, but keep in touch by watching polish soaps, LOL. Do you take yourself serious? Apparently not, otherwise I can't imagine you do.

Again a thread about nothing, just some conservative souls who spout their frustration about the changing world.

>^..^<

M-G (if you don't like it, just get used to it, there ain't nothing that you can do to change it)
Lyzko
23 Jan 2010 #135
Frankly, I think certain of the previous points made have some merit. After all, it is the lazy who adapt blindly to change without reserving judgement as to whether this change is for the better or the worse, to the detrement or the improvement of our lot.

Most Germans followed Hitler like lemmings, again, because this was the New Order, and getting with it, meant for many, succeeding.

Figure we all learned, that new doesn't necessarily mean good:-)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
24 Jan 2010 #136
Finnish also has its goodly share of Swedish loanwords from the Vasa Period.

Ah, I'd hear they did a bit of linguistic ethnic cleansing after independence, but maybe it dealt mainly with new words. Turkey, I believe, got rid of many Arabian words but kind of defeated the object by replacing them with French ones.
Lyzko
24 Jan 2010 #137
I heard that Finnish needed some sorely lacking consonants from Hungarian, and so the Finns made a pact (informal, of course!) with the Hungarians to borrow from the latter said consonants.

It probably worked out all right. Doubtless the story is apocryphal, then again, all too many a great story has been ruined by over verification:-)

You might be right about the 'linguistic cleansing', Trevek. Most such housekeeping measures came about after WWII.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
25 Jan 2010 #138
Imagine Mickiewicz's "Pan Tadeusz", let alone Maniuszko's "Halinka", in English! LOL

No need to imagine. Just get a copy of an English translation.
There are 3 translations available as of today:

antoranz.net/BIBLIOTEKA/PT051225/PanTad-eng/PT-Start.htm

this one being the latest.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
25 Jan 2010 #139
Finnish also has its goodly share of Swedish loanwords

Don't forget some 5-10% of Finns speak Swedish as their native tongue. Some coastal areas of Finland are predominantly Swedish speaking so it's easy for both cultures to borrow words from eachother. Finland by the way is a Swedish word - it's Suomi in Finnish. Likewise a Finn is called Suomalainen. Just apropo...

I heard that Finnish needed some sorely lacking consonants...

You think? :). ...here's just a taste...

Haitin tukikonsertti tuotti ennätykselliset 57 miljoonaa dollaria

Poptähti Madonna esiintyi "Hope For Haiti" -hyväntekeväisyyskonsertissa. Konsertilla kerättiin 40 miljoonaa euroa maanjäristyksen uhreille.

LOS ANGELES. Haitin maanjäristyksen uhrien auttamiseksi järjestetty suurkonsertti keräsi lauantaina yli 57 miljoonan dollarin tuoton. Summa vastaa 40:tä miljoonaa euroa.

...
hs.fi/ulkomaat/artikkeli/Haitin+tukikonsertti+tuotti+ennätykselliset+57+miljoonaa+dollaria/1135252360818

Imagine Mickiewicz's "Pan Tadeusz" let alone Maniuszko's "Halinka", in English! LOL

Litwo - Naturalized Citizen Residency Moja...

Would that work? :)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jan 2010 #140
You might be right about the 'linguistic cleansing', Trevek. Most such housekeeping measures came about after WWII.

Apparently it wasn't as widespread as I'd thought but there are two official dictionaries; one of Finnish words and one of loanwords. that said, they do make some new words based on Finnish.

Some modern terms have been synthesised rather than borrowed, for example:

According to wiki (so it must be true):

puhelin "telephone" (literally: "chatter" + instrument suffix "-in" to make "an instrument for chattering")
tietokone "computer" (literally: "knowledge machine")
levyke "diskette" (from levy "disc" + a diminutive -ke)
sähköposti "email" (literally: "electrical mail")
linja-auto "bus" (literally: route-car)
Neologisms are actively generated by the Language Planning Office and the media. They are widely adopted. One would actually give an old-fashioned or rustic impression using forms such as telefooni or kompuutteri when the neologism is widely adopted.


Before the mods delete this, it is meant as an example of how Polish could do the same if it wanted to.
Lyzko
25 Jan 2010 #141
Yes, most Finns speak far better Swedish than English. Typically though, they'd prefer to speak imperfect English than fluent Swedish as a second language simply to fit in-:)
Michal - | 1,865
27 Jan 2010 #142
Magdalena
If you studied Russian for eight years your Russian should be very good if you know Czech. If not, either you are stupid or you need to change teachers.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
27 Jan 2010 #143
I never said my Russian wasn't good enough. I merely stated that in my opinion, Russian is no more similar to Czech than to Polish or other Western Slavonic languages. If there are such striking similarities, why don't you quote some for my instruction and enjoyment?
Scorpion ext ru - | 8
28 Jan 2010 #144
Or pierogi... How are they called in UK or in America ?

I think its (pies) pierog= pie , if you Edit it its all the same pieROG=pie
Rogalski 5 | 94
28 Jan 2010 #145
I have heard English-speaking South Africans call them "pierogs" (long 'o').
Lyzko
29 Jan 2010 #147
Well, I didn't KNOW that.

Remember, always infinitive (bezokolicznik) following auxilliary!!!

(So much for broken English being the universal language. Maybe, I wouldn't even have understood you. There are rules, you know.)
Olaf 6 | 956
29 Jan 2010 #148
Apart from Esperanto, there are other artificial languages: ido, interlingua and volapük. There exist/ed couple of dozens more, but less popular. Anyway they do not have native speakers, so they would have to be imposed somehow. I think English serves the role of international language now as it is fairly eaasy, not as rich as e.g. Russian and has much more simple grammar than e.g. Latin, or Finnish or.. Polish. Before that French was common. Also colonization helped in spreading "countles" places English, French, but also Spanish, Dutch (Aafrikans in RSA is based on it), Portugeese. I guess English is still official language in many places outside the UK (India?, Singapore).

As many of you said it is a natural process to influence one language by another. Almost any language borrowed some things from others. BUT it's not like we should all instantly accept it without thought some foreign words and expressions as Polish.

There are Polish words for almost everything.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
1 Feb 2010 #149
Apart from Esperanto, there are other artificial languages: ido, interlingua and volapük.

Apparently Klingon is the second largest artificial language after Esperanto.

Anyway they do not have native speakers, so they would have to be imposed somehow.

Apparently there are a small number of native Esperanto speakers, who have been brought up with it as a primary language. george Soros is one.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Esperanto_speakers
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
1 Feb 2010 #150
.... I think English serves the role of international language now as it is fairly eaasy, not as rich as e.g. Russian and has much more simple grammar than e.g. Latin, or Finnish or.. Polish...

So what are you basing your observation on?

askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutenglish/mostwords

Apparently there are a small number of native esperanto speakers, who have been brought up with it as a primary language. george Soros is one.

George Soros was brought up on socialism and communism while using the capitalist system to enrich himself - not Esperanto.


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