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What "YOU" is the correct one? Polish language question.


Nightshadow
6 May 2019  #1
Hello. I'm learning polish. Can anyone explain this to me, please?

Google Translate:

Polish:
tobie, ciebie, ty. Dla tobie, dla ciebie, dla ty. o tobie o ciebie, o ty.

English:
you, you, you. For you, for you, for you. about you, about you, about you.


Now... what the heck?
Wich one is the correct one? What any of those really mean? It's so frustrating.....

Thank you!
bolek_tusk 3 | 265
6 May 2019  #2
You need to study Polish grammar. Check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declension

Polish is probably one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. Personally, I'd suggest you forget about trying to learn it, it's just too hard.

If you want to learn it you need to study it INTENSIVELY.
Rich Mazur 5 | 3,134
6 May 2019  #3
Polish is probably one of the hardest languages in the world to learn.

That's why God created Adam, Eve, and English.
mafketis 19 | 6,902
6 May 2019  #4
tobie, ciebie, ty. Dla tobie, dla ciebie, dla ty. o tobie o ciebie, o ty.

these are different cases of the pronoun ty (you, singular, familiar, like Spanish, French Italian tu, German du)
tobie - date case 'to you' 'for you',
ciebie - accusative and genetive (you, your)
ty - nominative case (you, by itself or as the subject of a sentence)

Dla tobie - mistake no such form exists

dla ciebie - for you

dla ty - mistake, no such form exists

o tobie - locative case (about you)

o ciebie - for/about you preposition o 'about' and ciebie 'accusative of ty'

o ty - vocative 'oh you...' (should be followed by a noun in the vocative case
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #5
What's confusing in Polish for example, is when to apply this idea of code switching. Using "Ty" as a man to another (adult) man, might signify a homosexual

relationship (as opposed to among male children, at school, camp etc.). Whereas "Pan" when the two adults are good acquaintances, might well be seen by

the other person as standoffish and aloof.
kaprys 2 | 1,677
6 May 2019  #6
Not really. ... there's nothing homosexual about using 'Ty'
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #7
True enough, then again, it might too:-) It can be dicey for foreigners, I'll say that much.
kaprys 2 | 1,677
6 May 2019  #8
No, no, no ...
Really no ...
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #9
Polish male friends have said different. Then again, it might be entirely innocent, as you suggest.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,367
6 May 2019  #10
Using "Ty" as a man to another (adult) man, might signify a homosexual

It is quite natural between men of young adult age (e.g. students).
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #11
Naturally, I never meant to imply anything other than that!
I meant simply that in a given situation in which an adult male STRANGER over, say, twenty, or twenty-five (other than a foreigner or non-Pole) uses "Ty" in an unfamiliar social situation, a pub patron for example, it might be misconstrued as a gay hook up.

That's all I wanted to say:-)
kaprys 2 | 1,677
6 May 2019  #12
No ... really no.
Especially in a pub or a club hardly anyone would address another guy as Pan. And it applies to middle -aged men as well. I don't really see the elderly in such places. They might use Pan but otherwise it's Ty.

Even in a professional situation, if a guy uses Ty instead of Pan, he will be perceived as being colloqial or rude but not gay.
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #13
A manager whom I know from Warsaw, told me that while this may be true nowadays, nevertheless, he as a fourty-five year-old would feel
strange if someone he doesn't know,a nother man who is older, addressed him with "Ty", rather than "Pan on the first meeting:-)

Possibly this is a cultural projection from the German or French-speaking realm in which code-switching is QUITE complicated.

In this respect, Poland sounds like Scandinavia!
kaprys 2 | 1,677
6 May 2019  #14
Perhaps strange but not gay. ...
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #15
Oh, surely not in all instances, kaprys! This is what I was explaining:-)
Ironside 47 | 9,586
6 May 2019  #16
Using "Ty" as a man to another (adult) man, might signify a homosexual

What A BS. What are you about? That is a pure nonsense.

Usage of TY:

Depends on few variables:

- age
-gender
-relations
- circumstances
- a respective social position (i.e. standing)

No sexual conations apart from the obvious one - if a man and women were intimate those rules do not apply. Well I guess you can pack it with relations.
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
6 May 2019  #17
For the last time, Ironside, you're right about "Ty"!

I'm right as well. However, it might also be as I said, in a given situation:-)
Let's not exclude ALL the facts. I have them on good authority.
Jaskier
7 May 2019  #18
No Lyzko . Under NO circumstances will using Ty form be mistaken as a guy hitting on another guy unless he really is hitting on him.
mafketis 19 | 6,902
7 May 2019  #19
Under NO circumstances will using Ty form be mistaken as a guy hitting on another guy

Yes, just using ty by itself would not have that connotation, there were probably other things going on that he missed (or they were just messing with him)

I remember years ago a friend rewrote a conversation in a Polish textbook for me. The conversation was supposed to be between two male students... but the book was written by a middle aged lady and the register was so old-fashioned and flowery he said that a man using it would sound pretty gay...
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
7 May 2019  #20
Jaskier, I never mentioned violence, did I? Nobody ever mentioned hitting on anyone:-) Somebody hit's on me, I just hit him back, gay, straight or indifferent.

Maf, you do have a point.
kaprys 2 | 1,677
7 May 2019  #21
@Lyzko
Let me help you with English phrasal verbs. Here's a definition of 'hit on sb'

google.com/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/pl/amp/english/hit-on-sb

I also believe you should have written 'somebody hits' rather than 'somebody hit's' but I'm not sure ;)
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
7 May 2019  #22
thanks, kaprys:-)

Guess the Archie Bunker comes out in me at the weirdest times, he-he!
Joker 1 | 857
8 May 2019  #23
Remember this one with the Polish Cop?

youtu.be/hSL2Y9UpEOM

Times have sure changed...........
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
8 May 2019  #24
Served him dead right too:-) So true, Joker. That's scriptwriter would've gotten themselves canned big time now.

Ya never know who's listening!
lol
Przelotnyptak1 - | 93
8 May 2019  #25
I'm right as well. However, it might also be as I said, in a given situation:-)

To avoid misunderstanding I am speaking about the word "Ty" and imaginary connection to homosexuality. While exchange is the most convoluted, stubborn attempt to prove.

Own ignorance of anything. Polish, but that's Lyzko
Lyzko 20 | 6,335
8 May 2019  #26
Scarcely ignorance, przelotnyptak!

You're confusing lack of knowledge with one's personal experience:-)
Native Polish speakers have concurred with me on this point, albeit pointing out
that my example drawn was rare indeed!
Jaskier
8 May 2019  #27
Not rare but wrong!
pawian 155 | 8,612
8 May 2019  #28
Under NO circumstances will using Ty form be mistaken as a guy hitting on another guy

That`s true. It has nothing to do with being gay, only rude if it is spoken by a stranger to an adult man.
kaprys 2 | 1,677
8 May 2019  #29
I wonder if enough native speakers of Polish have confirmed there's nothing homosexual using 'Ty' when addressing another man.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,703
8 May 2019  #30
Can I confirm it as a non-native speaker? ;)


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