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Goodbye Lenin - we don't want you in Poland!


1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #1
Quick reaction by ONR forces EMPIK stores to withdraw gadgets with images of communist criminals Lenin and Che Guevara.

NEOCOMMUNISM - Dozens of hours was enough to force the bookstore chain EMPiK to withdraw its offer gadgets with the image of Vladimir Lenin and Ernesto "Che " Guevara.

Buttons with the image of the communist criminal bear the motto "Learn - Lenin , laze - a student " . The image of "Che " Guevara was signed " Hasta la siempre ," which is a reference to the Cuban Revolution . Buttons were manufactured Kukartka having on offer include Christmas cards .

The social action " Fuk Bolshevik of EMPiK " by ONR - in in a short time involved nearly 1,000 people

Propagating Nazi and communist ideologies is illegal in Poland. Only a change of the present government can get rid of the ideological fathers of Gazeta Wyborcza though.


kompol.org



Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #2
No-one would dream of putting Che in the same league as Hitler, in terms of evil. Because Che lacked time and success. Lenin, however, was right up there in the Stalin and Hitler hall of notoriety.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #3
Indeed, but the communist criminals get a pass and find refuge in Poland and the rest of Europe. Very shameful.
jon357 71 | 20,410
7 Nov 2012 #4
So the ONR, a neo-nazi Group have lobbied because they don't like any extreme ideology except their own being promoted.
smurf 39 | 1,981
7 Nov 2012 #5
So you're saying if I wear my Rage Against the Machine t-shirt that has Che Guevara I'll be ******* off people on the streets?

Excellent *goes to allegro
¡Viva la RevoluciĆ³n!
Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #6
The way Jon is talking it would appear he has some sympathy for Lenin - the man who set up the biggest mass murder outfit in history.

Nice.
Smurf too.
jon357 71 | 20,410
7 Nov 2012 #7
Really? Or just a dislike of extremists like the 'ONR' who have no shortage of vicious ideology of their own to promote.

The "way you are talking" Varsovian, sounds like you "have some sympathy" for the uniformed extreme right...

To most people the ONR are neo-nazis and fascists. If they want to pretend otherwise, they should think about toning down the uniforms, flags and political demonstrations.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #8
To most people the ONR a neo-nazis and fascists.

To most people you hang out with, I 'm sure. To communists Armia Krajowa was fascist too. Here is how they dealt with the "fascists" after WWII:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August%C3%B3w_roundup
Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #9
I'm sure Urban sticks to his theme that it never happened
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #10
Does anybody know under what law it is illegal in Poland to display symbols associated with communism?

Also, what is the stance of the ONR on Poles who volunteered for the armed forces of nations which were preparing to destroy Poland?
jon357 71 | 20,410
7 Nov 2012 #11
Spot on. Amazing there's a thread here about the 'ONR' given who they are. Rabble and riff-raff who aren't taken seriously.
smurf 39 | 1,981
7 Nov 2012 #12
Smurf too.

nope, we didn't learn about Lenin in school other than, there was a Russian revolution and that meant they left the first world war. I just like my RATM tshirt. I also have a USSR one (this sexy number) and a USSR army hat like this hat.

I'm certainly not a communist, I'm actually a crime-fighting Jedi trained neo-libertarian.
The bonus comes in the fact that empty symbols like these annoy flammers like Jola and Varsovians.

This is me in my Che tshirt. i41.tinypic.com/mhem3a.png]che tshirt

*

* not actually me

This is you, angry

old people in poland

This is both mixed together.

See, we can all get along if we just try :)
Peace and love
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #13
life and liberty.

One of the things about liberty is that if one wants it, one has to extend it to other people. This means that instead of carrying out my preferred option with the ONR scum (i.e. transporting them to deepest Africa and then dropping them in well dispersed small groups so they can demonstrate to the locals exactly who the master race is, obviously we'll give them the same type of equipment that the locals have), I have to tolerate them having marches and throwing Hitler salutes. In the same way you have to tolerate hippies wearing Che t-shirts.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #14
Does anybody know under what law it is illegal in Poland to display symbols associated with communism?

Art 256 Kodeks Karny

Also, what is the stance of the ONR on Poles who volunteered for the armed forces of nations which were preparing to destroy Poland?

The stance of ONR and any other Pole who believed and believes in free and independent Poland was and is to fight totalitarian regimes like National Socialism and and its sister ideology - International Socialism.

Now, which army did you serve in?

So to you the Poles who joined the SS are just fine as long as they didn't actually ever take any aggressive action against any Polish forces. What a strange stance.

You must be talking about the Polish Jews who served the Gestapo, but they didn't actually join the SS,, That's really of no consequence in this thread.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBagiew
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #15
Art 256 Kodeks Karny

Does it really? Or are you lying yet again?
Are you perhaps referring to Article 256 sec 1 of the Act of 6 June 1997 - the Penal Code (Journal of Laws -Dz. U. No. 88, item 553, as amended) "Whoever publicly promotes fascist or other totalitarian system of state or incites hatred - national, ethnic, racial, religious, nevertheless of religious beliefs shall be subject to a fine, restriction of liberty or imprisonment for 2 years." in conjunction with 256 Article sec 2 "The same penalty shall apply to whoever produces in order to spread, acquires, stores, possesses, presents, carries or sends print, recording or other object containing the content specified in par. 1" ?

If so, I'll have to refer you to Judgment of the Constitutional Tribunal of 19 July 2011 Ref. No. K 11/10:

1. Article 256(2) of the Act of 6 June 1997 - the Penal Code (Journal of Laws -Dz. U. No. 88, item 553, as amended), in the part containing the wording: "or being carriers of fascist, communist or other totalitarian symbols", is inconsistent with Article 42(1) in conjunction with Article 54(1) and Article 2 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland.
...
6. The effects of the judgment.
Declaring Article 256(2) in fine of the Penal Code to be unconstitutional entails that the application of Article 256(4) will be limited. [...]

trybunal.gov.pl/eng/summaries/documents/K_11_10_EN.pdf

So when you say that Article 256 of the Penal Code bans the public display symbols associated with communism, you are actually lying.

The stance of ONR and any other Pole who believed and believes in free and independent Poland was and is to fight totalitarian regimes like National Socialism and and its sister ideology - International Socialism.

One does wonder whether dropping nuclear bombs on Poland is an appropriate way for Poles to fight International Socialism. I wonder what Poles think of it. How do they generally react that you were one of the people who stood ready to murder them and their entire families any time your Yankee paymasters gave you the order?

Now, which army did you serve in?

One which has never in any way threatened Poland.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #16
So when you say that Article 256 of the Penal Code bans the public display symbols associated with communism, you are actually lying.

This is what happens when you don't replace communist judges. They tend to defend themselves and their sons with who you find such common ground.
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #17
So you mean that it is the fault of communist judges that you decided to lie about what Article 256 of the Penal Code bans? Well that is an original excuse, even by your standards.
Ironside 51 | 11,339
7 Nov 2012 #18
I just love it when bigots get caught out by their own lies and I can demonstrate that with ease.

what are you talking about? Such anti-commie law exist but is not implemented- simple! Why would commies and people who made their way in life being part of totalitarian regime in Poland and their families turn on symbols of communism? They were oppressed they were oppressors. But then you wouldn't call them bigots being commie yourself!
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #19
it wasn't the Salvation Army that I spent a year working alongside in Poland, it was the Peace Corps.

So you served in the Peace Corps and not in the army. Why did you lie then?

So you mean that it is the fault of communist judges that you decided to lie about what Article 256 of the Penal Code bans?

Me, being unaware that since last year you can wear your Lenin and Hitler T-shirt with pride does not make me a liar.

A lie is when you claimed on this forum that there were more people in PZPR than in Solidarity. Even a ten-year-old Polish kid knows that there were ten million Solidarity members and two million Party members..That was a lie which served you in another slanderous "discussion."

I'm not bothered wasting my time on looking for the other instances where you used foul language towards me, do it yourself. I've a good memory boyo and while I'm willing to forgive and forget once an apology is given, I do not forget.

Can you go somewhere else to stomp your little foot, please?
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #20
Such anti-commie law exist but is not implemented- simple!

You seem to overlook the fact that the Constitutional Tribunal struck down the part of the law in question which banned the display of communist symbols as it was unconstitutional and as such that part of the law no longer exists. I do wonder why you continue to tell such pointless lies.

Me, being unaware that since last year you can wear your Lenin and Hitler T-shirt with pride does not make me a liar.

You claimed Article 256 says something which it does not and which it is widely known not to say. Or would you have us believe that you take so much interest in the display of communist symbols that you have memorised the article the particular law but have managed to completely miss the fact that that part has been struck out as unconstitutional?

So you served in the Peace Corps and not in the army. Why did you lie then?

Peace Corps in Poland was at the time I worked alongside them only for US citizens and Polish citizens. I have never said that I served in Peace Corps. Why do you lie that I have?

A lie is when you claimed on this forum that there were more people in PZPR than in Solidarity. Even a ten-year-old Polish kid knows that there were ten million Solidarity members and two million Party members..That was a lie which served you in another slanderous "discussion."

You might want to look at the total number of Poles who were members of PZPR, not the peak membership (which was actually three and a half million, not two million, but thanks for yet another lie).
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #21
Why do you lie that I have?

Everybody lies to you. Poor thing.
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #22
Nope. But I do make it a point of calling out those that do lie to me, which explains why I've been busy here pointing out your lies.

Now, perhaps you can tell us why a Polish shopkeeper being prevented from selling entirely legal products as a result of threats from Neo-Nazis is in any way a cause for celebration?
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #23
So you think it is kosher to sell swastica bumper stickers in Poland?
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #24
I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think that symbols should be banned when they are being used to harass or threaten or cause distress. If a bunch of Neo-Nazis want to stand round a Nazi flag and jerk off to it, that's fine with me (do your buddies do that). But if they want to stand outside a Romani community association building waving it at Romani people while shouting about what the Nazis did to Romani during the holocaust, that most certainly should be illegal.
Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #25
Point of fact:
jola was corrected on a point of fact - that doesn't make her a liar. A liar is someone who says something knowing it to be wrong. Perhaps I could get a link to a dictionary ...
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #26
So you expect us to believe that he takes so much interest in the display of communist symbols that he has memorised the article the particular law but has managed to completely miss the fact that that part has been struck out as unconstitutional? Even he hasn't tried to use that excuse: even he knows how unbelievable it is.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
7 Nov 2012 #27
If a bunch of Neo-Nazis want to stand round a Nazi flag and jerk off to it, that's fine with me (do your buddies do that).

That's fine with you because the Germans didn't invade your country nor had they murdered anyone in your family. The same goes for communists. You are a disinterested bystander with a big mouth who has little knowledge of the events you are trying to get involved in.
Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #28
Harry - your logic doesn't stand up. Well done for making the correction, finding chapter and verse etc. - these aren't easy finds for the average person.
Harry
7 Nov 2012 #29
That's fine with you because the Germans didn't invade your country nor had they murdered anyone in your family.

You seem to have forgotten that I consider Poland to be my country. And as it happens members of my family were murdered by the Germans. But don't let truth get in your way.

You are a disinterested bystander with a big mouth who has little knowledge of the events you are trying to get involved in.

It seems from the post above that I have rather better knowledge about the events than you do.

finding chapter and verse etc. - these aren't easy finds for the average person.

As it happens, all they'd have to do is look at this forum: Russians want to march on the streets of Warsaw before the Euro Match.

But of course as a poster with a mere 2,835 posts here, 1jola wants to claim that he's never seen any of the discussion here about Article 256 and he missed the public statements made by Polish government ministers this summer about this exact topic.
Varsovian 92 | 634
7 Nov 2012 #30
I don't know her status, but I post in between doing many other things - I wouldn't necessarily have been able to find it, but there again I couldn't be bothered to look, just assumed. A dangerous thing, that.

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