cookery, word usage question

i was talking to my cousin about making a shepherds pie, we seem to get stuck, or rather i did on the words for ' pie'

i was explaining about the posiekać wieprzowina nadzenie, z ziemniaczane topping(i dont know the word for this). and then explained how we call this 'shepherds pie' or 'cottage pie'.

the word pasztecik seems to fit.
could someone clarify this dilema.

chaza

There's no equivalent to 'pie' in any of its meanings in Polish cuisine AFAICT.

pasztecik does not fit, that's a croquette

I'd call it a kind of zapiekanka (lit. casserole) since it's baked.

Eng 'pie' is often translated as 'ciastko' or 'ciasto' (sometimes 'placek'), however the problem is that the meaning of 'pie' is wider then the above Polish words. First of all, those Polish words are only used for pies that are sweet, so we can say that Polish 'ciasto' (or ciastko) can be understood as 'sweet pie'. But what about all 'non-sweet pies' (like the mentioned shepherds pie)? There's no single word to word translation of them. I'm afraid, that in may cases there's no such translation at all, and you must use some descriptive name instead.

I think the most usable word could be 'zapiekanka' which indicates all kinds of hot and usually non-sweet dishes made of many different ingridients.

The problem with translating names exists between all languages, mostly because food recipes ara as much local (or even more) as the languages. So what has been developed in one area is not known (and therefore not named) in the other.

Cinek

I'd translate ciasto and placek more as 'cake'. I've never had a sweet dish in Poland that I'd call 'pie'. The closest was a local bakery that make something sort of like cherry pie (I forget what they called it).

Wikipedia uses

zapiekanka wiejska = cottage pie

zapiekanka pasterska = shepherd's pie

Also be warned when talking about British food with Polish people. The traditional stereotype in Poland is that British food is horrible.

Bullseye!

thanks for all your input, i do appreciate the difference in dishes, which is why it seemed to be so troublesome.

chaza

Not only in Poland.

Poles think all food is inferior to polish food for some insane reason.

Ask the French, Spanish, Chinese, Indians or most other nationalities - they will say their cuisine is by far the best. It's totally natural to love to eat what Mama used to cook ;-)

The only exceptions to this rule that I can think of are the Americans - for obvious melting pot reasons - and the British - because of massive culinary exchange with their former colonies.

The French? well, goes with out saying - the only nation in Europe as nationalistic as the the Poles ; )

As for the others - I'm not so sure. I know a few Spaniards who prefer Asian food. I know a few Chinese people who prefer Italian food to their own.

Doesn't prove anything in itself I know, but i don't really know very many Spanish or Chinese people either.

You should watch English cookery programs more often. I can think of a couple of outstanding British chefs (apart from the obvious like Nigella Lawson - but who cares what she is cooking, since people just watch her, not her cooking - , Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsay).

There are the likes of James Martin, Rick Stein (if you like fish), Galton Blackiston, Gino D'Acampo (for Italian), Levi Roots (for Jamaican), Marcus Wareing, Michael Caines, Paul Rankin, Richard Corrigan, Stephen Terry, Tom Kitchin, Alain Ducasse, etc ... etc ... etc ...

I agree Stu - but she is saying national "cuisine" as opposed to the food they create.

Paul Rankin & Richard Corrigan are Irish by the way : )

Yes, you are right ... they are. But they cook like angels. So I thought it would be a shame not to mention them.

When they are sick, or lonely, or miss home - what foods will they turn to then? I am pretty sure that they would choose the kind of stuff they used to eat as little kids. We are all quite chauvinistic in our innermost being... Not that there's anything wrong with that ;-)

Yeah you are maybe right.

Although I would turn to Thai on most occasions, regardless : )

80% of people in Poland know nothing about their levels of cholesterol, 70% of them do not know their glucose blood level, and 66% think themselves in good condition of health - is the outcome of the National Health Test.

Really??

Do you have a link?

Ireland isn't exactly known to be the land of the healthy but everyone I know could be almost guaranteed to know their cholesterol levels at least.

Re translating savoury pies into Polish, the pieróg or kulebiak of eatsern Poland might be considered, as it is a pastry encasing some filling. Also pasztet w cieście was one of the offerings of Old Poland's manorhouse circuit. That crust-encased pasztet was not the pâté we associate with that word nowadays but could be sliced or chunked meat, poultry or fish.

Sweets pies or tartes can be called tarta z jabłkami or placek z wiśniami. The popular szarlotka comes pretty close to the American apple pie except for its non-circular shape.

This insidious lie needs to be laid to rest. I like szarlotka but the taste (and pastry part) is not like real apple pie.