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Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers


Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,747
28 Jul 2010 #91
And how were they supposed to keep it together exactly?

How did other countries manage that?
Seanus 15 | 19,674
28 Jul 2010 #92
Did all other countries manage that?
Paulina 16 | 4,192
28 Jul 2010 #93
You didn't really expect a strong Germany to just accept the theft of Danzig, didn't you?

Wait a minute... You wrote it wasn't really about Danzig.

Poland didn't even exist till the Treaty of Versailles shuffled borders and gave you your country.

Poland existed since 1918 till 1939 and in those 20 years of independence there was no war with Third Reich and Poland and Third Reich were not enemies.

To save their country and millions of people??? Just a guess...

And how would they know that? Poland was at some time at war with bolshevik Russia and didn't lose independence. How could they know that consequences would be so dreadful?

I'm the only one having the patience to answer some of your really inane...erm..uninformed questions.

OK, but did you read those books you mentioned?

Well, there wasn't no declaration from the Germans either...didn't stop the polish army from fighting!

But they didn't fight against the Red Army as far as it was possible. So I guess they picked a side to some point.

You are bringing neither new arguments nor facts to the discussion.
Your whole argumentation reminds me about elementary school history...only superficial facts clad in some white washing and done with it.

I don't know much, that's true. But you don't have to discuss anything with me, I'm not forcing you ;)

History is a different beast and rarely only black and white..

The Nazis were pretty black to me...
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,747
28 Jul 2010 #94
The Nazis were pretty black to me...

Oh they were...but they didn't jump out of nothing one bright summer day.
Hitler came to power on the back on some serious and justified grievances the german people had.
That he in the end gave a flying **** about them was another late and hard learned lesson.

As I said, Hitler would had given up all claims for Danzig when Poland would had agreed to other (for him more important) points.

That is also why I say he made up his enemies and allies as he did go along...a neutral or allied Poland would had gotten a super duper treatment instead of the sub-human speeches.

He had no problems to use muslims or asians if they could be of any help...even the Hiwis (russian voluntary helpers of the Wehrmacht) were seen as cool.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_(volunteer)

Not to mention the also slavic russian resistance who fighted with the Wehrmacht against the Red Army.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

Slav or no Slav was really not THAT much a problem in the end!

You wrote it wasn't really about Danzig.

No it wasn't...but Danzig made a really fine excuse.
What do you think about the Danzig case? Imagine it would be the other way around?

Poland existed since 1918 till 1939 and in those 20 years of independence there was no war with Third Reich and Poland and Third Reich were not enemies.

Nope...Hitler tried till shortly before the invasion to get Poland on his good side...

How could they know that consequences would be so dreadful?

They didn't think that far...believing London and Paris would send immediately their armies...

But you don't have to discuss anything with me, I'm not forcing you ;)

Then stop asking me things! ;)
convex 20 | 3,930
29 Jul 2010 #95
Poland map
history of poland
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
29 Jul 2010 #96
Poland did behave as greedy and agressive the moment it could as most other countries did.

The person who is losing the argument always attempts to justify his/her point by projecting some sort of 'equivalency' - that situations, plights, complications, conjectures, etc. are either all 'relative' or the same. They are not!

I think Poland should had negotiated with Germany and made concessions.

When one starts negotiations with automatic concessions, (then) they are not really negotiations.

You never had to walk in their boots a minute......

It must have been tiring goose-stepping like that.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,747
29 Jul 2010 #97
When the other tries to paint themself as some lily white, innocent, goody-two-shoes it just needs some reminder...

When one starts negotiations with automatic concessions, (then) they are not really negotiations.

Read the links....Hitler was astounishing flexible...he would had gone quite far if there
had been negotiations in the first place.

It must have been tiring goose-stepping like that.

I've read it was hell on the heels...
Ogorki - | 114
5 Sep 2010 #98
This 3 year old was the responsibility of the German adults - whom asked for it. Simple.

Otherwise Polish bragging and deliberately p*issing of their mighty neighbours and even demanding more german lands as the Treaty of Versailles already granted you can't be explained. YOU ASKED FOR AN ARSE KICK!

...like a scratched record...you getting booooring now.

fd

Gdansk was created by a Slavic Monk. The first Polish King made Gdansk Polish before the
Hanseatic League took over, then the Prussians, then finally the Germans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,747
5 Sep 2010 #99
Hanseatic League took over

The Hanseatic Leage WAS german, so had been the Prussians! *rolls eyes*

It seems you don't have enough lessons from the record yet!
Seanus 15 | 19,674
6 Sep 2010 #100
vimeo.com/8350695, video of David Jakubowski, Polish Army captain in Warsaw and Holocaust survivor. This man is a great source of info.
LAGirl 9 | 496
13 Sep 2010 #101
I been to the uprising museum in Warsaw very touching.
nott 3 | 594
13 Sep 2010 #102
Nope...Hitler tried till shortly before the invasion to get Poland on his good side...

There was a 10 year non-aggression pact of 1934, with Germany recognizing its Eastern borders.

German policy changed drastically in late 1938, after the annexation of Sudetenland sealed the fate of Czechoslovakia and Poland became Hitler's next target. This a Wiki interpretation, so you might not agree. However, 1934 + 10 seems a bit later later than 1938, innit? Hitler broke the pact with provocative demands.

BB, Poland is not responsible for the WW2. Western Poland of 1920 was nothing more that Poland had before the partitions, and even slightly less. Poznan was never a German city. It's not like everything becomes German forever, wherever a German foot trod once. Stop being ridiculous, please.

I understand you want to grow some balls after three generations of kowtow. But please.
Varsovian 91 | 634
1 Oct 2010 #103
Pęcice - last skirmishes in the Warsaw Uprising

My daughter walked a long way through the rain yesterday to attend a commemoration of the fighters who fell at Pęcice, to the west of Warsaw.

Several schools in the gmina attend every year. The usual sort of affair, plus steaming tea and grochówka.

Strangely, I sold my house in England to one of the fighters (who then ended up in Auschwitz as a prisoner of war).
meluzyna - | 1
24 Mar 2011 #104
The guy second from left in the white shirt and beret is my great grandfather Mikolaj

Hi there!
I am his granddaughter, so I guess that makes us family. Now I am just very, very, very curious how exactly we are connected... I cannot write PMs, though. Could you contact me by sending one?
Ogorki - | 114
25 Mar 2011 #105
The Hanseatic Leage WAS german, so had been the Prussians! *rolls eyes*

It seems you don't have enough lessons from the record yet!

YYAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNN!!!! Sorry just read your reply.

I did not say they were not Germans - merely three stages in "German people's" history

The Hanseatic Leage first took Polish lands around 1400 ish - Germany did not exist then.
Then Prussia Took some more Polish lands around 1600 ish - Germany did not exist then.

Then GERMANY was born around 1870 ish - and the GERMANS took more Polish Lands.

Do I have to spell EVERYTHING out?

(PS - Lubeck was originally a Slavic settlement)

Some Poles were worse than the Nazis. Some were the polar opposite. The vast majority were somewhere in the middle. Not that an immigrant like you will ever admit that any Pole was ever anything like as bad as the Nazis

Harry - how do you know this? Anything but first hand knowledge does not justify your claims. So - justify your claims - or shut the fack up. Theres a good boy.

er,no "he" didnt....if the ghetto area was flattened what are all those buildings doing standing by the time of the 44 uprising?Ya know,the supposedly flattened buildings that the AK fought over and through to release the inmates .....

- the warsaw ghetto WAS flattened after the Jewish uprising. The second uprising was the main one which took part in the rest of warsaw which was STILL STANDING.
THE HITMAN - | 236
25 Mar 2011 #106
I think Poland would had fared much better with much less losses of life and complete
destruction if they had allied with one of it's juggernaut neighbours...not aggravating both of them and trusting totally naive far away empty words from London and Paris.

Problem is,...... they don,t teach such facts in school history lessons. As BB says, one must research these facts, and what better way is there than the internet.

Actually another way is to obtain knowledge at first hand, for example talking to those who lived in those times. Personally I have blood connections on all sides of the borders ( what a mixture ), that actually experienced both wars.

So take it from me, it,s hard to accept the truth when you have been brought up in a brainwashed society, but what BB is saying, is not without substance. I concur with the above quotes and I,m not German.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
25 Mar 2011 #107
Problem is,...... they don,t teach such facts in school history lessons. As BB says, one must research these facts, and what better way is there than the internet.

Alas, when you live in a country where people scream UNPATRIOTISM at the slightest criticism of Poland, it's very hard to actually teach facts in school as opposed to what the collective consciousness demands.

The fact that the Polish school programme seems more or less designed to deliberately avoid teaching about the PRL and the early 1990's says it all.

Certainly, some of those AK members were hardly innocent - we all know how they terrorised people who were on the same side.

As for the leadership - whoever sent children into a completely unnecessary battle should have been executed for war crimes.
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
10 Jul 2011 #108
Of course,this doesnt mean your relative did not take part in the Up-Rising.
Depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on etc there are various organisations that *may* be able to help you. Records were kept but often are patchy at best but even if your relative wasnt a formal member of the resistence this doesnt mean they didnt take part.

Just can't stop yourself, can you?

neither can you,tell me,just what made you such a bitter,tragic person that you have to denegrate the memory of dead children?

As for the leadership - whoever sent children into a completely unnecessary battle should have been executed for war crimes.

Id rather my child died on its feet facing its oppressors than dragged out of a celler to be shot clinging to its mothers hem................or burnt alive in a church...............or raped to death by a gang of ukrainians..............

So, delphi, p!ss off with the negativity,its unseemly.
Besides,as anyone with half a brain cell and no axe to grind knows that "children" were not encouraged into combat roles but support roles,in exactly the same way Boy Scouts and young girls were mobilised during the London Blitz.

Did some under 18s pick up guns and fight? Of course they did,I imagine street kids or traumatized kids in any culture would do the same in the situation.....
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
10 Jul 2011 #109
neither can you,tell me,just what made you such a bitter,tragic person that you have to denegrate the memory of dead children?

What disgusts me is that they died in vain - they were sent into a battle which was unwinnable, on the whim of some very poor leadership. I remember when I first read about the Uprising - I couldn't believe the sheer stupidity of it all, and how children were essentially used to further the motives of some very questionable leadership.

Those children are heroes, but the leadership - well.

Id rather my child died on its feet facing its oppressors than dragged out of a celler to be shot clinging to its mothers hem................or burnt alive in a church...............or raped to death by a gang of ukrainians..............

Wouldn't you be happier that your child wasn't sent to the slaughter needlessly?

I still think that Poland's greatest chance would have been to lie passive while the Soviets rushed on Berlin - only to then cut the Soviet supply lines. The Western Allies wouldn't have interfered (look at the reaction towards Finland - utter disinterest) - and the Soviets would've had huge problems with the AK. The Soviets would've already had to deal with a hell of a battle for Warsaw - would they really have done so well if they were suddenly faced with a rebellion from previously passive Poles?
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
10 Jul 2011 #110
I still think that Poland's greatest chance would have been to lie passive while the Soviets rushed on Berlin

Me too,but I choose appropriate forums for those sort of discusions,not a thread started by someone who has just lost a relative who may or may not have been in Warsaw in '44.
Ironside 53 | 12,337
10 Jul 2011 #111
I still think that Poland's greatest chance would have been to lie passive while the Soviets rushed on Berlin - only to then cut the Soviet supply lines.

You take soviets for fools !
PennBoy 76 | 2,432
19 Sep 2012 #112
Read this a few years back thought I'd share it, thought it was the best eye witness account of what happened during the Warsaw Uprising:

warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm
Harry
19 Sep 2012 #113
Read this a few years back thought I'd share it, thought it was the best eye witness account of what happened during the Warsaw Uprising

I've also read that a few times. Should be required reading for anybody who claims to be at all interested in the Warsaw Uprising.
4 eigner 2 | 831
19 Sep 2012 #114
Gdansk was created by a Slavic Monk.

wrong, that Monk from Prague only mentioned urbs Gyddanyzc in his biography. The settlement already existed when he first arrived there.

around 50 BC- 600 AD the Goths settlement of Southeast Sweden.

7.-9. Century Slavic settlement Danzig (Pomorans), who mixed with the remaining Goths and Prussians (mainly east of the Vistula).

997 Prussian missionary Adalbert of Prague first mentioned urbs (settlement) Gyddanyzc in his biography
isthatu2 4 | 2,694
19 Sep 2012 #115
Urbs is more often translated as Town or Large Town (even City,but unless you live in the USA where cities can be the size of European villages that gets confusing as they were tiny by modern standards), a couple of steps up from settlement.......
PennBoy 76 | 2,432
19 Sep 2012 #116
Why is it that in the US there are so many towns and cities ending in ville and in the UK hardly any? what's the British counterpart?
4 eigner 2 | 831
19 Sep 2012 #117
Urbs is more often translated as Town or Large Town....

It's not my translation. I found it online the way it is and posted it here to correct his statement about the Slavic monk.


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