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Rajmund Kaczyński not in PZPR


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #1
A new book devoted to Jarosław Kaczyński by Michał Krzymowski X-rays the PiS leader and every aspect of his biography. Despite attempts by PiS-bashers (also on PF) to claim his dad Rajmund was a commie, that myth is definitely overturned. An AK freedom-fighter, after the war he belonged to the Teachers' Association and Ex-Servicemen's Union, both of which were commie-controlled. But in PRL so was the Football Federation, Beekeeper' Association and every other organisation, society and club -- that's what totalitarian regimes are about...
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #2
An AK freedom-fighter, after the war he belonged to the Teachers' Association and Ex-Servicemen's Union, both of which were commie-controlled.

That sentence alone tells you all you need to know about Rajmund Kaczyński.

Meanwhile, his fellow men and women were being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured and worse.
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #3
his fellow men and women were being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured and worse.

Especially those former comrades in the AK. But Rajmund was allowed to continue his university studies, was given a nice residence in a very nice part of Warsaw, allowed to teach the children of the elite and to have his children made into stars. I wonder how that could possibly have happened.

A new book devoted to Jarosław Kaczyński by Michał Krzymowski X-rays the PiS leader and every aspect of his biography.

What does it have to say about Walesa's famous comment about both Kaczynski brothers going to a party, one with his wife and one with his husband?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #4
I wonder if you also would disqualify all PO activists not to mention rank-and-file voters who had belonged to the above as well as the PRL-era Scouting Association, Students Associaton, trade unions of miners, steelworkers, shipyard workers, woodcutters, engineers, nurses, phsyicians, artists, writers, teachers, film-makers, football, volleyball, basketball, handball, skiing, tennis, badminton, etc., etc., etc. associations. Not to mention those who actually belonged to the Soviet-backed PZPR such as Kuroń, Geremek, Balcerowicz and 30 of the PO's Sejm MPs while their fellow men and women were being persecuted, imprisoned, tortured and worse...
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #5
But this isn't about them, it's about Rajmund Kaczyński.

Harry : you forgot that both of his sons were able to enter (and complete) law studies, with one of them (Jarosław) even being able to start studying towards becoming a public prosecutor in the PRL.
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #6
Rajmund Kaczyński.

A man who went straight from being an officer in the AK to being a highly favoured university student and then on managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation and then promptly on to teaching the children of the elite at Poland's finest technical university.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #7
it's about Rajmund Kaczyński

Rajmund was no different than millions of his non-PZPR-belonging compatriots. Life went on even in Auschwitz where people fell in and out of love, sold, bought, borrowed, lent, bribed kapos, etc. even though a day later all that remained of them was a handful of ash.

When the Kaczyński twins were studying at uni all qualified students could study if they passed their entrance exams. Having a father in the AK was no longer the obstacle it had been under Stalinism. Stalinism ended in 1956 when the twins were 7 years old.

You know all this, Delphie Boy, but are enaging in a very cheap demogoguery apparently to deceive those few clueless, foreign-based PF-ers who have no knowledge of Polish history. Are you really willing to sacrifice any shred of credibility you still may have just to get in another swipe at the Kaczyńskis?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #8
Rajmund was no different than millions of his non-PZPR-belonging compatriots.

A man who went straight from being an officer in the AK to being a highly favoured university student and then on managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation and then promptly on to teaching the children of the elite at Poland's finest technical university.

That's not what I would call "no different".

When the Kaczyński twins were studying at uni all qualified students could study if they passed their entrance exams.

Untrue. There was still heavy manipulation going on, and entry into law was very much controlled. You didn't get near law studies if you weren't reliable politically.

Having a father in the AK was no longer the obstacle it had been under Stalinism. Stalinism ended in 1956 when the twins were 7 years old.

So you admit that being in the AK was an "obstacle" under Stalinism. Yet Rajmund didn't just survive, he flourished. How?
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #9
Having a father in the AK was no longer the obstacle it had been under Stalinism.

Interesting that you say that having a father in the AK was an obstacle to studying at university during the Stalin era but you think that it was no problem at all for a former AK officer to both study at and lecture at university during the Stalin era. Care to explain why the kids of AK men had problems but this particular former AK officer didn't have any?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #10
former AK officer

In fairness, was he an officer or a solider?
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #11
I'm pretty sure that he was a lieutenant.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #12
Well, well, well. You're right, he was either a lieutenant or second lieutenant (it doesn't seem to have an exact comparison), which means that he was an ex-AK officer and yet his career flourished at the end of the war during Stalinism.

There's only one conclusion there.
Ironside 49 | 10,626
29 Dec 2015 #13
There's only one conclusion there.

Indeed that you are clueless about polish history?
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #14
There's only one conclusion there.

No, there's more than one. He could have turned traitor on his former AK comrades in order to advance himself. Or he could have always been a traitor to the AK as a secret commie agent. Or he could have, er, well, perhaps Polo can provide us with a better explanation as to why a former AK officer was to both study at and lecture at university during the Stalin era which is the precise time that Polo himself says that having even a father who had served in the AK was an obstacle to even getting a university education?
Ironside 49 | 10,626
29 Dec 2015 #15
during the Stalin era

When was the Stalin era in Poland according to you?

He could have

You could have investigate to bring in facts instated of guesses and gossip but we both know you won't do it as you prefer to gossip like a washerwoman.
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #16
When was the Stalin era in Poland according to you?

The years in which Stalin dictated what happened in Poland, i.e. the same years in which Rajmund Kaczynski went from being an officer in the AK to being a highly favoured university student and then on managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation and then promptly on to teaching the children of the elite at Poland's finest technical university, all at a time when even Polo says that having even a father who had served in the AK was an obstacle to even getting a university education.

You could have investigate to bring in facts

It's a fact that he went straight from being an officer in the AK to being a highly favoured university student. It's a fact that he was given a managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation. It's a fact that he quickly went on to teaching the children of the elite at Poland's finest technical university. It's a fact that he was given a nice residence in a very nice part of Warsaw. It's a fact that his children were made into stars. It's a fact that his children were admitted to course pretty much reserved for the children of the connected. Or do you have evidence to contradict any of those facts?
Ironside 49 | 10,626
29 Dec 2015 #17
The years in which Stalin dictated what happened in Poland, i.e. the same years in which Rajmund Kaczynski went from being an officer in the AK to

No, most historians agrees that Stalinism in Poland stared in 1948 and ended in 1956. Whereas R.Kaczysnki finished his studies in 1947 like many others AK-officers or members. At the time majority of professors were still from per-war sort.

being a highly favoured university student

Highly favored is your invention of curse, that shows your bias.

then on managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation

Poland after the war needed badly all engineers and technical specialist they could get their hands off so it was quite often that soviets overlooked some flaws in order to be able to run the country. It is not a secret either.

all at a time when even Polo says that having even a father who had served in the AK was an obstacle to even getting a university education.

later - yes but not in the years1945 - 1948.

It's a fact

It is fact open to interpretation. You are accusing someone who is long death of being a traitor or a snitch and for that a common if not a basic decency dictate that you investigate thoughtfully that case. You need to bring in some proof beside facts of life, gossip and guesses.
Harry
29 Dec 2015 #18
At the time majority of professors were still from per-war sort.

At the time? Meaning after that time the majority of the professors were not? So how was it that a former AK officer was able to lecture at the finest technical university in Poland when for others even having a father who had served in the AK was an obstacle to even getting a university education?

Highly favored is your invention of curse

What percentage of those who wanted to be students in 1945 were able to be students? Are you trying to tell us that the Polish university system was miraculously rebuilt and able to admit every would-be student in 1945? Or did only a favoured few get places in the ruins of the system that year?

later - yes

So you want us to believe that even having a father who had served in the AK was an obstacle to even getting a university education but actually being a former AK officer was perfectly acceptable? Pull the other one son, it's got bells on it.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #19
Indeed that you are clueless about polish history?

Looks like you're the clueless one. Stalinism might have only officially started in 1948, but the TRJN was very much controlled by the Communists from 1945 onwards. AK officers didn't get to re-enter their studies straight away, nor did they get nice cushy positions straight after graduation.

Rajmund Kaczynski went from being an officer in the AK to being a highly favoured university student and then on managerial position in a state company in the year of his graduation and then promptly on to teaching the children of the elite at Poland's finest technical university

Quite.

Quite incredible that such a non-Party man would be allowed to go anywhere near the children of the elite.
Ironside 49 | 10,626
29 Dec 2015 #20
Pull the other one son, it's got bells on it.

I see you are insisting on casting aspersion on people long death without any evidence. Good day to you son. Say hallo to your three bells at the end of your three-pronged hat - in vivid red. It suits you something beautiful.

Stalinism might have only officially started in 1948

Please delph, nothing started officially. Do you think they announced on the radio - today we are introducing Stalinism, it was done step by step, all process didn't happen overnight.

Most historian agree as to those dates.
Many AK officers have been able to study or finish their studies in the years presiding 1948 although some have been arrested.

AK officers didn't get to re-enter their studies straight away, nor did they get nice cushy positions straight after graduation.

Reread my posts.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #21
Quite incredible that

.....Quite incredible that someone like yourself posing to be an expert on Polann and Polish affairs doesn't realise that all commie regimes based their power on Soviet bayonets, the NKVD, domestic security forces and the support of assorted proles, landless peasants and common thugs. They lacked expertise

on how to organise, run and design things, hence engineers and educated people were worth their weight in gold and they could affair to overlook their partylessness.

One question: why has Rajmund been singled out for your especial scruitiny and criticism? He played no major rule on the public scene -- just one of many.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #22
They lacked expertise on how to organise, run and design things, hence engineers and educated people were worth their weight in gold and they could affair to overlook their partylessness.

You're suggesting that Rajmund was that even worse kind of beast - the type that collaborated?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #23
the type that collaborated?

Did a surgeon in a regime-run children's hospital who saved young lives collaborate? Did a janitor who tified and repaired things in a state school collaborate? Did a tram driver taking people to and from work collaborate? Did a professor of English literature at a state university collaborate? If you define collabroation as workign at a job in a state instution collabroation, then nearly all people going about their daily lives are forced to collaborate to put food on their table and raise their families. Playing the fool again? You know all this, but maybe some PF-ers will finally see you for what you are -- a provocative troll!
jon357 63 | 15,598
29 Dec 2015 #24
The issue is entirely about Kaczynski Senior. The matter is fishy to say the least; has been asked for some years now without a satisfactory answer. And doesn't look like it's going away any time soon.

A lot of questions here about something very murky.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Dec 2015 #25
Kaczynski Senior

What makes him so important? One of many. Undisitnguished and non-descript. Why has he been signled out by you and other Hairy Blowhards for such great interest and scrutiny. He came and went and made no major imprint on anything.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
29 Dec 2015 #26
The matter is fishy to say the least; has been asked for some years now without a satisfactory answer.

I think we'll see the question brought up sooner rather than later. Someone with parliamentary immunity needs to ask him straight to his face how it all transpired, but we all know that they'll just cut the microphone.
jon357 63 | 15,598
29 Dec 2015 #27
This will happen. We can be sure the PiS controlled IPN will be useless, however the pro-democracy movement is a strong one; certainly stronger than PiS and the truth will come out over the course of the next few months.
mafketis 24 | 8,879
30 Dec 2015 #28
"Rajmund Kaczyński not in PZPR"

Big deal, neither was Jerzy Urban.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,258
30 Dec 2015 #29
Why has he been signled out by you and other Hairy Blowhards for such great interest and scrutiny. He came and went and made no major imprint on anything.

In the latest book on Jarosław Kaczyński its author says that Kaczyński senior was in fact "cut off" from the upbringing of his sons and the relations between father and sons were not that easy at all. Mother Jadwiga Kaczyńska played the decisive role in the life of the children. Since the ... could not find anything interesting in the political sense against Mrs Kaczyńska, they singled out Rajmund and always cry about him like ageing aunts who never married. As simple as that.
Harry
30 Dec 2015 #30
Why has he been signled out by you and other Hairy Blowhards for such great interest and scrutiny.

Perhaps some people are not such PIS-ed up "VIP" types that they actually able to take an interest in Polish politics? Such people are going to find it interesting that a man who has got where he is (i.e. the unelected dictator of Poland) in large part due the privileges afforded to him as the son of a man who managed to go in a few years from being an unqualified officer in the AK to lecturing the children of the elite in Poland's finest technical university at a time when even having a father who had served in the AK would present severe problems to even studying at university. It's the same interest that is drawn by a political party claiming to hate former communists and then appointing former communists who did things such as prosecuting dissidents to positions of power. The same interest that is drawn by a party which claims to be first and foremost about law simply ignoring the Polish constitution whenever it wants to.


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