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Recent Lech Walesa interview made by VBS


David_18 68 | 982
15 Oct 2010 #1
This is one of the recent interview with Lech Walesa made by VBS.

They talk about solidarnosc and recent politics and about what Lech Walesa thinks about Barack Obama etc etc.

I seriously love this guy after watching this interview!

Info

Earlier this year right-wing ideologues Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh burned up the airways with excerpts from an interview by former Polish President Lech Walesa, arguing the co-founder of the Solidarity movement and anti-Communism crusader was warning that President Obama was leading the U.S. into the shackles of socialism.

It turns out Beck and Limbaugh were merely manipulating the Nobel Peace Prize winner's words. Classy! Here in a recent interview with VICE's Eddy Moretti, Walesa sets the record straight. Turns out he was merely being used by the right-wing pundits for their own propaganda and actually considers Obama a leader of world reform.


vbs.tv/en-se/watch/politicians-pundits-and-other-people--2/lech-walesa-3--2
Filios1 8 | 1,336
15 Oct 2010 #2
Walesa is a primitive commie dog. He usually just makes a fool out of himself during interviews.
OP David_18 68 | 982
15 Oct 2010 #3
Kidding me right? he is a national hero of Poland!!!
pgtx 29 | 3,159
15 Oct 2010 #4
i wonder if he's gonna lie one day by Lech at Wawel....
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Oct 2010 #5
He's also a socialist. As was/is Solidarity. Nothing wrong with that, but hey, it is what it is.
OP David_18 68 | 982
15 Oct 2010 #6
i wonder if he's gonna lie one day by Lech at Wawel....

Yes he should, he did aloot to Poland and deserves a place in Wawel.

He's also a socialist. As was/is Solidarity. Nothing wrong with that, but hey, it is what it is.

Most of the countries in Europe are socialistic, just that they got a more liberal stand. Look at Sweden for example, being an Democratic socialist country for over 50 years, and still one of the richest countries in europe.
pgtx 29 | 3,159
15 Oct 2010 #7
Yes he should, he did aloot to Poland and deserves a place in Wawel.

too late.... Lech took the last spot...
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Oct 2010 #8
Most of the countries in Europe are socialistic, just that they got a more liberal stand. Look at Sweden for example, being an Democratic socialist country for over 50 years, and still one of the richest countries in europe.

I'm aware of that. The US is probably more socialist than the majority of European governments that are actually run by parties which are part of the Socialist International... Like I said, not arguing with you on it.
OP David_18 68 | 982
15 Oct 2010 #9
too late.... Lech took the last spot...

If it were only 1 spot left and the question was if Walesa or Kaczynski should have it, i would for sure say Walesa. But Kaczynski died before Walesa so no biggie!

Like I said, not arguing with you on it.

Yea i know ;)
pgtx 29 | 3,159
15 Oct 2010 #10
so no biggie!

Lechu, scoop over....lol
gumishu 11 | 5,016
15 Oct 2010 #11
Kidding me right? he is a national hero!!!

I don't count him as such - and you would find a lot more Poles who don't either
Filios1 8 | 1,336
16 Oct 2010 #12
Kidding me right? he is a national hero!!!

Amazing... it seems Poles have no say in anything anymore. Foreigners even tell us who we should treat as our national heros these days.

David, get educated man. Read up on Lech's nice history as Agent Bolek. He screwed over quite a few real patriots to become president. Solidarnosc did not exactly assume control with no strings attached. Lech Walesa, for example, had as a bodyguard former ubeki. From so many people to choose from, he had to choose the dirtiest of the dirty commie scum? To protect him? He was a total buffoon, and you are fooling yourself if you think he was calling the shots.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
16 Oct 2010 #13
It's funny how this nonsense is mostly spouted by those who weren't there.

Anyway, choosing the nastiest communist to protect you isn't a bad idea - when you need protected, you need someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to succeed.

It's funny how one of the strongest supporters of the "Walesa is a traitor" theory just so happened to be protected by his traitor of a father.
milky 13 | 1,657
16 Oct 2010 #14
He comes a cross as very ego-centric,claiming he changed the world. He makes a few good points but then again dont we all. Cliches for popularity. I think the church in Poland needs a good kicking if the country is ever going to mature and undo the wounds inflicted by Stalin and co. So he needs to loose that watery right wing stance.

I hear he charges a gigantic fee for his speeches on the international stage, so he is lying when he says he is not fond of capitalism.To be honest I think Thatcher,Reagan and the right wing church called the shots at the end of the day,he was just the Polish 'human face' blowing shite about a third way;what ever the f0ck that is. From this interview he seems to be a big advocate of the "invisible hand" and free markets. Does he not realise that this is the Chicago boy philosiophy that has the world on its knees. I think he is a confused egocentric. The free-market Shock Therapy worked well on him.
1jola 14 | 1,879
16 Oct 2010 #15
It's funny how this nonsense is mostly spouted by those who weren't there.

And you were, English teacher? If fact, the people who he snitched on to the SB were there in the shipyard with him and in his shop, and they have plenty to say. Do you want to hear it? Besides, Walesa threatens anyone who says he was TW Bolek with lawsuits. He goes as far as saying that it is a 'crime to call him an agent.' lol.

The two Polish historians who wrote an exhaustive and well documented book about his agenture are waiting for him to do just that, for a couple years now. He is a pompous, self-important windbag and had he come clean when he had the chance, I think Polish people woul've forgiven him. Instead, his daughter sued a young, bright historian, who wrote about his youth days, on his behalf. How pathetic. Shill on though, it's PF here and it's OK since this forum is mainly for the perplexed foreigners who wonder why all Polish people alternate feet while walking.

I would recommend some material for young Davie, but he first has to learn to at least read Polish. You would too to get some insight.

Here are his co-workers and real heroes for Solidarity.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
16 Oct 2010 #16
Walesa is an imbecile, all that he did was unite people, a simple electrician, yet in his interviews he talk as if he's some great intellectual.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
16 Oct 2010 #17
On the other hand..........
examiner.com/will-county-libertarian-in-chicago/walesa-will-speak-to-the-evils-of-socialism

If I'm not out of town I will attend this luncheon and ask Walesa a question or two.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
16 Oct 2010 #18
Walesa is an imbecile

Tis dangerous when the baser nature comes
Between the pass and fell incensed points
Of mighty opposites.


If I'm not out of town I will attend this luncheon and ask Walesa a question or two.

Some of the points of the 21 Solidarność Demands stay valid. I have bolded them. Can you ask if workers in current 'Stocznia Gdańska' can say that their dreams have been fulfilled, and if the dreams didn't come true up to now, can be realized in the future?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_demands_of_MKS
1jola 14 | 1,879
16 Oct 2010 #19
Also ask him why does he think he is above the law in Poland and his goon can physically assault a cameraman in court in front of the judge, the police, and plenty witnesess with total impunity? Yes, do ask him something relevant.

Watch it first: youtu.be/CCOFbXvhOjU

The goon is the President of The Walesa Institute. WTF is that?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
16 Oct 2010 #20
Dunno, you might want to tell me why the rabid PiS supporters were allowed to assault the police in Warsaw recently.

Looks to me like both sides are nothing more than common thugs - exactly what the Communists said they were.
1jola 14 | 1,879
16 Oct 2010 #21
This thread is about Walesa and not PiS, nor cream cheese, so focus a little. Besides, I have not heard that PO allowed "PiS supporters" to physically assault the POlice and get away with it. If they did, than you are supporting some weak government that is not fit to have the responsibility to protect its citizens when the ones who are tasked with that job (the POlice)cannot protect themselves.

Looks to me like both sides are nothing more than common thugs - exactly what the Communists said they were.

I'm not even going to touch that nonsense and will excuse you as I sometimes post after a few.

One last thing. If you think that would not rather be proud of Walesa, you are mistaken. I simply cannot be proud of him after I carefully reviewed all available information. My shock goes back at least ten years. It is now well documented and in Poland he has very little support, as you know. The myth is for outside consumption and we wish him well on his money making venture speaking to college students around the world. He was and is a simple man who was manipulated by the SB and did irrepairable damage to our nation. Its a long story and one must want to listen with an open mind to understand the transition from communism to whatever it is called now. It is not as simple as "communism fell" when Walesa jumped the fence. Communism did not fall, but agreed to share power, and boy, was is ever profitable for the communists. Perhaps another time.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
16 Oct 2010 #22
Besides, I have not heard that PO allowed "PiS supporters" to physically assault the POlice and get away with it.

What, you mean you didn't watch the assaults on the police outside the Presidential Palace? Are you really so out of touch?

If they did, than you are supporting some weak government that is not fit to have the responsibility to protect its citizens when the ones who are tasked with that job (the POlice)cannot protect themselves.

Whoever said I was a PO supporter? It's not looking particularly likely that they'll get my vote next month...

And yes, I think the government was weak over the cross issue. It said quite clearly that anyone wishing to cause similar trouble just has to violently resist the police and they'll back down. Certainly, it encourages the Solidarity thugs next time they want to protest about having to actually work for a living.

I'm not even going to touch that nonsense and will excuse you as I sometimes post after a few.

Well, the propoganda said that Walesa and Solidarity were nothing but criminals and thugs. We can now see that both sides - Walesa and Kaczynski have both indulged in thuggery of varying degree - both written and physical. Funny how they were proved right, isn't it? Makes me wonder just who the real bad guys were - and confirms that neither Walesa nor Kaczynski ever wanted real freedom. Heck, Walesa's actions as President plus Jarek's actions as Prime Minister suggest that both of them very much were in the same vein as the Communists.

I simply cannot be proud of him after I carefully reviewed all available information. My shock goes back at least ten years. It is now well documented and in Poland he has very little support, as you know.

The thing I can't understand is why people are so hung up about what he might or might not have done. He lost his support because he was a dreadful President - apart from ensuring that Poland didn't go back to Communism (though all fears of that went after August 24th 1991), he was really a poor President - and there were some very real fears in the Western media that he was going to seize power in Poland.

Even respectable authors have pointed out that his behaviour in Solidarity was nothing short of dictatorial - and this is why I cannot for the life of me understand why his opponents are choosing an alleged collaboration (that cannot be proved one way or another) to beat him with when there's much more verifiable information to use against him.

Communism did not fall, but agreed to share power, and boy, was is ever profitable for the communists.

Of course. I don't think anyone actually denies that the Communists managed to exit with a very good deal. But at the time, what was on the table? The vast majority of Solidarity members supported it, the people supported it - it was a damn good deal given the circumstances.

We know now that it was foolish to share power when they could simply have waited a few more months for it all to collapse, but at the same time - no-one died, no-one was hurt - power was transferred peacefully and decisively. Would you really have wanted a Romanian solution?
gumishu 11 | 5,016
16 Oct 2010 #23
power was transferred peacefully and decisively.

peacefully yes decisevly no (see 'Kozłowski comission' that emptied the remainder of SB archives in existence of 'delicate' material - Adam Michnik was a part in this comission) then again WSI (military intelligence service - who somewhat paradoxically also was very active in internal Polish matters) remained untact right into the new millenium - there are many other issues that make this power transfer not that obvious - remember also that money is the power - and ask yourself what are the roots of some media outlets in Poland - you might be pretty surprised
Filios1 8 | 1,336
16 Oct 2010 #24
haha.. I forgot about that video. Good commie intimidation tactics.

was transferred peacefully and decisively

You're an utter and complete naiive moron who knows nothing about the real situation in Poland. Do you have sources to back this up? Do you know for a fact that the commies in positions of power were replaced and succeeded by Poles outside the party? Or do you use the term decisively very loosely?

Seriously, I would only expect such black and white ideas from children.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
16 Oct 2010 #25
peacefully yes decisevly no (see 'Kozłowski comission' that emptied the remainder of SB archives in existence of 'delicate' material - Adam Michnik was a part in this comission)

Just goes to show that the archives are completely untrustworthy. Not only did we have the Communists routinely falsifying documents, but then we have one side of Solidarity removing documents and another side manipulating documents - really, who in their right mind would trust a damn thing in them these days?

Even more reason to simply lock the documents up and throw the key away - no good can come of them now.

You're an utter and complete naiive moron who knows nothing about the real situation in Poland. Do you have sources to back this up? Do you know for a fact that the commies in positions of power were replaced and succeeded by Poles outside the party?

What a surprise, abuse always comes from hysterical anti-communists (what communists? where? last time I checked, communism was banned in Poland) with nothing better to do with their lives. I'm sure it's some sort of envy that they sat at home on their hands watching TV while the real opposition went out and did things. Either that, or they weren't there.

Anyway, I was talking about political power. It's true that there wasn't a fullscale purge of Communists in top positions, but that didn't happen anywhere except possibly East Germany - and only because West German "experts" came and took their jobs. Heck, even West Germany used Nazi knowledge to reconstruct their country, so why not Poland?
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
17 Oct 2010 #26
Walesa is an imbecile

I wish the world seriously talked about the Berlin Wall - calls for former President Lech Walesa, a few days before the 20th anniversary of the fall of the wall dividing the German capital . It is estimated that from a strategic point of view, it was the most dangerous moment on the way to freedom. - The Berlin Wall has hampered our freedom - he said. Why ? - As turned out to be unnecessary - says Walesa . - Germany defected from Germany and the Soviets let the entire GDR. If Gorbachev was smarter in politics, it could make a very dangerous thing - analyzes Walesa in an interview with the French station France24 . If I was spot on Gorbachev , I would have used it - betrays Walesa . - I would say this: do not run away loved by the Czech Republic and Hungary , all of you I 'll drive straight . Only I ask all of you : sign it , that we go out of this land . I have buyers for it to living in your apartments in the GDR. Because I will not destroy the Warsaw Pact - speculates Walesa . - And the Germans always lose half of the country - the former president added .

Wałęsa: Had Gorbachev been more clever, he wouldn't have had to give back the GDR

He repeated this in the Polish Radio Program I, Monday, April 5, 2010 at 12:00. Asked by a journalist whom he presented his ideas, he answered: I presented them chancellor Merkel.

Now, what do you think about Mr Wałęsa's intelligence?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
17 Oct 2010 #27
It's about what can be expected from someone with primary school education. You don't expect Gazeta Polska or the like to use complicated language, and nor do I expect Lech Walesa to do the same. His leadership of Solidarity and even the Presidency was done in one way - by doing what he thought was right. No more and no less could be expected.

If Gorbachev wanted, the GDR would still be in existence today.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
17 Oct 2010 #28
It's about what can be expected from someone with primary school education.

Lech graduated from primary school and vocational school and did his obligatory stint of military service, attaining the rank of corporal, before beginning work at the Lenin Shipyard in Gdańsk.

Inteligence has nothing to do with education. Shakespeare ended his formal education at 15 and he was exceptionally well educated for his time and age.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718
17 Oct 2010 #29
Really? So why do Kaczynski supporters point to him being better educated than Komorowski? 1jola made this very point the other day - and indeed, most Polish people think that education (or at least, a piece of paper that says "I am educated") is important.

Anyway, isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect some simple electrician to be of profound intelligence? What he said is actually not that stupid - while the GDR was bankrupt, it was still the richest Warsaw Pact country. If Gorbachev had told them to open the borders (on condition that they leave permanently) and replaced them with people from Poland - there still would have been the GDR today.

The fact that the GDR leadership didn't have support from Gorbachev was what sealed their fate, nothing else. If Gorbachev had been fully behind the regime, it wouldn't have gone anywhere. In fact, opening the borders for permanent emigration in exchange for a massive financial bailout from the FRG would have done wonders for the country economically.

Heck, look at 1989 - many of them just wanted to have the ability to travel to the West, not to live there!
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
18 Oct 2010 #30
why do Kaczynski supporters point to him being better educated than Komorowski?

I do not understand your logic. Probably you think that I am a kind of Kaczyński's supporter, but I am not. I am just shocked by Wałęsa's stupidity. Even if you were right about everything you claim, it would be still utter stupidity to say things Wałęsa said, if it is true that he said them, and especially to chancellor Merkel herself. Maybe he is that kind of politician who is not treated serioiusly, but if so, people should be aware of this.


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