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Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland?


Marek11111 9 | 816
1 Apr 2010 #91
There is only one reason for Jews to be anti polish
It’s a shakedown to get money from Poland for what the Germans did to them during ww2
After Poland who will get shakedown next?
You got to love the extortion tactics
OP Wroclaw Boy
1 Apr 2010 #92
MareGaea: The most common explanations of Hitler's hatred towards Jews before WW1 are:

Thats a good post MG and the kind of thing i was looking for.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
1 Apr 2010 #93
Ironside: If you keep on coming back with this lie, I cannot take you seriously....

Was it the fault of the Jews that this little boy made up a story that he was kidnapped by Jews and that he "saw them drink the blood of christian babies"? Isn't it true that before he died, I believe it was in the 90's, this boy admitted that it was all a made up story, whispered in his ear by his dad? Wasn't it true that this fals accusation lead to the hysteria that lead to the killing of dozens of Jewish citizens of the town of Kielce? Isn't it true that these very same Jewish civilians just had come back to the place where they were born and raised? Isn't it true that crazed mobsters searched passing trains for Jews and killed them when they found them? Isn't it true that this pogrom was instigited, deliberated and executed by Poles? And wasn't it true that some of the ringleaders of this mob were sentenced to death by the Polish government? You tell me, how could this NOT be a Polish mistake, ironside? What did the Jews exactly do to provoke their killing? What was the Jewish part in this, except being the victim? What exactly is a lie in all this, ironside? Pls stop being so obnoxious, otherwise I will have to stop to take YOU serious.

vetala: This guy is actually saying that nearly all of 300.000 Holocaust survivors in Poland were murdered! Defensiveness is a natural reaction to such ridiculous accusations.

Indeed, incidents like the Kielce pogrom were just what they were: incidents, be it very unfortunately timed incidents. Usually everything comes down to timing and starting a pogrom against the remaining survivors of the biggest mass murder of all times, just ended a mere year before, is clumsy, to put it pleonastically. It did send a ripple through Europe and I think it is co-responsible for the birth of the idea in America and Israël that the Poles might just be co-responsible for the Holocaust, even though they weren't. Like I said in a previous post, whinging and whining does no good to the Polish cause, so I think they should simply stop it, remember what has happened, but stop nagging about it; it will create quite some goodwill for them in Europe and outside of Europe. But that's just my opinion.

Don't know the exact numbers, but I know for sure that it weren't 300.000 that were killed. The numbers you mentioned are more accurate.

>^..^<

M-G (rushes off to the off-licence as a Good Friday without alcohol is not a good friday indeed - especially not in Dublin town)
mulsie 2 | 13
1 Apr 2010 #94
JEWIetala:
but don't make it sound as if it was a miracle for a Jew to survive in post-war Poland.
The kielce pogram has gained significant media coverage in the UK/Ireland. this reference to the program below says enough about being a miracle to survive in post WWII Poland...your statistics from 300000 to several thousand current Jewish residents speaks louder than words.. could it be called ethnic cleansing???

Sporadic public anti-Jewish disturbances or riots were enticed by spread of false blood libel accusations against Jews in a dozen Polish towns - Krakow, Kielce, Bytom, Bialystok, Bielawa, Czestochowa, Legnica, Otwock, Rzeszów, Sosnowiec, Szczecin, Tarnow. The Kraków pogrom of August 11, 1945, was the first anti-Jewish riot in postwar Poland. Rumours of alleged attempt by Jewish woman to kidnap and murder Polish child and alleged discovery of thirteen or even eighty corpses of Christian children that supposedly had been found in Kupa Synagogue served as a pretext to start the pogrom. During the riot, Jews were attacked in Kazimierz

nomaderol 5 | 726
1 Apr 2010 #95
you are confusing terms and times. after WWII, there was no more socialism/communism at all.. Soviets were under the control of Russian nationalist imperialistic deep state after 1940s. So, Poland never lived socialism really.

All will agree about that socialism was theorized by intellectual and rich Jews and then, you will say socialism/communism were giving damage to jews. Illogic. Jews were just a minority that had been under target of the Church for centuries and then also used by Russian deep state that was targetting to become a superpower, nothing else. Anti-Jew thing wasn't born in this century.

ps: this socialism, improved version, is the only chance for poland and world now and your wearing it down gives damages to nobody, but, ordinary poor folks like yourselves. (any real suggestion for economy crisis already? no. now, you praying capitalist riches who dont want to share the wealth with you ordinary poor folks?)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
1 Apr 2010 #96
nomaderol: So, Poland never lived socialism really.

That was the real existing socialism/communism as real as it will ever get.
You are confusing a nice fantasy to what it will always evolve to once getting the real power, fact!
nomaderol 5 | 726
1 Apr 2010 #97
yours is baseless bla bla..
ok, lets say your words are true.
now, economy crisis has been in action for 2 years.
any suggestion? shall we go to church to pray?
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #98
Wroclaw Boy: Was it because they flourished in business?

No.

Wroclaw Boy: Was it because they had power in central Europe?

No.

Wroclaw Boy: Was it because they (so called) murdered Christ?

No.

Wroclaw Boy: Was it personal vendetta?

In some way.

It's very helpful to have a scapegoat when you are a populist like Hitler. Jews hadn't any power in Central Europe, especially in Poland when we had Aszkenazi's Jews (very religious and orthodox). The reason why Hitler picked up Jews instead of Poles or Frenchs was the Jews were very "visible" in social life. Before the war nearly 30 % of Polish people weren't actually Polish. Can you imagine? They were mostly Jews, Ukrainians, Germans, Russians or they came from some ethnic minorities like Kaszebians, Silesians, Mazurians, Lemkows etc.

It's sad but the idea of Holocaust came from sick mind of one man.

I don't want to insult you but don't you have some history books in country you come from ?
Wawel - | 14
1 Apr 2010 #99
The original question was, Why did Hitler kill so many Jews in Poland? One reason is that there were a lot of Jews in Poland to begin with. But I also have a theory that because Poland was blessed with a rich network of railways, extending throughout eastern and western Europe, it only made sense to funnel them there from Europe and the Soviet Union. Poland is well situated in the middle. The transport system was already quite well established. Many trains filled with arms for the Eastern front traveled through Poland from Germany. Rather than bring them back empty they were filled with prisoners of war, Jews, Gypsies, etc. and dropped off at various camps along the way for imprisonment and annihilation.

We will never know the real answer, but this may explain one piece of the puzzle. I do not buy the theory that it is because Poles are anti-semitic. Polish people can be shrewd businessmen as well.

Słucham!
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #100
Wawel: I do not buy the theory that it is because Poles are anti-semitic

But you have to agree that Poles were anti-semitic before the war.

Your theory is very reliable.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
1 Apr 2010 #101
Some were and some weren't I'd say.

I wouldn't say that Poland had a particularly developed transport network overall. It just had the routes that the Nazis needed. That was enough.
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #102
Seanus: I wouldn't say that Poland had a particularly developed transport network overall

Our train network was the most expanded in Europe, especially in western Poland. Of course now we have PKP and you can forget about this ;)
nomaderol 5 | 726
1 Apr 2010 #103
EchoTheCat: t's very helpful to have a scapegoat when you are a populist like Hitler.

True, he was scapegoat only. Hitler has passed away decades ago. If anti-Jewism is still alive, hitlers are still alive.

EchoTheCat: Aszkenazi's Jews (very religious and orthodox).

Ashkenazi Jews have never been religious really. They were seen so to eyes of Christians of Europe as religion was main factor in governing the states till last century. Ashkenazis were a minority in number and were only trying to protect themselves by grouping inside. Due to this fear of being minority that is available in any minority, Ashkenazis have had gain understanding, wisdom, intellectuality, and richness.

EchoTheCat: Before the war nearly 30 % of Polish people weren't actually Polish. Can you imagine? They were mostly Jews, Ukrainians, Germans, Russians or they came from some ethnic minorities like Kaszebians, Silesians, Mazurians, Lemkows etc.

More than 30%. Is there any Polish or Poland pre-1000? Poland had been like USA of Europe for centuries. But, poor Poland, it missed this chance by deporting Jews (by collobrating with the other governments of Europe that were under control of Churches.)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
1 Apr 2010 #104
That's what I meant, it was pretty reasonable in Silesia and that's where Auschwitz is located. Well, I consider it as Silesia ;) In other parts I wouldn't be so sure.
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #105
nomaderol: Ashkenazi Jews have never been religious really.

I had magisterium about wooden synagogues in Poland and Jewish polychrome paintings and I have to say that Aszkenazi's Jews weren's so open and assimilated as their Sefardians friends from western Europe. In their beliefs and religious life most of them were very traditional. But this is not a conversation for this thread :)

nomaderol: But, poor Poland, it missed this chance by deporting Jews

I agree. It was a mistake. After the war most of Jews which survived didn't want to live here and see the places of executions every day. And the rest of them were deported (or banished) in 68...
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
1 Apr 2010 #106
Why did Hitler kill so many Jew's in Poland?

Did Hitler actually kill any Jews himself at all, I mean personally? If he did, did he kill any in Poland?
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #107
SeanBM: Did Hitler actually kill any Jews himself at all, I mean personally? If he did, did he kill any in Poland?

He never killed anyone. Even during the IWW when he was a soldier.
TIT 5 | 211
1 Apr 2010 #108
SeanBM: Did Hitler actually kill any Jews himself at all, I mean personally? If he did, did he kill any in Poland?

is this a serious question?
vetala - | 382
1 Apr 2010 #109
mulsie
Racist attacks are sad but not at all unusual, especially at the time when a country is still in a mess and one more death might go unnoticed by the authorities. Jewish deaths are usually mentioned in books about... well - Jewish deaths, simply because that's what these books are about. Not because they were the only ones to die but, like MareGaea said, because these attacks happened so soon after a major tragedy so more attention is paid to them. I understand that bad incidents certainly influenced the decision to emigrate but let me repeat what I once said: FEELING unwelcomed and actually BEING in mortal danger are two different things. I might be afraid of being run over by a car but this doesn't mean that I'm in mortal danger every time I cross a street.

The problem with picking out specific deaths and incidents is that it creates a fake image of the situation. Loads of Poles were beaten up or even murdered in racist attacks in Great Britain in the recent years and tens of thousands have left Britain but it doesn't make the situation of the Polish minority desperate.

Please, remember that In REAL LIFE there are no extremes like 'bed of roses' or 'hell on earth'.
EchoTheCat - | 137
1 Apr 2010 #110
vetala: Please, remember that In REAL LIFE there are no extremes like 'bed of roses' or 'hell on earth'.

I don't understand. You think that Aushwitz wasn't a hell on earth for those Jews ? Or maybe Aushwitz wasn't real life ? Just asking.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
1 Apr 2010 #111
TIT: is this a serious question?

I am not suggesting an alternative history, if that is the way you are reading my question.
I just never heard of Hitler doing any of the killing himself.
Marek11111 9 | 816
1 Apr 2010 #112
MareGaea:
Just a question: why can't you Poles accept things you've done wrong in the past WITHOUT saying: "yeah, but THEY..." ? It sounds so childish, you know.

why Jews do not accept things they are doing wrong now like exterminating Palestinians and building illegal settlements? yea but the holocaust .... killer is a killer if it is a German or Jew.

I don't understand. You think that Aushwitz wasn't a hell on earth for those Jews ? Or maybe Aushwitz wasn't real life ? Just asking.

it was hell for everyone who was in Aushwitz and Jews ware not only ones there.
jonni 16 | 2,485
1 Apr 2010 #113
MareGaea: Just a question: why can't you Poles accept things you've done wrong in the past WITHOUT saying: "yeah, but THEY..." ? It sounds so childish, you know

Marek11111: why Jews do not accept things they are doing wrong now

Evidently not.
Harry
2 Apr 2010 #114
etc. and dropped off at various camps along the way for imprisonment and annihilation.

Nice theory. Pity it's complete bolllocks. Look where the trains came from. There are still plenty of records. Also look where the Jews actually were in 1939.
espana 17 | 910
2 Apr 2010 #115
i listen that mr adolf shagged a jews prostitute and he was etchy!!!!

may be for that!!!!!
nomaderol 5 | 726
2 Apr 2010 #116
They weren't assimilated cause actually they were/are not religious (not Jews really and they aren't semities like Sephardins.) You can't expect a nonreligious to become a Christian or religious. Assimilation in any culture is possible only and only in nonreligious environment in that religions can be considered like hobby only.

After the war most of Jews which survived didn't want to live here and see the places of executions every day. And the rest of them were deported (or banished) in 68...

A bad mistake by Poland government/s of the day/s. Not much different than Spain deportation of Jews in 15-16th century. Some of them immigrated to Ottoman lands. Ottoman Sultan of the day is said to have exclaimed thus at the Spanish monarch's lack of wisdom: "Ye call Ferdinand a wise king he who makes his land poor and ours rich!". They made USA too rich. Now, similarly, there is anti-Jewish propagand in USA. They had sponsored Poland too. They even theorized socialism for poor ordinary folks. What shall they do more!? They should go to church and pray?
TIT 5 | 211
2 Apr 2010 #117
they were so clever dont they?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity_in_Israel
nomaderol 5 | 726
2 Apr 2010 #118
A new country, million of immigration, just after WWII.. Even here in Turkey (though it was neutral at WWII), there was austerity. It is not about being intelligent. If you keep coal under big pressure for a long time, it becomes diamond. It is like that. Jews (mostly Ashkenazis actually, rather than Jews) have contributed to the science and art in last millenium more than Christians and Muslims. This is a fact. Christians and Muslims have been lazy ass*es trusting their populations only. (Ottomans differ here a little as I dont consider them Ottoman family as really Muslims.)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
2 Apr 2010 #119
TIT: they were so clever dont they?

Are you talking about the Jews, titty, or about the anti-semites? It's not really clear; maybe you could enlighten yourself, boobie? Thanks.

nomaderol: Jews (mostly Ashkenazis actually, rather than Jews) have contributed to the science and art in last millenium more than Christians and Muslims. This is a fact.

True, but it was equally divided amongst the Ashkenazi (FYI: Ashkenazi are Jews too) and the Sefardic Jews... But that shouldn't be an issue anyway.

>^..^<

M-G (gee)
TIT 5 | 211
2 Apr 2010 #120
MG dont you even call me an antisemite, I dont like extremist orthodox ones


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