Study Shows Irish Voters Rejected the Nice Treaty Referendum Due to Poland's Entry Into the EU

As discussed there were several motives established behind Irish voters expressing their rage and rejection of Poland's hard-won and thoroughly merited accession to the EU.

I'm alright, Pollack, keep your hands off of my stack!

One was simply about the money and the profound fear and loathing which consumed the Irish at the mere prospect of having their EU welfare fix reduced should Poland join.

As an aside, I encourage readers to explore how Poland successfully used EU funds to stabilise, modernise and grow its economy year on year since accession.

Now compare Poland's responsible investment approach and resulting prosperity to Ireland's 40-plus year EU welfare dependency which still resulted in such ignominious highlights for Ireland like it being part of the profligate but insolvent nation of EU PIIGS during the Eurozone debt crisis during the 2000s. How Ireland pulled off dirty, behind-closed-doors deals with the EU to exceed its existing over-fishing capacity with its super trawler the Atlantic Dawn by allowing it to plunder West African fishing stocks and decimate local African livelihood. And how Ireland ultimately decided to facilitate murky global tax avoidance schemes by becoming the world's biggest corporate tax haven thus robbing countless communities all around the world of much needed revenue for local causes.

Give Ireland back to the Irish

Although Ireland found comfort and happiness in its dependency on the EU's udder, the Irish as voters indeed had other motive for ruling against Poland which were much more pathological and deeply rooted in centuries of ethno-nationalism.

I am not referring to the decades of discrimination and distrust which the established Irish immigrants in the New World exacted against newly arrived Polonia (this would be a voluminous thread topic all on its own).

Rather, there is no denying that the Irish Republic's violent history is one centred around protecting and preserving Irish identity. Today this is also classed under identitarianism.

The Irish struggle against the British is often portrayed as one between Catholics and Protestants. But this is misleading as it was never a conflict regarding differences in Christian practices of worship. Indeed, as a majority Catholic nation, the Irish people should have been the most enthusiastic of all about welcoming Poland due to her centuries of Catholic tradition and suppression under communism (more on that later).

But they were not.

Despite being a motley mix themselves, the Irish have always been acutely aware of their own ethnicity and what they regard as their own culture.

This began long before the 20th century with their wars with the Scottish who themselves were conquered by the English.

Although being completely Anglicised (even to the point of enjoying free rights to settle and enter politics in the UK akin to Puerto Ricans and the US), the Irish still spent most of the 20th century in vocal and violent opposition to Britain while deliberately remaining neutral and detached from Polish plight during WWI, WWII and the Cold War.

As stated in the study I shared, the Irish didn't even regard Poles as being European.

As far as the Irish were concerned Poles were just another bunch of foreigners on the Continent who didn't speak English.

Fast forward to 2001 and it is clear that Ireland's own membership in the EU did not change Irish nationalist sentiment at all.

It still kept simmering under the surface and only erupted into a raging boil at the ballot box when Poland's accession meant that Poles could also enjoy free movement of labour and the right to settle in other EU states like Ireland.

And the Irish nationalists were having none of it. Not only because they would have to compete with highly skilled Poles on their own Irish turf but because they knew their Irish identity would once again face displacement if not replacement.

For Irish nationalists they knew their identitarian struggle would continue and their no vote was their warning shot that Poland should back off and go away.

One last time for Lenin

Irish nationalism however should not be seen as a monolithic movement but rather as a unified objective which inspired and beckoned many radicals from across Ireland's incongruous society.

Take for example the Irish Republic Army which had many active members and even more tacit supporters.

What is not widely known (because it isn't talked about) is that the IRA had Marxist political origins.

Not only that but the IRA also entered into a secret agreement with the Soviet Union in the 1920s to secure funding and solicit weaponry. The IRA also regularly met with Soviet officials in Moscow, London and New York throughout the 1930s, 1940s and beyond.

But thanks to true Poles and Second Polish Republic champions like Zbigniew Brzezinski and Karol Wojtyla (aka Pope John Paul II) Poland was liberated from Soviet occupation and oppression once and for all.

However, Poland's declaration of freedom clearly would never be welcomed by any living pro-Soviet IRA member or their descendants.

Obviously, these "The Red Flag" whistling Bolshevik has-beens took their grudge out on free and independent Poland at the Irish ballot box.


NB: "The Red Flag" is a socialist anthem written proudly by an Irishman.

It's all there.

So, despite having been exposed as a notorious liar and manipulator, the OP is still fighting on... :):) Funny. Does it count on the fact that its post has started a new page in this thread and readers will be too lazy to check the previous pages???

Oh Sh*tty, you spent a lot of time and effort on that , sadly to little avail. You still didn't address the original lies though - come on please, let's see the evidence of hate crimes against Poles in Ireland and let's see those stats about foreigners outnumbering the Irish.


Now, now now - your very poor grasp of Irish history is once again evident. Ireland was not neutral in WWI. Do your research properly.


To which IRA are you referring?


Which wars would those be?


What is an Irish nationalist?

As for 'completely anglicized, you've obviously never been to Ireland, but I think we gathered that anyway :) Slán go fóill agus go n-éirí an bóthar leat.


Addressing this one separately as I didn't have time earlier.

As you're a complete ignoramus you won't know that Ireland was one of the very few countries who refused to acknowledge the PRL (indeed we had no diplomatic relations with any Eastern Bloc countries until the mid 1970s). We continued to recognize the Polish Government in Exile till 1963, though the Polish Consulate in Dublin closed in 1958. Following that, there was no Polish embassy in Ireland nor Irish embassy in Poland, until 1990.

Due to our refusal to recognize the government of the PRL, Poland joined the Soviet Union in vetoing Ireland's application for UN membership. Ireland had begun raising money to build a hospital in Warsaw as part of our contribution to immediate post-war relief for Poland but our application was refused by the Polish Communist government.

Immediately after the war, through the Polish Government in Exile, Ireland invited members of the Polish Home Army to come to Ireland to study. The invitation was initially issued by University College Cork. The scheme came to an end in 1962.

In 1983, apart from the aid already being given by the Irish government to address food shortages in Poland, the Irish people raised funds to send twenty containers of medical supplies, food and clothing to the people of Poland.


I'm glad you mentioned him. On his visit to Ireland in 1979 he specifically requested that he visit the ancient monastery of Clonmacnoise as he understood that it was from there that the Irish monks had come to Poland to bring the Catholic faith "and for this gift of the faith to Poland, I today thank God in this sacred place."

I don't have time for the rest of your nonsense now, but there's so much material there to work with - it's meat and drink to me as my dear grandmother would say.

Irgnoramuses are gonna ignoramize.... what can you do about it?

It was "Officially".
The IRA have always been left leaning,and still are.
Irish Nationalists tended to side with The IRA.
Atch,Shitonya may be an ignoramous,but you do yourself no favours by seemingly supporting a left leaning, nationalist, terrorist group like The IRA.

No, it wasn't.


No, the IRA was not a left wing organization. The IRA is not the same organization as the Provisional IRA. That's why I asked Sh*tty 'which IRA' he was referring to. Although obviously, just like you, he doesn't know the difference.


Another ignorant and false statement. The majority of Nationalists in the North of Ireland did not support the Provisional IRA. The peace movements which abounded in NI from the mid 1970s onwards demonstrated that very clearly. As I have stated many, many times on this forum, Irish people, North and South (bar a tiny handful of extremists) do not support in any shape or form the activities of the Provisional IRA. It was for precisely this reason that we voted for the Good Friday Agreement back in 1998 - to end the violence.

I don't expect anybody to have any knowledge of Irish history or any interest in it BUT, if they raise the subject or involve themselves in a discussion on it, then I DO expect them to know what they're talking about - and if they don't know what they're talking about, I expect them to educate themselves before opening their mouths.

Another thing I'd like to know, is Sh*tty's rationale for why the Nice treaty succeeded second time round, such a short time after the initial 'no' vote. What changed?? I know the answer, wonder if he does.

The policy of Irish neutrality during World War II was adopted by the Oireachtas at the instigation of the Taoiseach Éamon de Valera upon the outbreak of World War II in Europe.

Oh for God's sake, we're talking about World War One - WWI, not WWII. Don't speed read.


And I responded

You are right,I was speed reading.

But discussing Ireland's neutrality in WW1 is just silly as The Republic did not even exist then!

Precisely. That's what I mean by Sh*tty not having a clue what he's talking about. However, it should be noted that every Irishman who joined up during WWI did so voluntarily, as there was no conscription in Ireland plus Irish involvement in World War One was officially supported by many leading Irish politicians and Nationalists of the time. John Redmond who was the leader of the main Irish nationalist party urged all members of the Irish Volunteers (the Old IRA as the Irish call them) to join the British army and fight Germany.

In the same way, Sh*tty talks about the violent history of the Republic of Ireland. The Republic was founded in 1949 and has no history of civil war, violence or aggression towards any other nation or group of people. Our only military engagements have been as Peacekeepers, starting with the Congo back in the 1950s. Incidentally later this year, 100 Polish soldiers will be joining the Irish Battalion in the Lebanon to replace 100 of our soldiers who are required for other duties.

Yes, but as I stated previously, the Irish as a people were very much aware of their own identity.

As stated in post #61 it was the Irish (as a people) who were neutral and detached from Polish plight during WWI, WWII and the Cold War.

Indeed, during the middle of WWI, Irish republicans declared Ireland as an independent republic and began their armed rebellion (known as the Easter Rebellion which was supported by Germany) against British rule. British attempts at conscripting the Irish during the war was met with so much fierce resistance that the British abandoned the plan.

This background clearly demonstrates that the Irish will actively take to the streets (like the did at the ballot box in 2001 in their vote against Poland) to fight for their priorities.

Even though Poland had long been partitioned by Imperial Russia and Austro-Hungary the Irish gave no thought about Poles and Polish aspiration for Polish independence. For the Irish, ancient Polish lands were merely a battlefield on the Continent during WWI. The Irish as subjects of the United Kingdom could very well have lobbied the British government to liberate Poles during WWI. They didn't because they didn't care. Ditto WWII and the Cold War.

So, have there been other matters which spurred the Irish to action over the decades apart from resistance to the British?

Certainly.

Here is the list:

Anti nuclear campaigns; anti economic austerity measures; calls for the legalisation of abortion; demands for open borders to non-EU migration; and opposition to Poland's accession to the EU.

They didn't need to conscript. Around 140,000 Irish volunteers fought in WWI.

Thank goodness nobody here is stupid enough to take any notice of your pig ignorance - well in fairness it's not just ignorance and stupidity, it's a form of mental illness as well.

And as usual, you didn't answer any of the errors in your previous post, which I pointed out to you.

Btw as I write, I'm sitting metres away from a leather box containing the medals of some of those members of my Irish family who fought (and died) in World War One - what about you Sh*tty??

i wish you would get your facts straight before typing rubbish. Irish people volunteered, in both world wars, to help fight fascism in Europe.
And talking of medals, Atch, I do believe the VC was mostly awarded to Irish people. Need to check that though..

here you go shI.T.tie, educate yourself a little. I know it's only wiki, but that is about your level.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_in_the_British_Armed_Forces

St Patrick wasn't even Irish, but a Roman slave brought by the English to Ireland:-)

(Sigh)

How Ireland was lost in the 1918 conscription crisis

rte.ie/centuryireland/index.php/articles/how-ireland-was-lost-in-the-1918-conscription-crisis

- Within weeks of the World War One...there were already some who, fearing that conscription was likely, emigrated from Ireland.

- From the summer of 1915 compulsory military service had become a live possibility...it was increasingly clear that volunteers would not provide enough manpower for the war effort.

- 'enforcement of conscription in Ireland is an impossibility'...As a result, [Ireland] was excluded from the Military Service Act...which introduced compulsory military service to the rest of the United Kingdom.


You really need to follow your own advice.

As I already stated (and now backed up with widely available sources) the Irish demonstrated consistently that were neutral and detached from the plight of Poles and Poland all throughout the 20th century and into the 21st.

When the prospect of fighting on traditional Poland lands occurred in WWI the Irish fiercely resisted the call to serve. They did nothing to petition their Government (British or Irish) to assist Poles.

When Poland was subjugated in tandem by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union the Irish declared neutrality and elected successive governments which maintained this stance.

When Poland met every criteria to join the EU the Irish took to the polls in droves to resist and voted no for all the self-serving and xenophobic reasons as aforementioned in the study cited in the first post.

Please tell us about the contribution of your own family to World Wars One and Two - as an Irish person I can discuss my family's contribution, what was yours?


To which lands are your referring?? My family fought in France, Palestine and Egypt. The Irish regiments weren't serving on Polish lands.

Btw, I'm wondering why it's ok for Poland to want independence but Ireland shouldn't

Anyway, it's pointless trying to spread hatred against the Irish, we have a great international reputation and are generally liked wherever we go - for a reason. Figure it out.

could you define 'the Irish'?

I mean are you talking about the government or the people? which people? which government? just saying 'the Irish' in sweeping statements is v simplistic, don't u think? if I had said something as sloppy as that in 'O' level history class my teacher would have pulled me up. O level is the exam you do (did) when you are 16.

..anyway what makes you think that all 'the Irish' think the same way? they are not an homogenous mass ya know. of course you may think that if you are dealing in stereotypes.

Of course Roz, we know that Sh*tty has no idea what he's talking about - totally ignorant of Irish history - but I wonder if he could enlighten us as to why Poland remained "neutral and detached" from the plight of Ireland and the Irish, through nearly 800 years of foreign occupation :)) - especially when you consider that the first history of Poland written in English was by an Irish doctor, physician to Jan Sobieski and the Irish invited the Poles to join them in Napolean's Legion Irlandaise - where is the history of Ireland written by a Pole?? etc etc.

Read this, you big ignorant lump:

Poland in the Irish Nationalist Imagination, 1772-1922
Anti-Colonialism within Europe

link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-43431-5

And apparently now the Poles are the other European country (after, of course, France) spearheading an effort to help rebuild Notre Dame.