Norman Davies - the Brit who loves Poland and becomes one of Us

well... as long as he doesnt make a mess...

Back on topic
I read White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War. Gave me a better understanding of my dads rantings :) about his father's exploits in this war. The swashbuckling pride of the Polish Cavalry officer..

An incoded message was found in the Torah. The message said Jesus is the Messiah. They ran super computers for 2 weeks through the Torah and found 300 incoded messages. For a human to write a story within a story (One incoded message) The probability was 1 in 3 trillion that a human could write 1 incoded message. Some of the incodes messages had 200 spaces between letters, Some complete incoded messages had 35 spaces between letters. The incoded messages began telling stories about disciples, Hitler, future events, etc.

Dear Giles(stupid wise man), tell us the answer of the secret codes of the Torah.
and keep up your religious ritual of kissing a rats ass every morning.

What has religion to do with Norman Davies? :( There's a more appropriate place to discuss this issues on Polishforums.com.

you will find encoded messages where ever you look for them... you will even find encoded messages spread between different books written hundreds of years apart...

Thank you that man!

Before you go spouting the whole bible code BS Riff. Please remember that a man who was less than impressed with the bible codes, (i forget his name sadly) attempted the same thing using equidistant letter sequencing with Moby Dick and shock horror, found a code about Martin Luther King's assasination, also the same Rabin message that appeared in the bible too.

Btw, for those still skeptical amongst us, they also found a prediction of 9/11 in the complete works of Vanilla Ice.

Robert Van Winkel, a true prophet of our time, peace be upon him. :)

If there was a problem yo I'll solve it, check out the hook while DJ revolves it.

The man that found the first bible code in the Torah was a Rabbi. He found the code "Jesus is the Messiah". He then still did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. I would like to know what he thinks now since they have found 300. The guy that wrote the book the (Signiture of God)says that every person on earths name and destiny is coded within the Torah. I guess if you want to spend some money you can find your code. Finding a three word code in Moby Dick is a real reach to try to disprove anything. 300 codes, coded differently, intricate happenings of Aushwitz and precise dates of wwII. Get real player. the probability of all these stories, written within in a bible, by a human is like 300 trillion to one. Happening by chance about 900 trillon to one. According to you the codes just made themselves. There has never been any book with 300 intricate codes within, let alone every person on earths code. Everyone is a liar, right bogus profile man.


Hey, the man that debates but has no position. Since you do not have any real position You will be called skeptic. Speaking of prophets. When reading the old testamant how did Isaiah(might be David) know that Judas got 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus.

By the way, if your not impressed with the bible codes, That doesn't impress me.

wasnt there a rip van winlke... or was that riff van tinkle... whatever...


Bom-ba-clat shoot dep pon fire mon

extra large bo' cha hueg

peace out, bubba... aka buildafatone...

Wow...perhaps there IS something to this codes lark after all. :) And yes, I was tempted...sorry guided to use the A not the I :)

HA! I'm doing a History Project on the Rise of Warsaw in 1944, and my main resource is a book by Norman Davies!

Your thick, There are coded messages in the Torah with exactly 215 words or spaces between each word, and the coded messages are paragraphs. Find out what a coded message is before you debate. My, you can really debate about a topic without knowing anything about that topic

Before, you failed to mention the hundreds of books they computer scanned and never found one code in any of them. By the way, did you find out how the prophets in the old testament knew details of what was going to happen in the new testament.

I think Henny Youngman is a little funnier than you. For some reason I think your only a big shot over the internet,

Probably you're right. :) (Notice the spelling Riff it's a contraction of you and are. Just a little tip :) ) There is after all no way I could compete with such a mental giant as yourself.

Still, here in my own little backward world, it's oh so very boring. :(
No little green men come to visit me, god doesn't want to put me in a headlock and tell me how much he loves me and no, i've never sat down and really tried to get excited about finding predictions about the lottery numbers in a very old book.

Oh, how I wish I was you, will you be my bff. purrrleeeease. :)

Heugel: Try tiddilywinks you may be able to get excited over that. Try not to ask questions if you can't handle the true answer. Sorry,never saw a green man. God must like to visit people who are stupid and can't spell. Just because I had a surprise visit from God does not make me smarter or better than anyone else. Keep telling yourself, All the prophets are liars, God can't visit anyone, God can't visit anyone. Tell me how it works out for you.

yes she has grate books, Guag is very interesting one ...

as to Norman Davies ... he writtes about our histry in neutral way and writtes the truth ... we can say about British people a lot of things but they look on Poland in neutral way and when they know all (!!!) facts they dont change them just because they prefere one nation than other ... (esp according our region)

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW POLISH HISTORY READ DAVIES BOOKS.

get your omnipotent buddy to help out then....
what happened to the Norman Davis thread?
Didnt he try to get to the USSR as a slightly deluded student leftie,get turned down for an entry visa and ended up stuck in Poland,a country he obviously came to love. Just finished reading his White Eagle Red Star (or the other way round..) good little book on the Polish /Sov war.

He hardly may be regarded as a historian, all his books just a biased profanation of the historic events. I can say it from my, Russian point of view.


What !!! Neutral way? All his books full of rusofobic fantasies and thus, of stupid adoration of polish expirience...

Could you quote some examples?

He does get a bit simplistic and one sided when it comes to Russo-Polish relations, neutrality on this is not his strong point,maybe he is just trying to "out Pole the Poles" as many immigrents do in the new country they love.

why do you think so ? Maybe some examples ?

well ,without wanting to shake the tree too much,its not so much in the specifics as in the general tone,you can almost here the menacing music when "russia" appears in his later books. All this is an opinion,and one from someone as "neutral " as ole Norm himself...

I have just noticed that British hisoricians who know most of details about Polish -Russian relationship shares Davies point of view ... and honestly his books in comparison to some books written by Poles are very tolerant for Russia ...

Thats my point of view

Well thats where you hold the advantage over me Lukasz,not many books written by Poles on the subject get translated into english so I cant compare,but ,like most "popular" historians,his personal opinion sneaks through in subtle ways. Im not saying I dont agree with his opinions only he is far more obviously a "friend" of Poland than a neutral observer.

What is problem in differences between points of view of Poland and our neighbours.

We were under occupation and it was realy hard to show our history in way we see it, lat time it changes, but the fact is that better known is Russian or German point of view.

Examples

Poles charging tanks using sobers

Polish dead camps (totaly extrem)

our intervention in Russia in XVII century (the fact is that Russian nobels asked for the same laws as Poles and Lithuenias had and it was only one event in Russian history when they had a chance for less authorative system ... )

I disagree. I heard Davies speak a few times in a manner that some Poles might not necessarily appreciate. For instance Davies thinks that some Polish historians (and many Poles in general) over-romanticize Poland and Polish history along with various events it lead to, or resulted from. (btw. I agree with him)

Is there really a lot of good to say about Soviet policies toward Poland between 1919 and now? If things appear one side in his books, could that be that he is actually telling the truth as closely as it is possible? Remember, for a big chunk of that period we're talking about Stalin, then Khruschev and their followers - not much nicer fellas.

On the level I belive you can reach on a forum( I prefer debating history in person,more give and take involved) I would have to agree with your last paragraph darius,lenin,stalin,nikita et al dont engender many sympathetic feelings in anyone other than the odd mad russian or cambridge graduate.

As too his coments (which,from what Ive experianced in life and definatly on this forum)that some Polish historians and Poles in the street(lamp Poles? ;) ) over romantises ,I would agree but add thats not just a Polish trait:)

I was being very polite towards the fore mentioned personalities when I wrote that. To be more truthful, mine and my family's experience, as well as the experience of millions of other Poles don't much room for a separation of Russian approach towards Poland from that which lead Nazi Germany to exterminating so many Poles. To many Poles (especially those who are old enough to remember) Russia ~ Nazi Germany

Russia is to be feared. At least in the foreseeable future, so I think the only correct policy Poland can have towards the bear is one suggested by a not so nice Polish saying: don't stir **** so it won't stink. (jak gówna nie ruszać to nie śmierdzi)

thanks for the phrase,Im now dying to use it :)
BTW,on a tangenet,and reducing things to Pop Culture. Me and my British mates,as kids,always saw the baddies in Star Wars as the "Space Nazis" since getting to know many more Polish people Ive found they tend to see them as the "Space Commintern" :)

I love the Tie Fighter Pilot on a mobility scooter,nice touch :) Bad guys have all the fun ;)

"History of Europe"...I do not know how it sounds originally, but in russian translation it sounds exactly so.