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Give Poland back it's lost land !


Vlad1234 14 | 575
20 Feb 2019  #121
I think that in modern Europe borders between the nations and self-determination of nations is often based on languages. So, basically the main difference between a Pole and a Ukrainian (or Belarussian) is that the first speaks Polish and the second either Ukrainian or Russian or Belorussian. Don't get wonder but many people who speak Russian in daily life self-identify as a Ukrainians or Belarussians. Some people will mention the culture as well, but personally I don't see something in Polish culture that a typical Ukrainian or Belarussian would refuse to accept.

I think someone could find it quite strange the situation when the borders between nations and national self-identity of people is defined by languages mostly. Will we be able to move beyond this linguistic borders someday? Will there be a more important factors which will define the borders?
Torq 26 | 2,371
20 Feb 2019  #122
Language, yes. We shouldn't also underestimate religion as a factor in national identity. Catholicism in Poland is so deeply ingrained in the national identity that there is even the term Polak-katolik to signify real Polish identity (which, of course, entails a measure of oversimplification).

For centuries Poles have been threatened by protestant Prussians from the west and Orthodox Russians from the east, and when we lost our country in 1795, our religion became even more important as a factor in national identity.

So, the difference between a Pole and a Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian is mainly language and religion. Some people would also say civilisation (different approach to things like state power, corruption, nepotism etc.) but I think that in the globalised world this has become less important, and Ukrainians, for example, are adapting quite well to Polish way of living.
Vlad1234 14 | 575
20 Feb 2019  #123
Some people would also say civilisation (different approach to things like state power, corruption, nepotism etc.)

You as always confuse different types of cultures/civilizations (something that people do willingly accept as their heritage and self-identity) with matter of been just Un-civilized/UN-cultural.
Torq 26 | 2,371
20 Feb 2019  #124
Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,618
20 Feb 2019  #125
there is even the term Polak-katolik to signify real Polish identity

There was a superb scene in the sitcom "Świat według Kiepskich" when the main character, alcoholic Ferdek Kiepski says to his wife: Halinka, ja jezzdem Polak!, jezzdem katolik!

Another sign of Polish identity is (was?) alcohol. I remember Ferdek Kiepski painting himself black (for reasons I can't remember) and then drinking a lot of vodka. Next he walks out into park staggering heavily where two old and noble and elegantly dressed ladies sitting on a bench see him and one of them cries out with indignation:

- Patrzy pani, Murzyn - a pijany jak Polak!
Vlad1234 14 | 575
20 Feb 2019  #126
You as always confuse different types of cultures/civilizations (something that people do willingly accept and protect as their heritage and self-identity) with matter of been just Un-civilized/UN-cultured.

Or sometimes just unfortunate. (For historical circumstances).
Vlad1234 14 | 575
21 Feb 2019  #127
Cultures and civilizations are intermittent in any case. 1300 years ago Romans and Greeks looked at Germanics, Brits and Celts like at uncivilized barbarians. Now Germany, UK and Ireland are perhaps more economically developed than Greece or Italy. Eastern Europe may change as well with time.
Lyzko 23 | 6,659
21 Feb 2019  #128
Economically developed for sure, although I maintain there's a different between being "cultured" aka "civilized" and enlightened! Germany is perhaps the perfect example of the latter:-)

From Gruenewald and Duerer to Kepler and Kirchner, Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Goethe, Schiller, Gauss, Koch, Liebig ad infinitum. However, nothing in their failed "Aufklaerung" prepared them for Hitler.

So much for the often false veneer of "civilization"; the Germans still behaved like barbarians, indeed proud barbarians!!
Vlad1234 14 | 575
21 Feb 2019  #129
Some scientists predict that in this century we will witness the rise of a new creatures with superhuman intelligence. If they are right then human culture and civilization differences may become not as important as ever before.
Lyzko 23 | 6,659
22 Feb 2019  #130
If you mean the old automaton idea aka "robots" as Karel Capek predicted in the 1920's, you may well be right. Other than that, humanity will never die, unless it ceases to be in fact "humAN" rather than merely "humanOID"!
Vlad1234 14 | 575
22 Feb 2019  #131
Not necessarily. The first officially GM humans were born in China recently.
Lyzko 23 | 6,659
22 Feb 2019  #132
One or so billion faceless automatons! Perfect slaves for the capitalist fodder...GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
LOL


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