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WHAT IS POLAND? (Poem)


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2015 #1
Daniel Krman (1663-1740), a Slovak Lutheran pastor, writer and poet who chronicled his travels to neighbouring lands, cited this bit of verse about Poland:

"Clarum regnum Polonorum
est coelum nobilorum,
paradisus Judeorum,
purgatorium plebeiorum
et infernus rusticorum."

For the benefit of those who have forgotten their schoolday Latin:

"The glorious kingdom of the Poles
is a nobleman's heaven
a Jew's paradise
a plebeian's purgatory
and a peasant's hell."
jon357 67 | 16,843
14 May 2015 #2
A nice poem, Pol3.

You won't like this quote as much, however in context there's some sense in it. It's from the late Quentin Crisp, who between the 30s and the 50s lived with Poles:

Poland isn't a country, but a disturbed state of mind

Roger5 1 | 1,458
14 May 2015 #3
It must have been with very easy-going Poles.

a peasant's hell

Unless they have KRUS.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,262
14 May 2015 #4
and a peasant's hell."

This is very true. The economic situation of the peasants in Poland had been deteriorating ever since the times of Casmir the Great. There existed compex economic and political reasons for that.

Can you name his other works, Polonius? I am particularly interested if he travelled to Silesia, in his time still part of the Kingdom of Bohemia under Austrian rule since the Prussians conquered Silesia in 1741.
R.U.R.
3 Sep 2015 #5
Jon235 : A nice poem, Pol3.

I think it sounds better iths way :

"The glorious kingdom of the Poles
is a nobleman's heaven
a Jew's hell
a plebeian's purgatory
and a peasant's paradise."

Yes, jon357, really a nice poem !!!
jon357 67 | 16,843
3 Sep 2015 #6
Yes. Though I prefer the more accurate translation rather than your made up version.
R.U.R.
3 Sep 2015 #7
I see, but remakes and rewritings can also be masterpieces to be enjoyed very much, right ?

Ziemowit : The economic situation of the peasants in Poland had been deteriorating ever since the times of Casmir the Great.

Strangley enough that this deterioration of the peasants and the influx of the Jews in Poland took place almost simultaneously at the times of Casmir the Great (Great ?).
jon357 67 | 16,843
3 Sep 2015 #8
I see, but remakes and rewritings can also be masterpieces to be enjoyed very much, right ?

Only if they actually are a masterpiece. That version just doesn't add anything or have any interesting qualities.

am particularly interested if he travelled to Silesia, in his time still part of the Kingdom of Bohemia under Austrian rule since the Prussians conquered Silesia in 1741.

I think he did; he certainly travelled. There's an interesting biography of him though I no longer have a copy.
R.U.R.
3 Sep 2015 #9
That version just doesn't add anything or have any interesting qualities.

You are wrong here, unlike you, the polish peasant will find simething interesting there but you are not a polish peasant .
jon357 67 | 16,843
3 Sep 2015 #10
Or any other sort, thanks. Though you are trying to go off topic, wonder how familiar you are with Krman's writing. By the way, he wasn't a 'polish (sic) peasant' either.

What do you think about his other works?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,262
3 Sep 2015 #11
Casmir III was gefinitely a 'great' king. In particular, his activity in making and codyfing the law was outstanding. Much of this laid foundations for law and justice (who knows, he might have even laid foundations for PiS (Law and Justice party) :-) for the coming centuries until the end of the First Republic in 1795.

I was a bit wrong in my assesment of the deteriration in economic state of the Polish peasant. This deterioration began much later in fact, but it is true that the last monarch of the Piast dynasty was called "king of peasants" (król chłopów) in the popular tradition.

Between 1663-1740 when Daniel Krman lived Poland could possibly be called "peasant's hell", though the further east their situation was worse.
jon357 67 | 16,843
3 Sep 2015 #12
Can't seem to find it in English -- only Slovak, Swedish and Hungarian

Józef Magnuszewski and Jerzy Sliziński both wrote about him, however this predates the online world.

On one of his journeys he sailed the Danube and wrote about this.

Be careful though, there were two of them, father and son, both men of letters, both with a Poland connection.


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