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The story about German- Polish reconciliation


Lyzko 25 | 7,145
31 Jul 2015 #181
Franky, JollyR. can be a bit of a troll sometimes, but he's basically harmless, I can assure you:-)

Admittedly, many Germans don't appreciate what your president has been saying of late. On another forum, they call him "Gauck-Gauckler", perhaps because some think he's trying to "fool" the German electorate into believing certain things of which they don't wish to be convinced, hence the clever pun on his name!

I haven't read much unfortunately about how he feels about Ms. Kopacz, but I'd imagine it's not too different from Chancellor Merkel's.
FrankyBkk
31 Jul 2015 #182
Lyzko;
I was feeling the same about JollyR, he is for sure harmless. This time he was just a little to harsh. Sometimes are hot people like him are much needed to address problems.

My best friendships started usual with insults and difficulties, but at the end they was the best ones, hehe.
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
31 Jul 2015 #183
Noone is as weak as he who pretends to be strong:-) Niemand ist so schwach wie der Halbstarke:-)
lol
TheOther 6 | 3,821
31 Jul 2015 #184
but i live since more then 30 years in Bangkok

Have you been home recently? You have some very strong opinions about east Germany and the German government.

the German government which promised a lot and did not keep any promise

Such as?
FrankyBkk
1 Aug 2015 #185
Kohl versprach "Blühende Landschaften" . . . Whole East Germany collapsed!

Kohl versprach "Keine Steuererhöhungen" . . . Germany have since then the highest tax in the world.

This are the two biggest lies, but the list is endless.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Aug 2015 #186
two biggest lies

Ever heard of a politician who doesn't lie? All is fair in politics where, pious platitudes notwithstanding, the main goal is to get to the trough and stay there as long as possible.
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
1 Aug 2015 #187
Right on, Polonius!

@Frank,

A little surprised at your yawning naivete, sir:-)
gregy741 4 | 1,204
1 Aug 2015 #188
just burn all history books ...am sick of this lamenting
TheOther 6 | 3,821
1 Aug 2015 #189
Whole East Germany collapsed!

Nonsense. Everybody expected the GDR to be an industrialized country with a highly developed infrastructure, but instead it turned out to be a polluted, ex-communist hellhole with industries that were so run down that nobody could rescue them. It took billions upon billions of DM and EUR to clean up the mess that the SED comrades had left behind, and in the meantime the people of East Germany lost patience and simply moved to the west where a (at that time) better life with much higher wages was waiting. Pretty much the same thing that happened in Poland.

Kohl was an idiot, but you have to give him one thing: he was a very clever politician who made the reunification possible.
bullfrog 6 | 603
1 Aug 2015 #190
Everybody expected the GDR to be an industrialized country with a highly developed infrastructure

No one expected that, except some loony lefties!

This are the two biggest lies, but the list is endless.

Promises made by politicians only engage those who believe in such promises

Kohl was an idiot,

He certainly wasn't

he was a very clever politician who made the reunification possible

He did not make the reunification possible, he jumped (rightly so) on the occasion. If I had to single one or 2 persons who made the reunification possible, I would say Gorbatchov (reunification would not have happened had the SU not been in the process of collapsing) and John Paul II (role in the downfall of communism)
TheOther 6 | 3,821
2 Aug 2015 #191
No one expected that, except some loony lefties!

Not true. That's how the reunification (and later the so-called "Solidaritätszuschlag") was sold to the people of West Germany, and don't forget that the GDR was one of the most developed countries of the Warsaw Pact. Industrial pollution was the norm, but nobody expected to find whole districts that were completely ruined by the chemical industry for example. The commies were very good at hiding their skeletons in the closet.

He certainly wasn't

Come on, why do you think he had the nickname "Birne"? In German, that wasn't only a reference to his physical stature, but also a mockery of "his provincial background and simple language" (Wikipedia).

He did not make the reunification possible,

What I meant is something else. He was clever enough to use diplomacy and personal bonds in his favor and to the advantage of Germany. Kohl was a good friend of Gorbatchov at that time, which made things a lot easier.
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
2 Aug 2015 #192
Look, let's face facts, you people! Eastern Germany imploded, pure and simple. It was practically fated to self-destruct, sooner or later, it simply came a little sooner than previously expected.

Round about summer of '88, I joked with an at that time "West German" acquaintance from the Dortmund area who'd been living for almost fifteen years in Jamaica, Queens, that the GDR was a ticking time bomb, due to explode any time within the next year or so. Well, Fall '89. "EAST GERMANY OPENS UP BORDERS TO THE WEST!" screamed across the banner headlines of the NYT, almost a year to the day I'd predicted it would. While we'd made no bet, the human spirit could only survive so long before it must be

free.

Reagan was dead wrong about a lotta stuff; about Communism? He was right on the money!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,908
2 Aug 2015 #193
Look, let's face facts, you people! Eastern Germany imploded, pure and simple. It was practically fated to self-destruct, sooner or later, it simply came a little sooner than previously expected.

No, it wasn't. It imploded because they were so deep in economic trouble that there was no real option apart from economic unification. If East Germany had been what people believed it to be, then they would've had a firm basis to convert to capitalism and eventually unify with West Germany on equal terms as opposed to being merely annexed. But the economic situation was so bad that they were forced to hold elections in March 1990 as opposed to May, and even then, they were struggling to hold the country together until managing to organise elections in March.
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
2 Aug 2015 #194
All of that's true as well, Delphi! I nonetheless hold firm to my original opinion. As far as Kohl's competence, I frankly think a lot was merely political rhetoric from the left-wing, liberal German press, notably DER SPIEGEL, which attacked Kohl in the early years of his administration at every bend and turn:-)


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