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Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2?


legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #61
@BB

From the allies yes the Polish pilots were one of the best if not the best. Poland had one of the best fighter training schools in europe (I forget the name). Consider the fact that Germans had better planes and more planes on invasion day. Yet Poland with her planes managed to have close to 1:1 ratio in planes downed.

Now fast forward to the Battle of Britain. Poland used better technology of the Brits and we raped the Luftwaffe in many cases.

As far as technology is concerned I am strickly speaking of the late 1930s.
Much of Polands equipment was bought and upgraded from other countries thats why there is little mention of it.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #62
Yeah....sure...you were better than everybody! Suuuure! You kicked mighty ass! ;)

Best soldiers
Best commanders
Best weaponry
Best tech
Best pilots
Best fighting spirit

...did I miss something? :)
Poland rocked in WWII ;)
legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #63
They never used Pz1 in the front.Panzer 3 had no match till the appearance of Sherman.Only the heavy French Renault had some equal aspects but was foolishly deployed.On the other hand the Soviets possessed wuite capable tanks like the T-34 which was actually superior to any German tank in 1942.

again I am talking about Sept 1939 only. the germans did not have high number of pzIIIs in the invasion.
their tanks were clunkers like the polish tanks as well. tigers and other high quality german tanks did not participate in the beginning.
southern 75 | 7,096
12 May 2011 #64
Only CR had some serious tanks in the period of German attack the Skoda which were later used by Germans in front against Poland.Actually most polish successes were against these skoda tanks.
gumishu 11 | 5,632
12 May 2011 #65
The quality of their commanders is a lie also. The Lightning war wasnt that smart (assuming you believe in it... its just common sense). The soldiers training was about the same as other European soldiers.

I think they had on average better commanders - the 1939 campaign has shown many deficiencies of Polish commandership - especially on higher levels - the higher the level the worse it looked -
legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #66
Yeah....sure...you were better than everybody! Suuuure! You kicked mighty ass! ;)

No offense but you are starting to turn out to be an uneducated person.
No one said Poland is the best here and no one said were better than everybody.
We got our asses kicked because of number 1 reason numbers.

PS. Enjoy your German pride because you only beat smaller European nations but when it came to giants you lost :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #67
No offense but you are starting to turn out to be an uneducated person.

WHY???

I'm just repeating your opinion! If that looks ridiculous....don't blame me! :)

PS. Enjoy your German pride because you only beat smaller European nations but when it came to giants you lost :)

Problem was we fighted all at the same time...GB/France declared a world war because of you, if they hadn't done that you would speak German by now! (And the other half Russian probably).

Think about that when you whine and moan about GB or France again...
southern 75 | 7,096
12 May 2011 #68
Germans had way better telecommunications in tanks(Soviets did not even have radiofrequencies) and much better tactics.Germans had also better assault rifles and machine guns.
legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #69
I'm just repeating your opinion! If that looks ridiculous....don't blame me! :)

I clearly stated no one including myself thinks Poland was better than anyone else.
If English isnt your first language I cant help it.
Palivec - | 380
12 May 2011 #70
Yeah, electric boats, air-independent propulsion, flying wings, turbojet bombers and fighters, rocket-powered fighters, sweep wings, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, supersonic surface-to-air missiles, man-portable air-defense systems, short-range ballistic missiles, assault rifles... what a myth!!!

Oh, I forgot the acoustic torpedo... what a long list of mediocrity... :D
gumishu 11 | 5,632
12 May 2011 #71
Much of Polands equipment was bought and upgraded from other countries thats why there is little mention of it.

you are completely wrong here - the percantage of foreign made planes in Polish air force in 1939 was less than 10 per cent definitely (if not verging on non-existent) -
legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #72
you are speaking only of Air Force. I am speaking of ground, air, and water in general.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_37_mm

Imported from Sweden slightly upgraded to meet Polish standards.
gumishu 11 | 5,632
12 May 2011 #73
They never used Pz1 in the front.

completely wrong here - Pz I's formed the bulk of the German armored force in Septebmer 1939
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #74
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_(1939)#Opposing_forces
legend 3 | 664
12 May 2011 #75
Germany had a substantial numerical advantage over Poland and had developed a significant military prior to the conflict. en.wikipedia.org

this and the rest of the phrase about the Germans states exactly what I have said.
numbers were the number 1 reason Germany beat Poland.
and number 2 was planes.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #76
this and the rest of the phrase about the Germans states exactly what I have said.

I don't think so...

Between 1936 and 1939, Poland invested heavily in the Central Industrial Region. Preparations for a defensive war with Germany were ongoing for many years, but most plans assumed fighting would not begin before 1942. To raise funds for industrial development, Poland sold much of the modern equipment it produced.

The Polish Army had approximately a million soldiers, but less than ½ of them were mobilized by 1 September....

The Polish Air Force (Lotnictwo Wojskowe) was at a severe disadvantage against the German Luftwaffe, although it was not destroyed on the ground early on, as is commonly believed.

So, the polish army was badly led and badly equipped.
Just a dose of reality!

numbers were the number 1 reason Germany beat Poland.
and number 2 was planes.

If numbers were your main concern Poland should have given in to negotiations with Germany
(whose numbers didn't came out of nowhere) to avoid any war...but Poles of that time liked to talk big as in "in one week in Berlin".
Marek11111 9 | 816
12 May 2011 #77
Yes if Poland join Germans in ww2 we all would be speaking German now.
There was a bigger plan in works and Poland was used then sacrificed for bigger agenda.

From Pike's Letter to Mazzini

""The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm." 3

Thread is wandering...
Harry
12 May 2011 #78
If numbers were your main concern Poland should have given in to negotiations with Germany (whose numbers didn't came out of nowhere) to avoid any war...

It's not as if Germany was even making particularly unreasonable demands (the return of a 95% German city and an extraterritorial corridor across land which cut Germany in two).

but Poles of that time liked to talk big as in "in one week in Berlin".

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."
Ironside 50 | 10,910
12 May 2011 #79
and badly equipped.

Comparatively, German economy was much better.
Budged of antebellum Poland was a few times smaller than German budged. Additionally, Poles were refused a credit to develop their industry while German were recipient of substantial financial aid - mostly from the Wall Street bankers.

Think is BB, German had crucial advantage in planes 2000 as opposition to 600 plus, and tanks, no matter PzI or other.
As for better lead, well Poland was encircled by German forces even before the war started, in that situation only moron would lose.
I'm not saying that German Army was bad in the military sense of the word.
Plus the Red Army was your ally.
Hope it does sink in this time.

Bratwurst Boy:
If numbers were your main concern Poland should have given in to negotiations with Germany (whose numbers didn't came out of nowhere) to avoid any war

Yeah she should.

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."

Provide some source other than that rag or shut up!

but Poles of that time liked to talk big as in "in one week in Berlin".

Really? So did Germans and what more they acted on it.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 May 2011 #80
Most people think of the Wehrmacht at the time as being some steel and diesel killing machine... People seem to forget that it was literally horsepower, not diesel engines, that moved the army.

The reason why Wehrmacht was as good as it was was because of modern training and awesome commanders, thats pretty much it.

Yeah, electric boats

Everyone had them.

air-independent propulsion

Everyone had it.

turbojet bombers and fighters, rocket-powered fighters

Everyone had the technology, it just was not economic enough to build them, not even for the Germans, see fuel consumption, basically all inventions you listed either existed as counterparts or had been in design stage and not produced for economic reasons.

Assault rifles have been designed and even built decades before WW2, Germans just started mass producing one, they did not invent nor were they the first to field one (Russians or French were).

Or...as the American said to the Soviets after the moon landing: "Our Germans are better than your Germans!"

Silly chauvinist arguments, most german inventions are simply applications of inventions by other nations, paperclip was done for the same reason why Germany drains Polands scientists today, you can never have too few brainiacs, Germany loved to field weirdo projects but thats what they were, other countries had the technology but did not waste resources.

For the cost of one ME262 you could build four mustang fighters and they used less fuel in one mission than that plane.

Stop masturbating about how awesome the german technology was, much of what they had was copied or based on other peoples work.

So, the polish army was badly led and badly equipped.
Just a dose of reality!

However the technology level was the same, its the money that Poland was short on.
Harry
12 May 2011 #81
Provide some source other than that rag or shut up!

Can't attack the facts so instead you attack the messenger. How very Polish of you.

Really? So did Germans and what more they acted on it.

I can't recall ever hearing the German army boasting about being in Berlin in one week. And I also can't recall even a single German politician saying "Germany wants war with Poland, and Poland may not be able to avoid it even if she wants to."
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #82
Everyone had them.

Then why "Operation Paperclip" ;)

Stop masturbating about how awesome the German technology was

You are just jealous! I understand that... :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_technology_during_World_War_II
Palivec - | 380
12 May 2011 #83
Everyone had them.

No, electric submarines which could operate entirely submerged were a German invention.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_XXI_submarine

Everyone had it.

No, submarines with air-independent propulsion were built by other countries only in the 50s.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-independent_propulsion

Everyone had the technology, it just was not economic enough to build them, not even for the Germans, see fuel consumption, basically all inventions you listed either existed as counterparts or had been in design stage and not produced for economic reasons.

All these technologies were first built by Germany, and many post-war designs of the Soviet Union and the USA are based on German designs. You have to wonder why they didn't use their own design, since they, according to you, all already had the technology.

Assault rifles have been designed and even built decades before WW2, Germans just started mass producing one, they did not invent nor were they the first to field one (Russians or French were).

Since you know so much, please add your knoweledge to this article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmgewehr_44
LOL, the name "assualt rifle" is even based on the German word Sturmgewehr, and the AK-47 is based on this German design... :D
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 May 2011 #84
You are just jealeous! I understand that... :)

Not really, any idiot can edit wikipedia and there's even more german chauvinists today than there were german nazis 65 years ago, the point is you and people like you make it all up just like the case with PoznaƄ, Germans can't admit they're not superior or even slightly ahead:)

All these technologies were first built by Germany,

Thats rubbish mate, the problem with you is that you have no knowledge and base your posts on opinions.

The first assault rifle for example is the avtomat fiodorowa wz 16 which in turn was a perfected version of the same assault rifle developed in 1912.

pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Fedorov_avtomat.jpg&filetimestamp=20100130151436 the first jet plane was built in 1910 by Henry Coanda.

There's more to it but i dont really feel like educating a pretentional moron, none of the technologies you listed were developed by Germans, none.

The reason why Germans applied new technologies were because they were getting their arse kicked and got desperate, the reason their enemies did not apply same technologies was because they didnt need to/couldnt afford to (as with Poland) but they all had the same technologies.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmgewehr_44
LOL, the name "assualt rifle" is even based on the German word Sturmgewehr, and the AK-47 is based on this German design... :D

Assault rifle and automatic carbine are interchangable and Stg44 is actually a late comer, the automatic guns have been messed with for a very long time (30 years) by various countries, they were however insanely expensive to build (the cost of a single stg44 equaled 12 MP44s) so most countries did not bother with them untill the manufacturing technologies became affordable, Germany did because again it was desperate.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #85
Not really, any idiot can edit wikipedia

Nun ja...I told you before, why don't you edit wiki with your facts then, if that's so easy?

And we are so superior! Weaponry "Made in Germany" is best now as it was 70 years back...we have a tradition to uphold! ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 May 2011 #86
No its not, US weapons are still the best, you just offer the economy class in weaponry today, good quality for good price but if you want great quality US is the only place to get it, more money = better tech.

The whole idea of "Germany was so superior" is propagated by US, France and UK because quite frankly their armies were p*ssies.

When Russians faced massive dug in german formations they ran over them in a week disregarding losses, when the Allies landed in Normandy they pranced around like fags for a month because their soldiers were cowards and their commanders inept.

When Poles fought at Bzura and polish units faced up to 70% casulities they kept going, when Russians or Germans faced 70% casualities they kept going, when Brits or US army faced 30% casualities they instantly recalled the operation and screamed they were getting massacred.

So of course they want the world to know how awesome Germany was, how Poland was overrun in 10 minutes or how Russia was really saved by the five sacks of corn they sent it and would lose otherwise , it makes the fact that France rolled over like a coward and US and UK couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper bag hurt less.
Monia
12 May 2011 #87
Poland rocked in WWII ;)

Allied forces ( with our help ) rocked , that`s why Germany lost it :)

Provide some source other than that rag or shut up!

Don`t discuss with this man coz it is unworthy and pure waste of your time. He has got the knowledge of history facts which no one is aware of .

Maybe onbe day he will write a book titled " My own history " or even better "WWII - history rewritten" .
z_darius 14 | 3,968
12 May 2011 #88
And we are so superior! Weaponry "Made in Germany" is best now as it was 70 years back...we have a tradition to uphold! ;)

That is not as clearcut as it may seem.

Soviet AK47 is still the most reliable banger even though the MP40 machine guns were cute. Kosovo's terrorists liked them too in late 1990's. They must have held a supply from WW2 times.

I heard that during WW2 some Soviet tanks were actually superior to some German tanks, especially the Tiger monster that would be unreliable and just impractical on a battle field. Germans also ran like cattle when Soviets shot their Katyusha artillery.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
12 May 2011 #89
The whole idea of "Germany was so superior" is propagated by US, France and UK because quite frankly their armies were p*ssies.

So of course they want the world to know how awesome Germany was,

Show 'em! ;)
Harry
12 May 2011 #90
The whole idea of "Germany was so superior" is propagated by US, France and UK because quite frankly their armies were p*ssies.

Two of those three armies managed campaign and war victories over the Germans while simultaneously fighting on a second front. How did Poland's army do?

Don`t discuss with this man coz it is unworthy and pure waste of your time.

Oh look: my favourite liar is back! What gems for us do you have today.

He has got the knowledge of history facts which no one is aware of .

Well, no one who has not read a history book, which explains why the facts of history are unknown to you.

Maybe onbe day he will write a book titled " My own history " or even better "WWII - history rewritten" .

There's no need for that to be done, dear lady: the truth about WWII is very known and written about. The lies about things from timetables for invasions in 1939 to invitations to parades in 1946 have already been dealt with and will continue to be dealt with each time your ilk tell such tall tales. Talking of tall, I'm still waiting for you to reply to my pointing out your lies about Warsaw skyscrapers, do feel free to pop into that thread and make more things up!


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