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What would they think of today's Poland...?


pgtx 29 | 3,159
16 Mar 2010 #1
Polish citizens.
They were leaders.
They were hard workers.
They loved Poland.
They fought for Poland.
They built Poland.
They lived for Poland.

They are not with us anymore. They died hundreds of years ago. They died years ago.

What would they think of today's Poland?
Would they be pleased or disappointed?

Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
16 Mar 2010 #2
What would they thing of today's Poland?
Would they be pleased or disappointed?

They would be please because
1. Poland is independent
2. Quite good economy (comparing to second Republic)
3. No huge problems with ethnic groups (was a tiresome problem in second Republic)
4. Russia is "blocked" by other "independent" countries
5. Germany isn't NAZI controlled and have no plans for destroying the Polish language or nation (THIS IS A HUGE STEP :D)
6. Poland leads the way as protector of "eastern" Europe in the EU

They would been dissapointed
1. There are few Poles today in Poland and plenty travel out-broad without coming back again
2. Poland's ties with certain countries as Hungary, Italy or France isn't that huge as it was
3. "What on earth are they wearing?!"
4. Certain Polish cities aren't in Poland

So I think they would been pleased :)
plk123 8 | 4,150
16 Mar 2010 #3
yeah, i think they'd be pleased... Polska has done pretty well since '89, for sure.
Torq 26 | 2,371
16 Mar 2010 #4
Poland's ties with certain countries as Hungary

Well, we don't have a personal union with Hungary anymore (mostly because
we are not kingdoms anymore ;)) but the ties are still very strong.

Apart from the eternal Hungarian-Polish friendship being recognized in both societies
on an unheard of level in a history of any other relations between any other two
countries in the world it is also visible in top level politics. Not many people know
that in the first, freely elected Hungarian parliament, about 10% of its members
spoke Polish and in 2007 both Polish and Hungarian parliaments established the
Day of Polish-Hungarian Friendship (it's on March 23rd and I have a special thread
coming for the occasion).

France

I'd say that at the moment ties with France are much stronger than they ever
were before. France is the largest foreign investor in Poland and recently we
signed an atomic energy co-operation agreement (which I hope includes a couple
of secret paragraphs about creating Polish force de frappe)

Italy

They're still quite strong. We share the same Latin civilization and Roman-Catholic
religion and Fiat is still the largest car manufacturer in Poland.
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Mar 2010 #5
I'd say that at the moment ties with France are much stronger than they ever
were before. France is the largest foreign investor in Poland

Are you sure about that? Germany, Holland, and Sweden are responsible for way more FDI and trade than France.
paiz.gov.pl/poland_in_figures/foreign_direct_investment

You probably don't like it, but Germany is far and away Polands biggest economic partner.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,795
16 Mar 2010 #6
You probably don't like it, but Germany is far and away Polands biggest economic partner.

But Torq likes France much more....:(

Germany 16.24%

France 5.69%

*scratches head at Hollands and Luxembourg high numbers*
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Mar 2010 #7
*scratches head at Hollands and Luxembourg high numbers*

Holland because of shipping and banking and Luxembourg because of all the holding companies based there.
Torq 26 | 2,371
16 Mar 2010 #8
Are you sure about that?

Yes. That's what the official numbers say anyway (investments, large companies'
presence, trade exchange etc. etc.) I posted links before - I can try and find them
again later.

You probably don't like it, but Germany is far and away Polands biggest economic partner.

They are our second largest partner after France and it has nothing to do with me
liking it or not. In fact, I have absolutely nothing against German investments in Poland
(maybe if they invest enough, they won't think about invading us again :)).

But Torq likes France much more....:(

That's true, but I like you just as much as if you were French, BB :)
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Mar 2010 #9
They are our second largest partner after France and it has nothing to do with me
liking it or not.

I think the references that you are using were from back in the early 2000's when France bought up a bunch of banks. Investment has tapered off substantially.

Apparently Holland has the largest overall holdings, followed by Germany, France, and all the countries that use Luxembourg for holding companies.

Germany is also the destination or source for 25% of foreign trade...I'd say they are probably by and large the largest economic partner. Mix in some EU money, a couple million Poles in Germany, and you've got a mutually beneficial relationship.

Paiz has the latest information, NBP only has the 2008 report online.
nbp.gov.pl/publikacje/zib/zib2008.pdf

But back to what would they think of Poland. What would they think about the countryside vs. the city? Would they feel comfortable with Polands place in Europe? Would they feel ok with the perception of Poland in Europe?
Torq 26 | 2,371
16 Mar 2010 #10
I think the references that you are using were from back in the early 2000's when France bought up a bunch of banks.

Not only banks but also French Télécom bought the TP S.A. and other giant French
companies invested in Poland (Vivendi Universal, Carrefour, Casino, Crédit Agricole,
Saint Gobain, Auchan). The cummulated French investments in Poland in 2005 were
about 15 billion Euro (ahead of Netherlands, Germany and USA). I don't have any newer
data but I can recall that even recently, in various press articles and radio programmes,
France was referred to as the largest foreign investor in Poland.

NBP only has the 2008 report online.

It looks like they only give data about capital flow and direct investments in the single
2008 year only. I meant the overall value of all assets and investments that a country
has in Poland and apparently the leader is still France.

Anyway - it's not a big deal for me really. As far as I am concerned it can be Germany,
Russia, Japan or USA - it's all the same as long as they invest their money here.
Arien 3 | 721
16 Mar 2010 #11
What would they think of today's Poland...?

They would think: ''Wow, I wish I was alive, so I could've dated chicks like pgtx!''

:)
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Mar 2010 #12
and investments that a country has in Poland and apparently the leader is still France.

If you go down further they have total positions of foreign companies in the Polish market.

But like you said....as long as there is money coming in, doesn't really matter who it's coming from. I wonder how long it will take for FDI to pick back up...
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
17 Mar 2010 #13
What would they think of today's Poland...?

I think it is one of those ironic things that would happened if you could ask them.
Poland is independent and capitalist, both were earned the hard way by these people but in my experience people complain about capitalism because it so often leads to materialism.

But after looking at what Poland and her people have been through, I think they would be very proud. Sure it is not perfect but at least it is getting better, it has even surpassed my expectations.

Germany is far and away Polands biggest economic partner.

As Germany is such a big economic force, it is not surprising. I am of the opinion that business like that prevents wars. It is also a healthy sign that people have moved on.
frd 7 | 1,399
17 Mar 2010 #14
They lived for Poland.

And they did a lot of stupid things. I'm sure that history of every country is pretty even some mistakes are just not mentioned in history books. Great heroes are in many cases just myths. Same with Poland, beside wars usually create opportunities for more heroic situations and great people to spawn, we can't sulk over the idea of not being in a state of war can we?
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Mar 2010 #15
As Germany is such a big economic force, it is not surprising. I am of the opinion that business like that prevents wars. It is also a healthy sign that people have moved on.

It's either trade or war. Strong economic ties are a great deterrent. The golden arches theory still manages to work pretty well.

Please keep this thread ON TOPIC.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Mar 2010 #16
They would be pleased for some very simple reasons:

1) National safety - needless to say, this has developed into a complex amongst the many who are determined never to let any trampling take place again.

2) Commitment to education - Poland has kept access to education very reachable for the great majority of people. They want to prepare people for the future in those areas that will make a difference.

3) Connections to nature - There are many cycling routes which allow people easy access to Poland's lovely forests and countryside areas (yes, Crow, devoid of Mujas)

4) Reduced unemployment - Ignoring the mass exodus to the UK, Poland has kept its unemployment numbers down of late. 11.5% is not that bad. It could be a lot worse really and it was once worse.


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