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Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2?


FlaglessPole 4 | 669
15 May 2011 #151
do you deny the ongoing white-washing of Stalin's legacy in Russian textbooks???
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
15 May 2011 #153
gee pardon my confusion and allow me to quote the article which in turn quotes the book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945:

The book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will be used as a teaching guide in Russian schools, 55 years after Stalin died.

It is produced by the country's leading school book publishers Prosveshenije, a state-supported company that used to have a monopoly on the supply of classroom texts in the Soviet era.

Editor Alexander Danilove said: "We are not defending Stalin. We are just exploring his personality, explaining his motives and showing what he really achieved."

Alexander Kamensky, of the Russia State University for the Humanities, said the manual was a sign that teaching history in schools has become "an ideological instrument."


as you can see Alexander Kamansky differs from your assessment, no offence but I'll take his word over yours
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
15 May 2011 #154
It is produced by the country's leading school book publishers Prosveshenije, a state-supported company that used to have a monopoly on the supply of classroom texts in the Soviet era.

The book, A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will be used as a teaching guide in Russian schools, 55 years after Stalin died.

To your understanding of modern situation with education i Russia; there is no centralizing supply of teaching books in Russia. Each school is willing to choose its own textbooks for teaching process. The word "recommended" dose not automatically mean that exactly this book will be bought by the particular school.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
15 May 2011 #155
The word "recommended" dose not automatically mean that exactly this book will be bought by the particular school.

yet the initiative is backed by Putin, and let's not kid each other here, what he says goes...
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
15 May 2011 #156
yet the initiative is backed by Putin

Is it Putin himself who said you this?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 May 2011 #157
He was said to have said it but then retracted it later, CK.

Now, those lands were?? ;)
ZIGGYPULASKI
15 May 2011 #158
THANK YOU Flagless Pole for understanding the message I am trying to convey here.It took many years for me to move past my hatred of Germans and Russians.We all know what they did and so do they.Not one innocent life was brought back thru my hatred,but one life was slowly being poisoned...mine.I was taught to hate from my elders sense of powerlessness and victimhood.I can break the cycle,I can teach my sons not to forget,but at the same time not to hate.
Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
13 Jun 2011 #159
On January, 12th
1940 Memorandum of the French ambassador with remarks concerning the breadboard model of the collection of the English-ex-Soviet negotiations prepared by the English party:
"As a result of reading of these documents the impression is made that from the very beginning and till the end of negotiations Russian government persistently aspired to giving to the discussed contract as much as possible universal and effective character.

It is represented that this aspiration of the Soviet government effectively to block all ways for the German aggression irrespectively from that, it is sincere or not, constantly faced the English-French restraint and obvious intention of two governments to limit sphere of Russian intervention … As a result in the planned collection will find the acknowledgement is glad those arguments who - is sincere or not - asserts that the government of the USSR was threw on the party of Germany only owing to fluctuations of England and France, their unwillingness unconditionally to act on the party of Moscow...

English "the Dark blue book" risks to cause thereby the extremely undesirable polemic in present conditions ". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 70-72.] [4]
On January, 18th
1940 Question on the publication "Dark blue book" is discussed at session of the British office. Halifax has spoken against her publication. As a result the office "has agreed that the offered publication" Dark blue book "about negotiations with the Soviet government in the summer of 1939 is represented now inexpedient". [PRO, FO, 371/24395, pp. 87] [4]

On January, 19th
1940 *) the French government under the agreement with the English government has offered the general M.Gamelenu and admiral F. Darlanu to develop the plan "Direct intrusion to caucasus". The Deputy нач. The General staff of the Air Forces of France a gene. Бержеро: "from r thow Near East approach to Baku … will begin Then it will develop in northern direction towards to the armies coming from Scandinavia and Finland to Moscow. [P.Stehlin. Temoignage pour l'Ristoire. Paris, 1964, p.215]

Spring
1940 *) the Plan "MA-6" (Great Britain) and "RIP" (France) about bombardment of Baku, Grozny and Batumi (intended to allocate 90-100 planes of type "Glenn Martin" and "Blenhejm" shown in 9 groups). ["Forses aeriennes francases", decembre 1961, p.842].

On March, 16th
1940 *) Doklad Gamelena about "war Conducting" (about intrusion into the Soviet Transcaucasia) [J.Bardoux. Journal d'un temoin de la troisieme. Paris. 1957. p.203-204]).

On March, 20th
1940 *) Meeting in Aleppo (Syria): by June 1940 building of 20 airdromes for performance of plans "MA-6" and "RIP" will be finished.
On April, 17th
1940 *) Vejgan (a clod. English forces in Syria and Lebanon) Gamelenu: "preparation of air blow will be finished by the end of June - to the beginning of July". [M.Weygand. Memoires. v.3. Paris, 1950, p.71].

Spring-summer
1942 London Polish government refuses to send the armies formed in territory of the USSR, on front and has deduced them to the Near East (it was just during Stalingrad fight).

• 1933 - Refusal of Poland to take part in the offered USSR "East pact". Poland and Germany have suggested the USSR to conclude such pact without France and Czechoslovakia but on such conditions the USSR has refused

• January 1934 - Nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

On March, 7th
1936 Introduction by Germany of armies in the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. In the answer France has declared that has no more obligations to Warsaw. Great Britain has taken of a neutral position. Later Poland also has supported Anschluss Austria.

On October, 2nd
1938 Polish armies occupied Czech Teshin and territory adjoining to him (also [3]). Thus, Poland together with Hitlerite Germany participated in occupation and a partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not unique and not the first similar action of that time.

On April, 14th
1939 British government has suggested Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations to neighboring countries. Obligations to the USSR it was not provided.

1939 Soviet-Japanese conflict on the river the Halhin-goal. During the same time Great Britain concludes the contract with the Japanese government.
June
1939 Confidential negotiations of Great Britain with Germany on sections of spheres of influence. Germany was offered Russia and China.
October
1939 Consideration by committee of chiefs of staffs of Great Britain of a question "About positive and announcement negative sides Great Britain wars of Russia (it even before the Finnish war!).

It is obvious that the facts and the statements, similar the aforesaid, always try to trace foreign policy departments of all countries. And, most likely, appreciably then all it was known to a management of the USSR. Therefore there is nothing surprising in the followed list towards Germany. And to accuse Russia of it probably nevertheless hypocrisy. Or, the modern language, "display of double standards".

If Russia was with the Allies why would they back stab Poland.Was it for revenge or Coal.

On September, 30th, 1938 Warsaw has sent official inquiry to Berlin: whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

It means that Poland was already ready to begin war with the USSR at any moment!

So whom at that point in time to Stalin followed be afraid more — Poland or Germany?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
13 Jun 2011 #160
Believe me, nobody here adore Stalin

I worked in St. Petersburg for two years, '96-'98. Every Sunday on Nevsky Prospect a fairly large group of (mainly elderly) people stood with placards bearing Stalin's image. They clearly adored the man. OK, that was a while ago and several of those acolytes are, no doubt, dead now. Still, I find it extremely hard to believe your assertion that nobody adores Stalin in the Federation.
legend 3 | 664
13 Jun 2011 #161
whether she can count on a benevolent position of Germany if as a result of forthcoming intrusion of the Polish armies into Czechoslovakia there will be a confrontation between Poland and the USSR?

Again did Poland follow through on these actions? No.
Poland only attacked her weaker members (just like Germany and Russia).

Still, I find it extremely hard to believe your assertion that nobody adores Stalin in the Federation.

Im sure there is some that do, some that dont.
Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
13 Jun 2011 #162
Poland only attacked her weaker members (just like Germany and Russia).

Bigger fish eat smaller fish... i 100% agree

Again did Poland follow through on these actions? No.

They done something before and if that happened ones it could happen again:

On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

In October, 1920 the Polish armies have grasped Vilno and Vilensky area at Lithuania, inconsiderately having broken the Suvalksky pact.

P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....
Marek11111 9 | 816
14 Jun 2011 #163
Pro_Svet_Spb:
P.S. I like all people, Russia and Poland should stay together with other eastern countries, but they let Americans to rule them....

the problem is governments all people want peace and job so they can raise their family but the governments are evil. I like the idea about Poland developing friendship with Slavic nations not with the Anglo-Saxon evil bastards.
Zman
14 Jun 2011 #164
On April, 25th, 1920 — Poland without declaration of war has attacked Russia which is bleeding profusely in civil war, and under the Riga contract has appropriated a part of the Ukrainian and Belorussian earths.

As a matter of fact, polish forces never attacked Russia and never even reached it during the war of 1920. They were only present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.
1jola 14 | 1,879
14 Jun 2011 #165
On January, 12th

You got a source link for this short quote?
Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41
15 Jun 2011 #166
1jola

Academician A.M.Samsonov. The Second World War. М: the Science. 1990. 638 with.
D.M.proektor. Fascism: an aggression and destruction way. М: the Science. 1989. 584 with.
Z.Aldeber, J.Bender, I.Grusha, etc. History of Europe. 1996. 383 with. (Russian lane Histore de l'Europe, Hachette. 1992)
M.Pankratov. The English-ex-Soviet negotiations of 1939//the International life, 1989, № 8, with. 28-39.
Round the non-aggression pact (documents on the Soviet-German relations of 1939)//the International life, 1989, № 9, with. 90-123

The British ambassador in Finland: "Most likely, the winner will be not Hitler, and Stalin (in the future European war - a comment of recentury) and consequently he represents the greatest danger ... As there is a question how to cause a damage to Soviet Union, I suggest to put a maximum of efforts to reaching the consent with Japan which sudden attack will be pushed by her inveterate enmity to the Bolshevism". [The Origins of the Second World War. London-N.Y. 1971, p.270]

As a matter of fact, polish forces never attacked Russia and never even reached it during the war of 1920.

On January, 31st, 1919 ССРБ left structure of RSFSR, and her independence officially recognized the government of the Soviet Russia.

On February, 2nd, 1919 in Minsk I Vsebelorussky congress of Councils of workers, soldier's and Red Army the deputies, accepted Constitution ССРB has gathered on February, 3rd.

On February, 27th, 1919 ССРB has united from the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic in the Litovsko-Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic (abbr. Litbel), existed till August, 1919. Thus the earths of the east of Belarus were a part of RSFSR.

In the Soviet and modern Belorussian historiography on January, 1st 1919 it is considered date of first declaration BSSR.

The Polish occupation

In February, 1919 the Polish armies have intruded on territory of Belarus. On August, 8th the Polish armies have occupied Minsk which has been beaten off by Red Army only in July of next year [19].

By results of the Riga peace treaty of 1921 to Poland the territories of the Western Belarus which are to the east from Linii Kerzona on which the Belorussian population prevailed departed.

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/История_Белоруссии

present in Belarus and Ukraine and that was just right.

Who said that was right, people who lived there?

Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Jun 2011 #167
The AK never attacked the Soviet Union? Really?? ;) ;)
sascha 1 | 826
16 Jun 2011 #168
How about americans missiles for 200 millions of euro in Poland against who?

good question?

I like the idea about Poland developing friendship with Slavic nations not with the Anglo-Saxon evil bastards.

comes naturally. :)

The AK never attacked the Soviet Union? Really?? ;) ;)

never heard about that either. ;)))
Wroclaw Boy
4 Aug 2011 #169
BRATWURST BOY: Don't sweat it, Poland was best in everything...they should have won! Mean enemies wouldn't let it! ;)

Ohh the German has spoken.
Elk37
2 Oct 2013 #170
Polish forces were begining to slow germans down,
germans needed russian help to finnish Poland!
TheOther 5 | 3,711
2 Oct 2013 #171
Polish forces were begining to slow germans down...

Especially the Polish cavalry... :)

imh.org/index.php/legacy-of-the-horse-full-story/1900-the-horse-in-transition/world-war-ii-cavalrys-final-hour

Is that you again, Ironside?
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
3 Oct 2013 #172
Especially the Polish cavalry... :)

I wouldn't smile too much mate. There could be a Polish grandfather or grand-uncle of yours who was actually an Uhlan and who could have been responsible for stemming the tide at Kutno.

Or perhaps the smiley is because a German ancestor of yours was in the vanguard of the German advance and perhaps fought an Uhlan?

In any event, it must be difficult for you having the two different 'gene pools'. Given your comments, it seems the 'German' prevails, though the 'Polish' resides in the deeper reaches, which you try to exorcise completely by coming here and making the strange comments you sometimes do (with the smiley faces to make it seem tongue in cheek). Am I far from the mark?
TheOther 5 | 3,711
3 Oct 2013 #173
Am I far from the mark?

Very, and I don't understand why you feel compelled to raise from the grave every few months and leave comments like the above. I've told you before that I don't care about ethnicity, and my heritage is only important to me when talking about genealogy. That's it. Don't try to fit me or others into a stereotype based on ethnicity like many right-wing douchebags on PF do. You're better than that, even though we don't agree very often.

Elk37 is the third incarnation of Ironside in one (?) week, and even though he's banned AFAIK, he's using guest accounts to troll. If you find that acceptable, that's up to you. I don't. Especially not, when he's spouting nonsense in his posts.
pasta
3 Oct 2013 #174
The Soviet Union had an alliance with Czechoslovakia, which Poland and Hungary partitioned. Incidentally, last week was the 75th anniversary of the Munich Agreement and almost no European and Western papers even mentioned it.
Marek11111 9 | 816
4 Oct 2013 #175
Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2?
to rape polish nation, to get more labor power to gulags, to spread the Jewish communism, to kill people.
pierogi2000 4 | 229
5 Oct 2013 #176
I remember reading that Churchill considered the "Miracle of Vistula" one of the 20 most important events of the century. But to your point I would confidently state 5% or less of the USA population is aware of this event or even know Poland has ever defeated Russia in a War.

Russia had massive defence lines and supply depos near its border with Poland.

Interesting point

they had returned the favour many times already, before 1939. Besides Poland fought one on one not 2 or 3 against 1

It was technically 4 vs 1

Invasion of Poland

Germany, Russia, Slovakia & Prussia

Great post.

I am not patronizing anyone here,I am asking a simple question which it appears, cannot be answered.When are you Eastern Europeans going to step out of the shadow of 1939?

"Elder generations"

Poland was under Communist dominance only 24 years ago. My parents would not have immigrated with my sister & I, if this were not the case. The overwhelming majority of Poles on the globe were/are directly effected by WW2. Atleast 50+ years til this changes.
AL6
13 Feb 2014 #177
What came first the Mc-or-Arthur.60% of allies did not kill.
Crnogorac3 2 | 328
27 Jan 2016 #178
Merged: Russia is an aggressor again?!

youtube.com/watch?v=cHfBIO-alTI


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