Maybe the Germans and Austrians could be labeled somewhat as instigators or more precisely accelerating/increasing the conflict but WW1 did not have the figure head leaders or more importantly the atrocities of WW2, needed to label one side good and/or bad.
Each person who died in WWI was a person with parents, siblings, a wife, children. They mattered.
Jesus... Now you're being a nasty demagogue. Of course everyone matters, but any sane person understands that losses of such magnitude as Polish losses during World War II are likely to eclipse everything
that came before it in the society's consciousness.
I was seeking information Paulina.
No, you weren't. That's the problem and hence my reaction. You figured it all out for yourself even before making this thread as evidenced by your later comments following your "questions".
And, as often it is in your case, the answer that was born in your chauvinist, prejudiced head was: Poles are bad, baaad, horrible people and that's it folks :)))
Now maybe you will tell me again: noooo, I was just asking a question because I was "curious" and stuff and I wanted to know, to "learn"...
And I will say: "Really?"
Then why when jon357 explained it to you, you just went on with your prejudiced rant?
"the coldhearted indifference
of the Polish authorities and indeed of the Polish nation to the dead of a massive conflict that claimed so many lives"
"I don't mean to sound horrible
*(but you knew that you were and you just kept going :))
*, really I don't, but it's as if Poland likes to perpetuate and promote the image of Poland as the victim
of WWII and tries to diminish its involvement
in WWI because it doesn't sit very comfortably
with that image. "
"fighting to all intents and purposes on the wrong side
with the Hun, the First World War is conveniently forgotten
"The tragedy of Poles who were forced to kill each other should certainly be treated with some regret and respect for those dead.
" *(Like we have no regret and respect for them?)
So, the only explanation for you is that Poles must be coldhearted, indifferent, it's because we like to perpetuate and promote the image of Poland as the victim of WWII and we diminish "involvement" in WWI because it doesn't sit very comfortably with that image.
Well, Atch, your theory and attitude shows how prejudiced, ignorant, arrogant and Western-centered you are.
If you are a friendly and open minded person who wants to have good relations with foreigners domiciled in your country,
I am a friendly and open minded person as I've proven many times on this forum (you yourself called me "a lovely girl"), but I don't see a reason to be friendly with prejudiced, two-faced people.
then it might be better to show a little patience and courtesy towards them.
One of the reasons why I write such long posts on this forum (I don't write comments that are THAT long in other places on the internet) is to explain things to you people about Poland and Poles. But sometimes even my patience is all but spent. And believe me, considereing your prejudice and chauvinism (your "Irish brilliance" that Ziemowit ridicules) I am
being courteous towards you. A Russian in the same situation would mercilessly ridicule you and eat you raw :) Maybe except for a few liberals, but they are saints
and I truly admire them lol
However, I find it odd that there are Red Army monuments etc all over the place still, after all these years since the end of communism, yet very little to draw public attention to the victims of WWI.
I don't understand what's "odd" about it. The memory of WWII is not only more painful but also more recent, fresh. There are still people alive who lived through the WWII. I was waiting for a visit at the doctor and some very elderly man with manners of a pre-war gentleman and still a very handsome face with beautiful blue eyes sat next to me and told me about his life, that he was a pilot and a prisoner of a concentration camp in Northern Nazi Germany and then he was in a secret service prison in communist Poland and when he was released his weight was something over 40 kilos.
WWI is history
Just like Polish uprisings, for example. I've seen once some sort of monument indicating a mass grave of Polish insurgents from the January Uprising somewhere deep in the woods at Karczówka mountain - I wouldn't even know about it if I didn't wander there in the search of forest flowers and I probaly wouldn't be able to find it again. It was in a bad shape, obviously, and it made me sad that noone will lit a candle for people who fought for our independence so I just put flowers that I picked in the forest under the modest monument and prayed a little.
As for Red Army monuments - they are all over the place because Poland was a communist country and a Soviet Union's puppet. Does such obvious fact really has to be explained? Atch, how long have you been living in Poland?
Lol??? Really? You find the war dead a source of amusement do you?
No, I don't. But I do find your self-righteous, judgmental, arrogant, insolent, ignorant and prejudiced attitude amusing, yes :) Hence my "lol".
My grandfather lost his twin brother in the Battle of the Somme and his older brother at Ypres.
That's sad, Atch, but that's what wars are like. I don't know what were my family's experiences in WWI, I only know some of my family's experiences during WWII, like my grandfather and his family almost starving to death, his sister dying (his other sister told me once while standing over her grave with her eyes bulging and staring at me that I look like her... That was creepy...), my other grandfather fought in the underground against the Nazis, one of my relatives survived Auschwitz... Most of Polish families were affected to a lesser or a greater degree by the WWII. The "family memory" of WWI is non-existent in comparison.
Maybe here lies the reason... British families weren't affected to such an extent by the WWII as Polish families were... Let alone Irish families...
Atch, aren't you by any chance feeling some kind of discomfort because of the behaviour of Ireland during World War II and that's why you're "mirroring" it on Poland and taking it out on Poles in this thread?
I'm Irish. A thousand years of war and bloodshed.
Most countries in Europe have a thousand years of war and bloodshed but I don't think there's anything in the recent history of Ireland that would be comparable to Nazi and Soviet occupation of Poland and the general horror of WWII in this region of Europe, tbh.
And anyway, I don't lecture you on what kind of attitude you should have towards your
dead and their graves, especially considering that I'm no expert on the history of your
country and the sentiments your
nation may or may not have.
The insolence of some Western people is sometimes really astounding.
Interestingly, Ireland was unable to bring itself until very recently to honour the war dead of those two conflicts because they served in the British army.
That's your problem and your shame so don't "mirror" it on us. Those Poles who fought during WWI were never dishonoured the way those Irish who fought against the Nazis were in Ireland. We are well aware of the tragic situation of the Polish soldiers during WWI - I was taught about it during history classes at school. Just like about Ireland's neutrality during WWII, btw.
Now thank God Ireland is mature enough to acknowledge and honour the sacrifice of those men.
Yes, Ireland is mature since 2012 - it took you long time, didn't it lol
But you see - Poland never had anything against Poles who died fighting during WWI. Actually, anyone who attended history classes in Polish school knows that those Poles who survived WWI used their war experience and military training in the Prussian army, for example, to fight for independence later on against those same Germans that were their "brothers in arms" during WWI. Ironic, isn't it?
Now, Atch, if you don't like the tone of my comments - pity, but I don't like your tone either. I don't like your prejudice, arrogance, your closed mind, your chauvinism and your two-faced attitude. You don't have any inhibitions when talking about Poles and Poland so why would I have any when talking about you, right?
So I guess we're even.
Here's a link to an interesting article
I don't see what WWI has to do with de-Germanization. It doesn't make sense to me, tbh.
As I was saying earlier, there are many cemeteries in Poland, all kinds of cemeteries from all kinds of wars, uprisings, mass executions, etc.
Some are better kept, some are neglected. There are Soviet cemeteries that are well kept and there are Soviet cemeteries that are neglected. There are WWI cemeteries that are well kept and there are those which are neglected.There are WWII cemeteries that are well kept and there are those which are neglected. There are Jewish cemeteries that are well kept and there are those which are neglected. There are uprisings cemeteries/monuments that are well kept and there are those which are neglected.
The general rule is that the older the war and the graves are the less likely they are to be well kept or remembered. I don't see any ill intent in this or sth done on purpose or out of some kind of selective "coldhearted indifference" lol Poland isn't as rich as Western countries are though and so we have to prioritise somewhat, I imagine, which cemeteries to care for. Even at Powązki Cemetery in Warsaw which is a historic cemetery, the most famous cemetery in the city and one of the oldest, famous people, actors and such, are collecting money every year during All Saints Day for renovation of the more important graves - and even those have to be prioritised/selected because there's simply not enough money to renovate all of them.
And, as I wrote earlier - WWI means sth different to Poles and sth different to the West. When will you learn that there's a whole world outside the West and that not everyone has the same viewpoint on everything?
There were many wars in Poland, there were many Poles killed in all kinds of conflicts and massacres, there was an enforced communist "amnesia" and censorship on all kinds of things that we're still coming to terms with, like, for example - the Katyń massacre - after some time after the collapse of communism there were still people who thought it was done by Germans, did you know?
And you're complaining about graves of people who died a century ago? Why not two centuries ago, or 3 or 4 or 5, or 1000 years ago for that matter? They "mattered" too and they had "parents, siblings, a wife, children" too.
Your family and your country was probably more affected by WWI than by WWII. Fine, that's your history.
Our is different. Deal with it. Accept it that we're different, we have different history and maybe different sensibilities. Not everything has to be like in the West. And maybe not everything can be (at least not yet).
And next time, if you don't want me to be "unfriendly" with you, stop at asking a question and wait (patience
) for an answer if you actually want to learn
) something instead of inventing prejudiced theories (friendliness
Now, Atch, be good and sin no more :P
(And look at the length of my post - that IS
patience on my behalf, trust me lol)