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Polish-Turkish alliance. Is it mistake, joke or real love?


Crow 141 | 7,546
20 Jul 2010  #1
just curious
southern 75 | 7,102
20 Jul 2010  #2
They just do it to p1ss off the Russians.
Zed - | 195
20 Jul 2010  #3
why not? maybe us and Turks would like to have a common border once again? :-)
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,541
20 Jul 2010  #4
They just do it to p1ss off the Russians.

Exactly! The Greek got it for once ;)
Also it pisses of anyone in Europe
A walcie się ku*** ^^
king polkakamon - | 544
20 Jul 2010  #5
If you notice expansion of Russia in history coincides with shrinkage of ottoman Empire.Russians seem to think in the right direction.
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
20 Jul 2010  #6
They just do it to p1ss off the Russians.

yes probably. Turks would be victims of Russian frustrations

If you notice expansion of Russia in history coincides with shrinkage of ottoman Empire.

Turkey was/is no.1 player of France, Britain and Germany in conquest on Slavs in general and particularly Russia

Russians seem to think in the right direction.

if we exclude some of their miscalculations inside of Slavic world from observation, yes. That`s why so called west hate them
king polkakamon - | 544
20 Jul 2010  #7
I think it is a pleasure to read about all these successfull russian-turkish wars in the 19th century.Everytime the result was just amazing.
George8600 10 | 637
20 Jul 2010  #8
why not? maybe us and Turks would like to have a common border once again? :-)

What common border? They were trying to invade Poland and Austria....

Besides, no one's pissing off the Russians. Gazprom is buying most of Turkey's gas reserves as they are in practically all of the Balkans so they can have puppet dominance off of russian-gas dependent countries like Poland...

I think Crow needs to stop dreaming. All this Serbia, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria crap is tiring. Poland doesn't care about the Balkans...they barely care about their neighbors...what connection do they have with the far South? Maybe if they were an economic dominator like Russia but no, they are more or less independent other than maybe trade with main EU partners like Germany and France.
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
21 Jul 2010  #9
I think Crow needs to stop dreaming. All this Serbia, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria crap is tiring. Poland doesn't care about the Balkans...

don`t blame me. Its official Poland who positioned Poland in alliance with Turkey. As we can see Turkey profit from that alliance and tries to expand her influence on Balkan.

Poland should coordinate with Serbia and repel Turkish expansionism. It is abominable that Poland serve to Turkish schemes

why not? maybe us and Turks would like to have a common border once again? :-)

this is joke to you? you are idiot then

Why would Poles enjoy to work against Serbs? On the long run, its Poland vs. Poland situation
enkidu 7 | 623
21 Jul 2010  #10
Well... Polish and Turkish nations have got a rather nasty war for more-or-less 500 years.
We had learned some mutual respect in the process.
As a Polish guy I may say that I don't like the Turkish.
But I am respect them anyway.
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
21 Jul 2010  #11
as a Serbian i can say that i have some respect for example for Germans (deep inside of me i even think of them as deluded germanized former Serbs/Slavs) but i can`t imagine that Serbia join in (or stay in) alliance with Germany in case that Germany took part in dissolution of Poland or attack Poland

Polish-Turkish alliance is just wrong in time when Turkey took part in dissolution of Yugoslavia and attack on Serbia

This situation telling me that Poles don`t rule Poland. If Poles rule Poland this would be simple impossible
Bzibzioh
21 Jul 2010  #12
Polish-Turkish alliance is just wrong in time when Turkey took part in dissolution of Yugoslavia and attack on Serbia

Yes, Crow, that's the only reason against Polish-Turkish alliance.

*and now I know I'm officially insane: I'm taking to Crow, people!!!*
mephias 11 | 305
21 Jul 2010  #13
Poland doesn't care about the Balkans...

I agree with this.

ts official Poland who positioned Poland in alliance with Turkey.

Alliance may be a too strong word, but we have good relations. Maybe you are not aware but Turkey also has good relations with official Serbia.

Poland should coordinate with Serbia

Why not

deep inside of me i even think of them as deluded germanized former Serbs/Slavs)

Which shows you are also stupid deep inside you.

Polish-Turkish alliance is just wrong in time when Turkey took part in dissolution of Yugoslavia and attack on Serbia

Lies again, be a man for once and admit that your greedy politicians and soldiers wanted to play a game to have more power but they lost it.

This situation telling me that Poles don`t rule Poland. If Poles rule Poland this would be simple impossible

Poles rule Poland but they are living in a real world not in your dreams.
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
21 Jul 2010  #14
I agree with this.

me, too

Alliance may be a too strong word, but we have good relations.

i am also on the stance that NATO isn`t serious alliance

Maybe you are not aware but Turkey also has good relations with official Serbia.

Serbian export of snipers to Turkey is famous

Why not

that`s what i sad

Which shows you are also stupid deep inside you.

thank you

Lies again, be a man for once and admit that your greedy politicians and soldiers wanted to play a game to have more power but they lost it.

Serbian politicians aren`t worse or batter then any other but, during dissolution (and because of dissolution) of former Yugoslavia Serbs wanted only to survive as biological, ethnic, military and political factor.

and BDW, Serbs didn`t lost. We survived, in any sense. We consolidate, on all fields

Poles rule Poland but they are living in a real world not in your dreams.

interesting thinking for one Turk
Torq 26 | 2,368
21 Jul 2010  #15
Polish-Turkish alliance

Polish-Turkish alliance? Hey - why not? I'm all for it. They have a young society, on their
way to modernization and with high economic potential. Also, despite history of wars with
Poland (but they were an honourable enemy), there were a lot of mutual sympathy and
understanding throughout history - they never recongnized partitions, accepted Polish
refugees after falls of our national uprisings and currently we have very good relations.

Turkey is on a good way to be regional superpower and for Poland the alliance with them
can only bring benefits (especially when, one day, they enter EU, and will be able to form
official political alliance).

Visehrad Group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hunagry) + Turkey would be a power
to be reckoned with in the EU.

Long live Polish-Turkish friendship and co-operation!

PT
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,995
21 Jul 2010  #16
Visehrad Group (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hunagry) + Turkey would be a power
to be reckoned with in the EU.

Once they pay for it, sure.....
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
21 Jul 2010  #17
with services?

What is Turkish role? Control of Balkan, together with Germany?

but then, why is Poland excluded from control of Balkan? EU does not trust to Poland?

Poles as Poles (not in alliance with Turks and Germans) would be welcome on Balkan and most welcome by Serbs. Is that the problem?
George8600 10 | 637
25 Jul 2010  #18
lol I love all of Torq's fictitious groups of new European empires. He's now decided to add Turkey for the heck of it ...

Anyway, Poland can barely build alliances with it's neighbors, what deal does it have with Turkey? Turkey is one the way to modernizing it's economy which is why it's doing it's best right now to build alliances with it's neighboring countries and expand trade with them. Just like Poland should/is trying to do with Germany. As far as history goes, they were an enemy the Ottoman empire, and yes they did recognize partitions except for some due to problems with mainland Europe. But in some of those treaties where Poland's partitions were mentioned, the Ottoman empire did sign. The reason why they didn't recognize much in Europe is because they were indifferent to most of it and so hostile to them that they simply saw Europe as one especially with the Christianity in Europe at the time.

As for the Adam Mickiewicz museum, that's there, it's because he died there, the only reason he went to Turkey was to organize exiled Polish forces to be used in the war against Russia. He also met his good friend Armand Levy who was to ass Israeli Hussars to the factions...

What is Turkish role? Control of Balkan, together with Germany?

Germany and Turkey won't be getting along, trust me. Unless they somehow overpopulate the actual Germans there....lol.

As for controlling the Balkan, you should know that modern Turkey is much of a liberal democracy than it is anything else. Which is why it begs to differ from Arabs in the east. Turkey this year alone has signed peace-ties with Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Albania...
king polkakamon - | 544
25 Jul 2010  #19
George have you been in Turkey?Spend there some time and let's see if your opinions remain the same.Our forefathers had a reason to fight.Definitely.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860
27 Jul 2010  #20
you should know that modern Turkey is much of a liberal democracy than it is anything else.

Turkish Prime Minister Erodogan - "Democracy is like a streetcar. When you come to your stop, you get off".
bosman - | 6
2 Aug 2010  #21
<offtopic>
Cześć!
This is my first post on the forum, although I'm a long time reader.
Yeah, my nickname is dedicated to the best beer in the world: BOSMAN :)
</offtopic>

The thing between Poland and Turkey is something way more bigger than an alliance.

Let's get a quick review.

<if-you-do-not-like-to-read-long-posts-you-can-skip-this-part>
************************
In 1414, Hungarian king asked military support from Polish King Jagiello against Turks. By that time Hungary was holding a strategic importance for both Polish Kingdom and Ottoman Empire. But instead of giving military support. King Jagiello sent two ambassadors to Turkey.

And this was the first contact between two nations. Unlike what's known, we had our first contact via diplomatic relation, not war. For the first 30 years, Turks and Poles try to solve their issues by sending ambassadors to each other.

1444, we had our first war. The young King of Poland and King of Hungary, Władysław Warneńczyk III had started an unofficial crusade (it was not fully supported in Lechia) against Turks, which later be named as Crusade of Varna. With Warneńczyk on the lead some Polish Knights join the Hungarian army, but got defeated by Turks.

In 1456 the diplomatic relations started again, and relations improved with some trade agreements. In 1497-1501, during the time of Jan I Olbracht there were some battles again, but no winning side.

In 1501 Turks and Poles signed a peace treaty. This treatment lasted more than 100 years. This is what I'm like about Poles, they honor their words. If they say peace, it's peace. you can safely turn your back :)

In these peaceful times relations gets more and more stronger. Turks started to teach Polish to their diplomats while Poles teaching Turkish.

During the time of Zygmunt I Stary and Suleiman the Magnificent the bonds got very very stronger and they signed an eternal peace treatment. Until one of them die, the two nations will remain in peace. This is important because it's the first and only eternal peace treatment signed by an Ottoman Sultan.

After the dead of Zygmunt, Roxelana (the beloved wife of Suleiman) sent a letter to his son Zygmunt II August. In her letter she was saying that "Your father and Suleiman were just like brothers. So now he's going to treat you just like his son. etc." (you can find the full text, search on google)

In 1620, Tatars and Cossacks living in Poland started to attack Turkish border towns. They even burn a few cities near Anatolia. These events were destroying 100 year hold peace. There were some small battles near border but nothing big.

In 1683, Battle of Vien, famous story. Jan III Sobieski helped the Holy League and won a successfull victory over Turks. (I personally adore Sobieski.. such a great warrior, such a great king!)

In 1686 Poland signed a peace treaty with Russia (Pokój wieczysty) and this treaty ends the Turkish-Polish peace times. (I also think this treaty was bad for Poles.. starting point of the road of collapsing :()

In 1699 Poland and Turkey had their last battle! Result was a decisive Polish victory, Poland gained the control of Ukraine.
At the end of this "Great Turkish War", Treaty of Karlowitz signed. And that's it. No more wars between two nations.

Diplomatic relations just started again in 1720! The war times forgotten really fast, but unfortunately it was not good times for Polish Kingdom. In 1790 the last Polish King, Stanisław II August Poniatowski asked Ottomans for a military alliance against Russians. Before Ottomans prepare an army for Russian campaign, it was too late for Polish. In 1792 Russians invade Poland and in 1795 Poland divided in three pars between Prussia, Russia and Austria.

************************
</if-you-do-not-like-to-read-long-posts-you-can-skip-this-part>

Turkey was the only country in the world who never acknowledged the partitions of Poland!

For 123 years, Turkey always waited for Polish Ambassador. It's not a legend :)

In every event organized by Ottomans, there was always one empty seat reserved, with one empty plate and one empty glass. If somebody asks for it, they reply: "It's for Polish Ambassador!"

Or during meetings with foreign diplomats, ambassadors, Sultan always asks for the Polish ambassador to his grand vizier and he replies like this "The Ambassador from Poland is on his way to here, but he faced with some problems on the road so he's going to be a little bit late"

Turks opened their borders to Polish immigrants, statesmen, soldiers who are running away from Russians. And probably you know the story of the Polish village in Istanbul.

Polonezköy:
polonezkoy.com/history.html

After failed uprisings in 1831, 1848 and 1863 most of the Polish leaders came to Turkey.

But the bad thing is, Ottoman Empire was losing power too.. They were losing lands, losing battles against Russia. Before and after every battle Russians always ask for "give us the Polish refugees, nobles, leaders! or you will face consequences!"

At the end of the 19th century Ottomans nearly lost all of their lands in Balkans. Even in some battle Russian make their ways through Istanbul, and once again they demand for Polish refugees! Abdülmecit I replied them like this: "I can give you my crown, I can give you my head, but I'm not giving any people that refuge in my land!"

During that years there are many Polish served in Ottoman army.
In 1869, Konstantyn Borzecki, a Polish general in Turkish army wrote a book titled "Ancient and Modern Turks". This book later praised by our forefather Atatürk. He said that Borzecki deserves a golden statue! Atatürk later used Borzecki's ideas and suggestions in his revolutions for the Turkish Republic.

After Turkish War of Independence (1919-1922) a new Turkish state has born. The modern day Turkey, "Republic of Turkey". And guess what? Poland is the first European country that officially recognizes the new Turkish state :)

During the WWII, Turkey also played an important role for Polish brothers. Bank Polska transferred most of the Polish gold through Turkey. Again like in history, Turkey accepted Polish refugees, diplomats. Polish pilots, diplomats use Turkey to travel to UK and France. Polish postal mail, messages go through Turkey.

Third Reich was threatening us, there was a war going on near our borders, Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria. But we do not turn our backs to Polish brothers. :)

Another interesting story;
Nazi Ambassador in Turkey, Von Papen made an official request to Turkey that "Due to Anschluss Agreement between Czechoslovakia and Germany, the Czechoslovakia Embassy building must be belong to Germany. And simply we want that building" The Turkish goverment gave the building to Nazi's. And Van Papen, started to work in there. Polish Embassy is just 100 meters from his window!

After invasion of Poland, they made the same request for Polish Embassy. İsmet İnönü, President of Turkey declined the offer and said:
"We have a very strong friendship with Poland. In history, we waited nearly 150 years for the Polish Ambassador! Now for a very short of time (he states that Poland will be independent again in a few years!) we cannot turn our backs to Polish brothers. So the Republic of Turkey declines your request!"

So Von Papen always watched beautiful Polish flag from his window!

This is a very long post for a first post.. I know I missed a lot good things, but these are all I can remember now :)

Although there 1500kms between our borders, Poland is a true friend for Turkey, and she always be! Turkey has no other friendship like this, even with Turkic or Muslim states.

Poland is special ;)
George8600 10 | 637
2 Aug 2010  #22
Cześć!
This is my first post on the forum, although I'm a long time reader.
Yeah, my nickname is dedicated to the best beer in the world: BOSMAN :)

Wow you sure do know your history. May I ask if you are a student of history and what your favorite area is in the subject?

Yes, I have had much experience with Turks. You see I am half Greek and half Polish, so as you can imagine there is a lot of Turkish diasporia in Greece and having met many of the people along with relation to the culture. I believe the Ottoman Empire did great things for both Poland and Greece. It paid full respect to the Poles, which helping preserve Greek culture, religion, and intellectual works from the expansionist West seeking to influence and change all that.
southern 75 | 7,102
2 Aug 2010  #23
I believe the Ottoman Empire did great things for both Poland and Greece.

Slurp,slurp.Are you a real Greek?Our forefathers spilled tons of their blood to get us free from the Turks.We did over 100 revolutions against their rule.
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
2 Aug 2010  #24
Polish-Turkish alliance

Polish-Turkish alliance is a joke. Turkey is full of Muslims it would be better for Poland to have an alliance with a traditional friend like Hungary.
convex 20 | 3,979
2 Aug 2010  #25
a traditional friend like Hungary

Didn't they help hack up Poland?
bosman - | 6
2 Aug 2010  #26
Wow you sure do know your history. May I ask if you are a student of history and what your favorite area is in the subject?

Let's say, history is my passion :)

You see I am half Greek and half Polish

My grandparents born and raised in Greece. I am also very familiar with Greek culture and Greek history.

Slurp,slurp.Are you a real Greek?Our forefathers spilled tons of their blood to get us free from the Turks.

Turks hadn't done anything to you. They ruled Balkans nearly 500 years but unlike other empires they let the people keep their language, keep their religion. There was peace, only peace in these lands. Just forget what you read in your propagandist history books, and learn real history. This is the Polish-Turkish topic, If you open another topic, or contact me in private we can discuss that issue.

Polish-Turkish alliance is a joke.

So do you!

Turkey is full of Muslims

So what? You know, I hate people with sick minds.. Religion is something between you and god. And Turkey is the most tolerant country in the whole world about religion. Although 99% of population is Muslim, you can find more than 30 churches and 10 synagogues in my city, Izmir. Muslims believe in Jesus as their prophet, Virgin Mary is holy for us too. etc. etc..

OK, may be you have questions about Islam, Muslims, the way things in Turkey, culture etc. Again, open another topic, I'd be happy to contribute.

Please stick to original topic, don't pollute the topic!
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
2 Aug 2010  #27
contact me in private we can discuss that issue.

work it out like men let your fists do the talking ;)

Although 99% of population is Muslim,

99% too many.
southern 75 | 7,102
2 Aug 2010  #28
Izmir

Smyrni.
Turks only did this to p1ss off the Russians.And Poles did the same.There was no true alliance.When they met they clashed.
A J 4 | 1,089
2 Aug 2010  #29
Polish-Turkish alliance. Is it mistake, joke or real love?

Mistake.
OP Crow 141 | 7,546
2 Aug 2010  #30
Mistake

i know. i just asked but, we Serbians know that. But, between us, never mind. Its just this historical momentum. Only God knows how much was/is Poland constantly historically blackmailed and forced to chose among negative choices. Things would be changed


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