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just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian


Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #151
The ATC has a lot to do with Turkey's prospective accession to the EU, Sok. You know that and I know that.

I'll stick with being a Scot, Sok. Fewer petty squabbles ;)
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
11 Mar 2010  #152
I'll stick with being a Scot, Sok. Fewer petty squabbles ;)

...any more. How is that in Scottish? ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
11 Mar 2010  #153
The ATC has a lot to do with Turkey's prospective accession to the EU, Sok. You know that and I know that.

There's a lot beyond ATC that makes various short sighted people vouch for Turkey, the bottom line is however that Turkey counts and Ukraine does not, not even in the region.

I'll stick with being a Scot, Sok. Fewer petty squabbles ;)

You betrayed Mel Gibson.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
11 Mar 2010  #154
I believe that if your, Ukrainian, national process had taken partin a different time, you would be able to just sign out of the Union (not that we would be happy, we would have made obstacles, of course). But it was the war, and you were too savage to slow yourself down.

You made obstacles, because it was a war
And we were too savage to slow ourselves down ;)

You mean backwards Ukraine with a shrinking economy and a false history built on national complexes, a country shunned by Europe and looked down upon by Russia is a "beatifull thing"?

No, I mean a beautiful country Ukraine, which I love not because I have a Mercedes (I don't), not because I have caviar on the table (I don't), but because it is my country and I will go through bad and good with it.

you antagonize one of the few countries that gives a pencil about your well being.

S, stick this pencil up your ars*. Do you think I give a slightest crap about respect from others, especially from you? ;)
Torq 26 | 2,371
11 Mar 2010  #155
No, I mean a beautiful country (...), which I love not because I have a Mercedes (I don't), not because I have caviar on the table (I don't), but because it is my country and I will go through bad and good with it.

That's a very Polish thing to say, Nathan.

I see that influence of Polish reign over Ukraine is visible even in their young
population today - good! ;)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
11 Mar 2010  #156
I see that influence of Polish reign over Ukraine is visible even in their young
population today - good! ;)

you sure, maybe it was the other way around;) lol
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
11 Mar 2010  #157
S, stick this pencil up your ars*. Do you think I give a slightest crap about respect from others, especially from you? ;)

Its not about what you care for or not, allies are key to long term survival, Ukraine has no allies and only Poland as a prospective one and your govt and your people do everything in their power to turn all that valuable support away from you.

That's a very Polish thing to say, Nathan.

I see that influence of Polish reign over Ukraine is visible even in their young
population today - good! ;)

True true, we raised them well in some places :))))
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #158
Ony mair, Ksysia. Sok, business is business, you know that. The ATC is a business pillar.

I betrayed no-one
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
11 Mar 2010  #159
Ony mair, Ksysia. Sok, business is business, you know that. The ATC is a business pillar.

Of course, the problem for Ukraine is that its nobodys business, except Russia.

I betrayed no-one

You so did.
king polkakamon - | 544
11 Mar 2010  #160
Yes,Ukraine belongs to Russia.Case closed.Poles had their chance.You screwed up.If having to choose,Ukrainians will prefer Russians.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
11 Mar 2010  #161
oh, but Russia is losing money and is slowing down... Do you think the History is over? Think again...
king polkakamon - | 544
11 Mar 2010  #162
oh, but Russia is losing money and is slowing down...

Basically Russia buys all the indebted countries.Unfortunately we were not a good deal for them.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #164
I can only chip in with snippets, no coherent arguments. We don't really learn about Eastern European relations (non-geographically I mean) so my knowledge is piecemeal. Learning Ukrainian would seem to have been logical in those times. It wouldn't have been too hard as there are many similarities, e.g w białym śniegu i w bielym śniegu (Nathan, please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks).

It's a crying shame that the 2 nations have been at each other's throats throughout history as I have respect for both countries. Still, who is Poland's Shevchenko? ;) ;)
Sasha 2 | 1,083
11 Mar 2010  #165
w białym śniegu i w bielym śniegu

It's a crying shame that the 2 nations have been at each other's throats throughout history

Why not add us (Russians) too in the list? :) it was "in white snow". Did I pass the exam? :))
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
11 Mar 2010  #166
What throughout history???

When we came out of the forest, largely due to the incoming border with the German little countries, and later the Teutonic Country, Ukraine... was forest.

Something happened, not sure what, because we build wooden villages and they went to rot. But it looks as though our grody had been burned down and new ones build right next to them by an organized force, counld be the famed Sarmatians.

We were at the stage of petty kingships for a little shorter than they, because King Mieszko didn't want to surrender his moat and bailey to a German Duke, and accepted the cross from Czechs (sent the harem away and took an old Czechian wife, Dubrava).

What proceeded next was alliances, skirmishes, during which our petty kings and dukes married Ukrainian petty kings and dukes (kniaź, książę, wojewoda). Most of the today's Ukraine that was Poland, was dragged into Poland simply by marriages with their rulers.

What is the fault in that? Do other families not do it?

I can even say, that for as long as Piasts took Ruthenian wifes, we were quite aligned with European history. When the Jogaiła family started bringing in Germans wives, mostly Habsburg but even one Hohenzollern, life became tricky. There was growth and deterioration at the same time, because as was noted by someone, Piasts were concentrating on bringing the country together, while Jagiellons were still in battle mode.

Poor Ukrainians, shouldn't have sex with Poles.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
11 Mar 2010  #167
białym śniegu i w bielym śniegu

"у білому снігу"
You can't demand ignorance to learn, Seanus ;)

Its not about what you care for or not, allies are key to long term survival

Nation's survival never lies in the hands of allies, it lies within the nation. Only its will determines its future, not allies or enemies.

Poor Ukrainians, shouldn't have sex with Poles

No, the sex was great, but you eventually gave preference to Ukrainian sticks instead of d*cks and it spoiled the relationship. Too much expansion occurred on the interaction line and you became dissatisfied ;) I can imagine when three empires came over, it released a bit of your passionate naughtiness - their tools covered what one couldn't ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #168
Can't demand ignorance, what what? Cyrillic is hard, lad. Was I wrong?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
11 Mar 2010  #169
Nation's survival never lies in the hands of allies, it lies within the nation. Only its will determines its future, not allies or enemies

Dude you have no economy, no army and half of your nation is not sure whether its Russian or Ukrainian, if anyone as much as farts your way your country will fall over and die, the better part of wisdom is to recognize your weakness and seek to remedy it, as far as it goes your economy is still shrinking.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
11 Mar 2010  #170
Can't demand ignorance, what what? Cyrillic is hard, lad. Was I wrong?

Well, you didn't pronounce it quite right. You would have to say "u beelomu sneehu" the words I wrote. But you were pretty close, Seanus. Congratulation. I wouldn't mind learning to say the same in Scottish :) Thanks.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #171
In fite sna :) :)

Anyway, what is the point of the thread? So they learned Ukrainian, and?
Nathan 18 | 1,363
11 Mar 2010  #172
In fite sna :) :)

Thanks, Seanus.

Anyway, what is the point of the thread? So they learned Ukrainian, and?

The thread is some joke produced by Polish intellectual Ksysia. Nobody learnt anything. For more info read my post # 92.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Mar 2010  #173
You're welcome! Very informative :)
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
12 Mar 2010  #174
No, the sex was great, but you eventually gave preference to Ukrainian sticks instead of d*cks and it spoiled the relationship.

The thread is some joke produced by Polish intellectual Ksysia. Nobody learnt anything.

I beg to differ. Thanks to your kind appreciation of the sex - I drove my point accross.

You see, in Anglophone conversation, and most of the forumers are such, there are some cliches that they use. Slave/Master, Empire, being better and the like. They really spoil the conversations with Poles as much as their attitude to women in the attic, prime heir et c. So it's easy for them to assume that

A. Poles are conquerors of Ukraine and rape and whip everyone like all good conquerors.
B. Poles must have killed Jews too, so Germans are excused from attacking Poland

So, thanks to you, they now can see my argument, that we were in fact expanding, yes, but not like Conquistadors, or English in China, or anything gruesome like that. Thank you, Nathan.
king polkagamon
12 Mar 2010  #175
Like Macchiaveli has written there are three ways to rule a foreign country:
1.By law(the roman way)
2.By destroying it(the mongol way)
3.By settlers(the Russian way)

As we can see in mediteranean countries which were under the roman Empire and in anglosaxon world the usual is the rule by law.In eastern Europe it is settlers and in Balkans destruction.
OP Ksysia 25 | 430
12 Mar 2010  #176
Law in Anglosaxon, eh? You mean the Wild West? or the I GAVE YOU 20 POUNDS???
king polkagamon
12 Mar 2010  #177
It was half ironical.As everyone knows Anglosaxons bring settlers.(USA,South Africa,Australia,even in Falklands they brought settlers.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
12 Mar 2010  #178
expanding

just don't blow up please because then I will have to clean the computer screen
king polkagamon
12 Mar 2010  #179
Poor Hitler tried to imitate Anglosaxons but he chose Russia to bring Volksdeutsche.The result was that Koeigsberg,Stettin,Breslau and lots more cities were degermanized by revenge action of the Russians who brought there nice Slavs.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
12 Mar 2010  #180
Learning Ukrainian would seem to have been logical in those times. It wouldn't have been too hard as there are many similarities, e.g w białym śniegu i w bielym śniegu (Nathan, please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks).

The question is how much a local Polish accent/dialect at that time would have been removed from a Ukrainian one. Obviously, standard versions of the languages (plus the writing system) would have been very different, but what about 'on the ground'.

Any one got any ideas?


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