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The relations: Church and III Reich (Kosciol-NS Niemcy)


stefanos 1 | 4
21 Feb 2010 #1
The relations and clergy and III Reich


  • Priests salute Hitler

  • Priests salute Hitler

  • Nuncio and Hitler

  • priests and nazis
Orzelbialy - | 17
21 Feb 2010 #2
lol So you got a bunch of priests saluting Hitler, so what? So did the British athletes in the 1936 games( you can see it yourself on youtube). That doesn't mean that entire Vatican assisted or supported what Hitler did. Hitler was born a Catholic but if you read Mein Kampf and the biographies of people who conversed to him about religion like Speer, he wanted the German people to abandon Protestantism and Catholicism because their power wasn't centered around the state. He wanted the German people to accept Nordic paganism which he viewed to be more of a German religion and it suited him more as some core values are strength and loyalty to your superiors.
1jola 14 | 1,879
21 Feb 2010 #3
The relations and clergy and III Reich

So you joined PolishForums to post German priests saluting Hitler. I'm sure you're not a troll. Get lost.
OP stefanos 1 | 4
21 Feb 2010 #4
The Centre Party(Catholic) supported the dictatorship of Hitler!
Vatican helped many nazis and ustashi after the war .; Ratlines and ODESSA....
bishop Hudal, Draganovic etc.

Vatican never excomunicated the priest involved with nazism. Never damned the Monsignor Tiso, Slovak President

Do you know the butcher Ante Pavelic?? He was supported by Vatican!
1jola 14 | 1,879
21 Feb 2010 #5
I see nothing that relates to Poland or our Church in your post. Why are you shouting?. What do know about the Third Reich's treatment of the Polish RCC? Got any photos?
OP stefanos 1 | 4
21 Feb 2010 #6
ah.. catholic priest invaded your country.... Monsignor Tiso!!!

big irony.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Feb 2010 #7
What was the reaction of Polish clergymen in the Third Reich? Even Mussolini, Hitler's wartime ally, wanted Hitler to be excommunicated and that says sth. Like it or not, the RCC became deeply embroiled in politics and Jesus would surely not have wanted that.

Still, a closer tie has to be made with Poland in all this as that disgusting business was between Nazi Germany and their brutal counterparts, the Ustashe.
OP stefanos 1 | 4
21 Feb 2010 #8
Pius XII never excomunicated the criminal priests!!!! (Tiso and others)
lesser 4 | 1,311
21 Feb 2010 #9
ah.. catholic priest invaded your country.... Monsignor Tiso!!!

Tiso repressed Slovakian clergy as well. If you are so inside of Slovakian history, you should have known this. Of course, you are just pathetic troll with a mission. I suggest to visit a psychiatrist.
marqoz - | 195
21 Feb 2010 #10
The Centre Party(Catholic) supported the dictatorship of Hitler!
Vatican helped many nazis and ustashi after the war .; Ratlines and ODESSA....
bishop Hudal, Draganovic etc.

The very old RED tune. Boring. Facts please, not factoids. I found a novel from the Stalin times - very long (1000 pages or so) and the language that defends this 'piece of art' from being read. However there were some illustrations: guys in Nazi caps with hakenkreuz shaking hands with ugly mugs in cardinal's hat and patting big fat cigar smoking capitalist, and another with bishop having blood on his hands. Wow, thriller.

Pope never supported Hitler. If you found some facts denying it, please be specific and share with us and don't disseminate memes. If he was very cautious in open attacking Nazis it was to protect laymen from regressive measures. However:

- in 1934 in the Christmas Eve sermon Pope condemned Nazi,
- in 1935 after Nuremberg statutes were imposed Vatican Radio broadcast a plea to pray for persecuted Jews.
- the Pope's encyclical "Mit brennender sorge" read in 11500 parishes in Germany - Goebbels in response noted in his diary "Now priest must learn our order and tenacity".

- 1938 during meeting with pilgrims from Belgium Pope said: "Antisemitism is unacceptable, we are all Semites spiritually".
- in 1938 cardinal Initzer of Vienna said something positive about Nazis and he was immediately forced to correct it publicly.
- in January 1940 Pope made an instruction for Vatican Radio to show horrible excesses of uncivilized tyranny against Jews and Poles . "Jewish Advocate" - newspaper of Boston wrote about this broadcast as an open condemnation of German crimes made by Nazis in Poland stating that they were insulting moral conscience of the mankind.

The fact is that Catholic clergymen and Catholic laymen saved more Jews than any other institution, organization or state. And the clergyman paid the price. Thousands were imprisoned even archbishops and bishops, many died - 20% of Polish clergymen were executed or killed in Konzentrationlagers (in some Western Polish bishoprics more than 50%) and Polish bishops Kozal & Goral died in KZ.
OP stefanos 1 | 4
22 Feb 2010 #11
lesser
Tiso repressed Slovakian clergy as well. If you are so inside of Slovakian history, you should have known this. Of course, you are just pathetic troll with a mission. I suggest to visit a psychiatrist.[b][/b]

Really?? A roman Priest repressed the clergy?! And Pius XII never damn him!!!
i saw a video that a biskup make a nazi salute to Tiso!!
marqoz - | 195
22 Feb 2010 #12
So how will it be, Stefanos?
Will you still distribute anticatholic memes and factoids?
Or will you respond or comment to the facts I presented to you in my post?
convex 20 | 3,978
22 Feb 2010 #13
The fact is that Catholic clergymen and Catholic laymen saved more Jews than any other institution, organization or state. And the clergyman paid the price. Thousands were imprisoned even archbishops and bishops, many died - 20% of Polish clergymen were executed or killed in Konzentrationlagers (in some Western Polish bishoprics more than 50%) and Polish bishops Kozal & Goral died in KZ.

They also managed to save more Nazis than any other institution, organization, or state. The Catholic church is a huge organization, with some of it's members sympathetic to the plight of the Jews, some supporters of national socialism and fascism. The church was riding it out in the middle. As long as either the fascists or the allies were in power in Italy, the church would be safe. I'm sure if they truly felt threatened, there would have been a much harder line against the Nazis.
marqoz - | 195
22 Feb 2010 #14
They also managed to save more Nazis than any other institution, organization, or state.

Prove it, please, even slightly.

The Catholic church is a huge organization, with some of it's members sympathetic to the plight of the Jews, some supporters of national socialism and fascism.

That's true. Laymen as well as clergymen have their own conscience and political opinions. There were fascist sympathizers, nazi sympathizers, socialism sympathizers, communism sympathizers - and even switching between these mental mistakes. In fact I have no idea how they managed to put it together with Catholicism. But it was their moral problem and intellectual dilemma, not mine.

But to blame the whole organization for some members in minority is a far reaching abuse. Especially when the official statements were unambiguously against that minority. That's my point.
convex 20 | 3,978
22 Feb 2010 #15
Prove it, please, even slightly.

Uh, the ratlines?
marqoz - | 195
22 Feb 2010 #16
I'm not a specialist in this area, so I even won't try to play the wisest.

In Wikipedia I've found:
The existence of Draganović's [Croat Franciscan who created Roman ratline] ratline has been confirmed by a Vatican historian, Fr. Robert Graham: "I've no doubt that Draganović was extremely active in syphoning off his Croatian Ustashe friends." However, Graham insisted that Draganović was not officially sanctioned in this by his superiors: "Just because he's a priest doesn't mean he represents the Vatican. It was his own operation.

I suppose there were some blind eye turning or even unofficial help to escape some figures from the Soviet eye. They knew about the fates of many persons persecuted and falsely accused of Nazi collaboration by Soviets. However I supposed men who - as Draganovic, Hudal - pretended to save only the innocents while providing shelter and escape route for war criminals.

Once again Wiki: The Vatican, which was involved in helping over twelve million refugees and expellees in post-war Europe, was at that point less concerned with the political views of each individual who was participating in the gigantic effort to save millions of people from certain starvation and death. The ratline was possible in the context of the enormity of this task and the resulting general confusion at several levels.

But I'm open to learn more about it.


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