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WW2 - The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2


legend 3 | 664
14 Jun 2011 #31
" Bwah bwah Its the Zionists,bwah bwah eh,thats all aboot here eh Bwah mwah anyone eh who doesnt agree with me eh must be a jew eh bwah mwah..."
Pal, Im not jewish,I am european unlike you,so yes,I have something slightly more to say about europa than a moose molesting crybaby white power inbred retrograde learning disabled colonial.....

Speak english maybe?
I dont believe in any conspiracy theories as one of my earlier posts indicated. The fact that zionists in Israel are killing innocents is common sense.

You being a European means nothing to me.

I pray that your brain is better than your english :)
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #32
Well, I do. It looks like a sh*thole....Hold on to your dirty shack

37th US president Richard Nixon heading the country with 1969 on 1974 considered that "Jews are disgusting creations".

Shorthand reports of conversations of the president with his advisers have got to the Internet and open a picture of Nixon's sharply negative attitude to Israel, Zionism and to the Soviet Jewry.

"All people have distinctive features. And so Jews behave aggressively and disgustingly", - the president considered.

In 1973 the group of the Soviet Jews in the message secretly transferred to the west, asked Nixon and its administration to promote him in attempt to overcome the Iron Curtain and to leave to Israel and the USA. The president has declared that the United States aren't interested in emigration of Jews from Soviet Union, informs mignews.com.

"If Jews of the USSR will send in gas chambers and then it doesn't become business of the USA", - Nixon concluded

You can continue to love your western friends..
guesswho 4 | 1,289
15 Jun 2011 #33
The other side. What USSR, also that the Polish government has made not to admit WW2

what does it mean? Can you rephrase it please.
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #34
How could Poland attack Russia? Did you have common proper borders at that time?

Approach of the Polish armies in Belarus

In the end of February the Polish armies forced Neman and have begun approach in Belarus (since February, 3rd were in federation with RSFSR(USSR))

For approach preparation to the east the Polish armies in Belarus, the received reinforcements, have been divided into three parts: Polssk group general Anthon Listovsky, the Volynsk group - general Edward Rydz-Smigly ordered, on a line of Shchitno-Skidel there was a Litovsko-Belorussian division of general Vaclav Ivashkevicha-Rudoshansky. To the south from them there were divisions of generals of Juliusha Rummelja and Tadeusha Rozvadovsky.

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:PL-RU_war_1919_phase_II.svg

Well, I do. It looks like a sh*thole. Besides Moscow and St. Petersburg, there is nothing worth visiting or living in

Jews run again to Russia from Germany

Now there is an active process return Jews from Germany to Russia, whence they have left in 1990th years, has informed on Wednesday in Moscow at a meeting with the president of Germany Christian Woolf.

"The tendency of returning of many left before Jews from Germany back to Russia is now observed. And this one more certificate of how religious life in the country" dynamically develops, - the main rabbi of the Russian Federation has declared Berl Lazar.

Lazar has noticed that today in Russia there are many positive changes in religion area, the government top-level keeps development of religious communities, promotes interreligious dialogue ".

According to Lazar, the state management substantially promotes dialogue between representatives of various religions. Confirming to this fact the rabbi has cited as an example the course of bases of religious cultures entered now at schools and secular ethics, informs interfax.ru.

Jews - the people of a Semitic origin which are going back to the population of ancient Israeli and Judaic kingdoms, living in many countries of the world and the recreated (1948) Jewish state Israel. Number from 12 to 14 million people, from them about 40 % in Israel and 35 % in the USA.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,424
15 Jun 2011 #35
Well....they messed up the Jewish community in Germany pretty bad.

Nobody spoke German, the German Jews tried to adapt in making the services bi-lingual. Most of them had no idea of Jewish cultural or even religious life at all.

ejpress.org/article/in_depth/1969

They claimed to be Jewish the moment they found a Jew in their family tree far back, just to be able to leave Russia. Where they Jews? Doubtful.

The same happened with the mass emigration of Russian pseudo-Jews to Israel. It got so bad that Israel now can show off their own kind of Neo-Nazis....Russian immigrants who actually hate everything Jewish!

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6985808.stm

It's better those Russians go back home now...

On the other hand more and more Jews from Israel get their second German citizenship ID...just in case...
telegraph.co.uk/comment/3558319/Israels-anxiety-as-Jews-prefer-Germany.html
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Jun 2011 #36
If have something to add from your side you are most welcome...

Yeah! Poland could had joined Hitler (his proposition) and attack Soviet. She did not do that. Instead Soviets were closely cooperating with Hitler, selling him ores, giving him access to their military training camps. In 1939 they attacked Poland in concert with Germany.

Now go and watch, a Cookie monster is after you, with slanted eyes !
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #37
Well, I do. It looks like a sh*thole

Sights of Russia under the aegis of UNESCO
The Kremlin. Moscow. Russia
Red Square. Moscow. Russia.
Baikal. Russia.
Kizhsky country churchyard. Russia.
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia.
Fountains. Petrodvorets. St.-Petersburg.
The Solovetsky Islands. Russia.
Virgin forests of Kareliya. Russia.
To Trinity - Sergieva of Laurels in Sergiev Posad.
Tent church of Rise. Kolomna. Russia.
Nikolsky church. Suzdal. Russia.
Uspensky Cathedral. Vladimir. Russia.
Spassky monastery. Yaroslavl. Russia.
Volcanoes of Kamchatka. Russia.
Farapontov a monastery (Christmas)

New maiden Smolensk Ikony Prechistoj Bogoroditsy a female monastery.
Novgorod. Yurjev's a monastery. Russia.
Kazan kremlin.
Troitsk Tower
Tower of Sjujumbeki, palace church,
Palace of the governor. Russia.
Fortress. Derbent. Dagestan. Russia.

«The Golden Ring of Russia»
Vasily Blazhennogo's temple. Moscow
Suzdal. A Pokrovsk monastery. Russia
Kostroma. A Bogojavlensky monastery. Russia
Kostroma. Revival church on Debre
Bogolyubovo. The Cover temple on Nerli.
Bogolyubovo. A female monastery. Russia

Yaroslavl. A Spassky monastery
Uglich. The Kremlin. «A palace of tsarevitch Dimitrija»
Vladimir. An Uspensky Cathedral. Russia
Vladimir. A monument to Andrey Rublyov. Russia
Alexanders. The Kremlin. An Uspensky monastery
Pereslavl - Zalessky. The Goritsky monastery
Rostov Great. Спасо - the Jakovlevsky monastery
Sights of Russia
Mamayev Kurgan. Volgograd. Russia
Baikal. Russia.
Kizhsky country churchyard. Russia.
Monument 1000th Russia. Novgorod. Russia
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia.
The Sofia and Voskresensky Cathedral. Vologda. Russia
Ivolginsky дацан (a Buddhist temple). Buryatiya. Russia
The Kremlin. A museum «Tula samovars» Tula. Russia
The Kremlin. Ryazan. Russia
Krestovozdvizhensky church. The Ivanovo area. Russia
Monument to Athanasius Nikitin. Tver. Russia
Monument to Alexander Nevsky. Gorodec. Russia
Fountains. Petrodvorets. St.-Petersburg. UNESCO
The Solovetsky Islands. Russia.
The big Palace. Petrodvorets. Russia
Monument to Peter 1. Petrozavodsk. Russia
Valaam monastery. A chapel. Russia
Virgin forests of Kareliya. Russia.
To Trinity - Sergieva of Laurels in Sergiev Posad.
Tent church of Rise. Kolomna. Russia.
Nikolsky church. Suzdal. Russia.
Uspensky Cathedral. Vladimir. Russia.
To Trinity - Danilov a monastery.
Pereslavl - Zalessky. Russia.
Spassky monastery. Yaroslavl. Russia.
Volcanoes of Kamchatka. Russia.
Salekhard - a city on a polar circle. Russia
Ivolginsky дацан - a Buddhist temple. Buryatiya. Russia
Rise church. Velikiy Ustyug. Russia
Kyzyl - the center of Asia. Russia
Peter and Pavel's temple on the Prohorovsky field.
The Belgorod region. Russia
Pominalnaja chapel on the Prohorovsky field.
The Belgorod region. Russia
Monument on life Road. Ladoga lake. Russia
Astrakhan кремль. Russia
The house of Pavlova. Volgograd. Russia
Monument to civilians. Volgograd. Russia.
Monument to civilians. Volgograd. Russia

If you can't live here is doesn't mean that s*hit over here...

You just a BIG LOOSER ....))))))

Yeah! Poland could had joined Hitler (his proposition) and attack Soviet. She did not do that. Instead Soviets were closely cooperating with Hitler, selling him ores, giving him access to their military training camps. In 1939 they attacked Poland in concert with Germany.

1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

In December, 1938 in the report of 2nd (prospecting) department of a general staff of the Army Polish it was in plain terms specified:

«The partition of Russia underlies the Polish policy in the east... Therefore our possible position will be reduced to the following formula: who will take part in section. Poland shouldn't remain passive during this remarkable historical moment. The problem consists in that it is beforehand good to be prepared physically and spiritually... The Overall objective - easing and defeat of Russia» («Z dziejow stosunkow polsko-radzieckich. Studia i materialy», T.III. Warszawa, 1968, S. 262, 287).
1jola 14 | 1,879
15 Jun 2011 #38
Soviet Man, what does your cheat sheet tell you to say about Katyń?
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Jun 2011 #39
1933 - Refusal

Are you able to think or just quote the same old same .....
So Poles where crazy enough to refuse alliance with Soviets (worthless piece of paper ) and then to refuse alliance with Germany against Soviets and at the same time planning to attack Soviets solo. YEAH Poles are nuts !Watch out the big bad cookie monster is out to get you !
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #40
Soviet Man, what does your cheat sheet tell you to say about Katyń?

On April, 8th, 2010 became one of the most shameful days in contemporary history of Russia. Acting in Poland on the occasion of an anniversary of Katynsky tragedy, the prime minister of Russia Vladimir Putin named guilty of her heads of security service of that time and People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs, including Lavrentija Beriju, and also the political country leaders, accurately hinting at Joseph Stalin.

Here is another version of the others :

What is historical truth of that tragedy?

It is necessary to divide actually tragedy (that is execution by Germans of the Polish officers by summer-autumn of 1941) and the propaganda action organized by Joseph Goebbels in the spring of 1943. That it there was a propaganda action - any doubts be simple can't, enough look for dates: on April, 13th radio of Germany informs on Katynsky finds, and already definitive destruction of the Warsaw ghetto on April, 19th begins. Then so-called Volynsk slaughter - destruction by insurgents UPA(Ukrainian Anti-Soviet Army) from 60 to 200 thousand Poles in territory of the Western Ukraine begins also.

What it is necessary to make to cross out «the German version»?

It is necessary to open archives, first of all camp Vjazemlaga archive (in him was a little camp offices including near settlement Katyn in which, by the way, no Polish tombs are present - they are in a place with the name the Goat Mountains that near station Gnezdovo, nowadays Smolensk-commodity) in which till summer of 1941 contained Polish captured already as prisoners. At the moment in some documents from this office are already revealed, mainly - accounting reports and reports "upward" - and from these documents already unequivocally follows that: the first - camp near Smolensk were, the mode of the maintenance of convicts in them very essentially differed from all other ...

Actually, captured Polish officers in the winter of 1939-1940 contained in Kozelsk, Starobelske and Ostashkov in very concessionary terms - well fed, didn't force to work, every other day showed cinema. Once at them with a concert even local schoolboys acted. That is considered them more likely as «objects of re-education» and, most likely, would release at all, if not the Polish government in the exile, sitting in that time in the French city of Anzhere. This government after the USSR has officially transferred Vilensky area to Lithuania (it has occurred in the beginning of November, 1939) has declared the USSR war. And as by then representatives of People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs "have probed" moods Polish captured and have well understood that those still consider themselves on service of the Polish government also conclusions have been made unequivocal - to release anybody it is impossible... But also to feed captured for «it is simple so» - it is unprofitable. As a result the decision - to write out to captured Poles terms through Special Meeting was accepted.

That, by the way, execution excluded - execution powers at him have appeared only in November, 1941. Documents on preparation for consideration of "the Polish affairs» in Special Meeting has remained, by the way, much - and sentences within powers of this body - till 8 years of camps have remained even. Condemnation of captured Poles by Special Meeting is a real sin of the USSR; they were foreign citizens and prisoners of war. But, how Poles addressed with Soviet captured in 1920-1921, it, the right, a sin insignificant.

P.S. I don't know on 100 % that happens then, hard believe that Russian could so to make, but if and was - that is the BIG shame both for military men and for those who gave this order from above...

Are you able to think or just quote the same old same .....

I think that when Germany have attacked on Poland and it became clear that Germany will grasp her all. The USSR wanted to remove borders far away from the country because Russia wasn't ready to be at war with Germany, but understood that war will be all the same....

To a regret historically Russia and Poland had bad relations, I hope that they become better....

But while Poland puts at itself the American rockets - against whom?

By: "Alexander Prozorov"

"In the mankind past not so it is a lot of moments which it is possible to name confidently defining the further history of the Earth. In the twentieth century this moment easily is called to within a minute. In a trice, the future victory of a civilization over a satanic host, the feather stroke under the significant document which has rescued millions of lives, to the whole people which have provided freedom which have become by the first step in a victory of Soviet Union over fascist Germany was strategically provided. This document - «the Pact between the USSR and Germany about non-aggression» from August, 23rd, 1939. Or, as him quite often name: «the Pact of Molotov-Ribbentrop».

The person poorly familiar with history, can be surprised: paternal I so highly appreciate this contract, I consider as his greatest diplomatic victory of the USSR in the history? After all by thirty ninth already many European countries had time to conclude just the same contract with Hitler? Such countries as Poland or England similar contracts special success don't name. To understand, in what break consists, it is necessary to get accustomed more attentively to conditions that has developed to the West from Russia in the thirties the twentieth century.

First of all, democratic Germany which has chosen in the heads of ardent nationalist Adolf Hitler promptly gained in strength. Hitler openly recognized that an ultimate goal of his aggression is acquisition of "vital space» in the east, physical destruction of Russia and Russian people. Up the time of pact signing Germany annexed Sudetes, has included Austria, Czechia and Moravia in Reich structure, actively was at war in Spain. Germany developed, rattled the sabre and collected round itself allies."

In 1939 they attacked Poland in concert with Germany.

On the one hand, England and France demanded the military help from the USSR aggression for Poland mind. The USSR, as it is known, was ready to meet it under condition of reception of the corresponding help for itself from England and France. On the other hand, the same England and France there and then let out Poland which resolutely refused the military help from the USSR on a scene. Try to agree under these conditions about mutual aid when the help from the USSR appears in advance unnecessary and imposed.

Further. On the one hand, England and France guaranteed to Soviet Union the military help aggression in exchange for the corresponding help mind from the USSR. On the other hand, they arranged the help with such reservations about indirect aggression which could transform this help into fiction and allowed to them to shirk formally-legislative ground rendering assistance and to put the USSR in a condition of isolation in the face of an aggressor. Try to distinguish similar «the mutual aid pact» from the pact more or less disguised cheating.

Further. On the one hand, England and France underlined importance and gravity of negotiations about the mutual aid pact, demanding from the USSR the most serious relation to this business and the fastest permission of the questions connected with the pact. On the other hand, they showed an extreme sluggishness and absolutely frivolous relation to negotiations, charging this business to the minor persons who have been not invested by sufficient powers. It is enough to tell that military missions of England and France have arrived to Moscow without certain powers and without the right of signing of any military convention. It is more than that, military mission of England has arrived to Moscow in general without any mandate, and only on request of our military mission she, already before the break of negotiations, has presented the written powers. But also it were powers only the most uncertain character, that is not sound powers. These are internal contradictions of a position of England and France in negotiations about the USSR which has led to failure of negotiations.

Where a root of these contradictions in a position of England and France?
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Jun 2011 #41
I think that when Germany have attacked on Poland and it became clear that Germany will grasp her all. The USSR wanted to remove borders far away from the country because Russia wasn't ready to be at war with Germany, but understood that war will be all the same....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact



Deeds means more than words !
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #42
Ironside Video

Attention!
Video isn't recommended to viewing by the government of Poland to citizens of the country.

Seventy years ago, on August 23, 1939, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Covetsko-German nonaggression pact from the August, 23rd, 1939, more known as «the Pact of Molotova Ribbentropa» (on surnames of the Ministers for Foreign Affairs who have signed him), till now causes serious disputes among historians and politicians.

Meanwhile, in the whole series of the international comments, political investigations and the analytical materials devoted to the 70 anniversary of this major historical document, the given theme was never considered in a historical retrospective show, without considering mentions of the Versailles contract of 6/28/1919

Confidential additions to contracts were at that time usual practice in the international relations. That has been concluded before the Second World War between the different states of a planet, the most part - till now with a signature stamp "Confidentially"...

No doubt, historical objectivity demands the account of all alignment of forces on international scene on the eve of the conclusion of "the Pact of Molotova Ribbentropa».

Hitler promised all all (in particular to Germany the whole world). In the pact of Molotova - Ribbentropa, about non-aggression of the USSR and Germany, Hitler wanted to exclude a war cloud on  two fronts in Europe, Stalin in turn aspired to return borders of the Russian empire.

Why is that?
Attention!
Video isn't recommended to viewing by the government of Poland to citizens of the country.
youtube.com/watch?v=TTp-LObhPLs&feature=player_embedded
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Jun 2011 #43
Why is that?

It is in Russian, I know nothing about the reason or implications, do the research yourself, I'm too tied to be arsed today.
OP Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #44
So Poles where crazy enough to refuse alliance with Soviets (worthless piece of paper ) and then to refuse alliance with Germany against Soviets and at the same time planning to attack Soviets solo

If you are Hate the commies (so am i) why is Poland did not help to the "white army" during the civil war in Russia, i can understand that half of Poland was under the Russian Empire before the revolution, then you've got the independence ok,

so the commies was good for you? if so why you refuse alliance with Soviets? afraid of Germans? I don't think so, Poland has much more soldiers (as a reserve man) the only think they was too late to mobilize... In that situation Poland was between two potential enemies and to be neutral was a suicide... I think Stalin was waiting for French and British reaction when Nazis invaded to your country and there was no help from the west to Poland at all? However French and British army if they attack at that time WW2 never occurred. Western countries needed Germany attack USSR, they never care about you and me, they just use you for there own benefit...

As a result of the Second World War of the USA became a super-state. As a result at currency-financial conference of the United Nations in Bretton-Vudse in 1944 under the pressure of the USA "the dollar" standard has been confirmed, that is the world currency system has been based on dollar domination. Others 43 countries - participants of the agreement - undertake to sustain fluctuations of the courses to US dollar within 1 %. Since then the US dollar, actually, replaces gold as the basic medium of exchange. Actually the USA have acquired the right uncontrollably to print money and to impose to their other world, buying up world riches for nothing. At that time - the dollar was the unique currency theoretically converted in gold (i.e. had - «the gold standard»). The dollar became base of the currency parities, a prevailing medium of exchange, currency of intervention and reserve actives. According to «the plan of Marshall» (post-war restoration of Europe), in destroyed Europe the stream of the American money has rushed. The economy of the European countries weakened by war couldn't resist to currency expansion of the USA. And as a part of gold and exchange currency reserves of the central banks the dollar took more and more a place - after all they as was considered then, always had a possibility to exchange the American currency on gold at the fixed price. After the Second World War in Europe the new order is established. The USA have earned on it the solid capital - gold reserves of the USA made more than half of world's reserves.
GoldenBomb - | 3
20 Jun 2011 #45
I am not an expert as other people on this forum but I'll try to answer the question.

During the Russian Civil War the White Army had a different stand to Poland than the Red Army. The White Army would not recognize Poland as an independent state but dependent on Russia. The Red Army however recognized Poland as independent as well as recognizing many other things that they wern't going to keep. The Red Army was seen as the lesser evil so Poland did not cooperate with the White Army together against the Red Army.

With the alliance with Germany I believe that has been talked about in the forum if Poland had joined Germany. I mean alliance with the Soviets and Stalin was kinda sealing your fate if thats how it can be explained. The only real choice was an alliance with France and Britain and if Poland were not betrayed Germany would have been quickly defeated and Russia would not have an pre-occupied Polish Army or a hopefull nation believing Russia actually came to help. Some help I may add.


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