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Give Poland back it's lost land !


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,683
30 Nov 2018  #61
Lots of Hungarians are still grousing over it as we speak!

Yeah...but at some point people need to stop with that grousing..it leads only to blood and tears.

I can understand severely opressed people fighting for their freedom and independence but in todays Europe that just isn't the case anymore...
Crow 137 | 7,518
30 Nov 2018  #62
And Hungary is in even harder situation then Poland. And look what policy have Hungary and what Poland.

So Hungary would get support to return Erdelj (Erdely) region. Mark my words. Would get support by having balanced relationships with all relevant factors. I mean, ALL relevant factors.

What our Poland doing? Not a single act of honesty from official Poland. Not a single. Loyalty to Slavdom? Loyalty to friends? To brothers? No, loyalty what is that? More loyalty one get from Hungary. At least minimum of respect. So one wish to return them favor with same respect.

No, that what we see in behavior of official Poland is what we see when some world elite decided to s***w some country and they then let some moron become president. Not one president, I mean moron. Moron after moron.
Tacitus 2 | 817
30 Nov 2018  #63
Loyalty to Slavdom? Loyalty to friends?

Poland has shown more loyalty towards its' Slavic friends than most. While Poland is helping her brothers in the Ukraine which are currently under attack, Serbia is busy kissing Putin's hand.
Crow 137 | 7,518
30 Nov 2018  #64
You don`t helping, man. And why would you help? You need deluded Poland. So you completely twisting facts. You must.

Ukraine was attacked by EU, by Germany in particular followed by her loyal western European crimi-hordes. Before maiden, there was hope, there was UKRPOLBAT, there were joint military exercises of Polish, Serbian, Belarus and Ukrainian troops. Russia let it go, was ready for compromise. Then came the interests of Germany and maiden. Yes, who gives a sh** for UKRPOLBAT and for Polish interests, for any Slavic deal. Germany is must. MUS. Poland? I don`t think so. So what you expected? Russia to accept primate of German interests? Russia to give Russians for slaughter to Nazi banderists? That we Serbs give Serbs of Ukraine to Nazi banderists? What I know, Poles also needed protection from Nazis in Ukraine.

And, you mentioned Serbia. Let me tell you, Serbia is independent country. You know why? Because, we Serbs don`t have matrix of behavior. We behave with honesty. When we feel that Russia is wrong, we say Russia is wrong. When we feel that Russia is right, we say that. We don`t wait that somebody tell us- yes, you can tell that or you can`t tell that. We tell what we feel and that makes us free. Same stance we have on Poland, on USA, on Slavic and non-Slavic countries. That is how we Serbs serve to Slavdom. By having our own stance.

And we learned from the best. No, there wouldn`t happen Gavrilo if Zawisha Czarny didn`t died for Serbs, for Racowie. If he didn`t help in liberation of Serbians from Turks. If he and many other Poles didn`t help, we Serbs would extinct and we wouldn`t be able later to do something for Poles.

That Poland I want back. Poland of Zawisha and Warneńczyk.

Don`t fear Poles. Pay the price. Heads up. Fight for your right to speak freely! Deny right to EU and to western Europe and to anybody to meddling in Poland`s interests, same way as you stand up to Russians. Fight for Poland with dignity. Admit that now EU killing Poland, not Russia. Admit. Then tomorrow you can judge to Russians, when come their time of sin. But now, it is EU that hold and murdering Poland gently.

gift to true Poles >

From Serbian movie - Najduza noc ( pesma iz filma " Zaspanka za vojnike" )
youtube.com/watch?v=iH5fIL618y0
Lithuanian Man
2 Jan 2019  #65
How is Vilnius polish? It has been founded by lithuanians, and they have never ceased to be the dominant ethnic group in the region, in fact polish have as much of a right to Vilnius as lithuanians to Warsaw . Belarus as well was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania for a very long time and has never been polish (even during the years of Polish - Lithuanian Commonwealth) (In fact it was heavily slavified during it's occupation by the Russian Empire). Parts of Ukraine, that were part of the commonwealth, were also a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (conquered by the Dukes - Algirdas And Vytautas) until they were ceeded to the Kingdom of Poland by the treaty of Lublin. But even if the parts of Ukraine that were ceeded to Poland ,from a historical standpoint, should belong to Poland (or more likely Polish - Lithuanian commonwealth, since those lands were granted to Poland as a member of a union between the two states, not as a separate entity) it is not relevant today, because Ukrainians do not identify as polish, they also haven't expressed any wish to be a part of a Polish, or Polish - Lithuanian State (the same goes for Lithuanian - Belarussian relations). As for Kaliningrad (as it is currently known) I do not know of any polish aspirations to reclaim it, but if there are any, I would like to dispell them by stating, that until it was conquered by german crusaders, in the XIII century, it was inhabited by a baltic *not a slavic* tribe called "Prussians" (that's where Kingdom of Prussia got it's name from) so historical slavic, especially russian, claims to the region are a total nonsense (even the names of the cities in the region are prodominently lithuanian : Tilžė, Karaliaučius, Rožėnai, Gumbinė and Bartų Romuva to name a few . As for Suwałki or Suvalkai region, historically it never was polish until its ocupation by Poland in the Polish - Lithuanian war. Overall Poland has no legitimate claims on foreign territories.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Poland_and_Lithuania_in_1526.PNG/800px-Poland_and_Lithuania_in_1526.PNG
Poland and Lithuania before the union.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Irp1569.jpg/800px-Irp1569.jpg
Poland and Lithuania in the Polish Lithuanian union.
Vlad1234 13 | 537
2 Jan 2019  #66
It is actually interesting to meet a Lithuanian here. I have sympathy for Lithuanians and Baltic people in general. I rather like culture and people (from what I know about them). Interesting that we share centuries of common history as Kiev was conquered by Lithuanians in 14-th century and liberated from Mongol yoke at least. I'm pretty sure there was some intermixing (when I saw some Kievan woman) and centuries of cultural influence. I would be glad to see cultural and economic contacts increase between people from our countries. What is your view on the future of Lithuanian-Ukrainian relations? Would you want to make our people closer?
Lyzko 20 | 6,309
2 Jan 2019  #67
Lithuanians and Latvians (Letts??) often claim similar historical allegiances with Poland, feeling understandably resentful of the Russians.
Vlad1234 13 | 537
2 Jan 2019  #68
Lithuanians and Latvians (Letts??) often claim similar historical allegiances with Poland

Are you sure? I'm not aware of this.

feeling understandably resentful of the Russians.

And what about Ukrainians and Belarussians?
Lithuanian Man
2 Jan 2019  #69
Yes, most definetly, I feel strong empathy for the people of Ukraine seen as they are once again experiencing the Russian agression ( to which the whole of eastern europe was submitted for centuries), we have strong historical ties as well (we would have similar ties to Belarus if their goverment weren't russian puppets ). And as for the future of Lithuanian - Ukrainian relations, my hope is that they continue to improve, I'm glad that Ukraine is moving away from the russian sphere of influence and towards the west (Altough I'm not very fond of the current western values system as it's being projected in France, Germany and other leftist - ruled countries, and my sincere hope is, that Ukraine does not choose that path), but they shoul definetly join the NATO, not so much the EU. Are you Ukrainian or Polish - Ukrainian yourself by any chance?
gumishu 11 | 4,990
2 Jan 2019  #70
Lithuanians had always trouble understanding that Vilnius/Wilno and it's region had overwhelming Polish majority at the end of WW the first - they also have trouble admitting that some regions that the Polish state allowed to remain in Lithuania had Polish majority or a very sizeable minority (look up Lauda= Polonia Laudańska) andthat these were subject to heavy Lithuanizing pressure - just look up Lithuanian surnames - you will find that plenty of them are Polish in disguise - Brazauskas=Brzozowski, Prunskiene - Pruńska - just from my memory there are hundreds of surnames that were Lithuanised in this manner - just look up this site en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lithuanian-language_surnames
Lithuanian Man
2 Jan 2019  #71
Latvians, at least from my experience do not associate with Poland, or the Polish - Lithuanian commonwealth very much, they do however associate with lithuanians, as a fraternal nation, because they are a part of a same ethnic group.

@gumishu
How do you know they were not slavified, seen as the lithuanian nobility in the Polish - Lithuanian union aspired to appear polish, to be seen more western - like, and as a result of that a lot of them changed their surnames to appear more polish.
gumishu 11 | 4,990
2 Jan 2019  #72
How do you know they were not slavified,

they were Slavicised indeed (more like Polonised) - but there was no administrative pressure responsible for it for the whole period of Lithuania being influenced by Poland - people simply adopted Polish language because of convenience and because of cultural appeal

Kowno area Poles including Lauda Poles where in contrast forced to adopt the Lithuanian language
from what I can gather Lithuanian nobility were adopting Polish surnames and were adopted into Polish noble clans for a long time and no trace of their previous surnames remained then - still some of these people (Lithuanian nobility) only changed their surnames into more or less Polish sounding forms - hence we have Radziwiłłs, Dowgirds, Januszajtis's,
Vlad1234 13 | 537
2 Jan 2019  #73
I was born in Ukraine and my native language is Russian, but I speak Ukrainian as well. I hope that all Europe will unite some day and such countries as Ukraine, Moldova, Russia and Belarus will become EU members. There will be no need for NATO because any hostility will disappear and no more weapons directed at each other will be needed. We are all the humans and therefore share common values. I like sound of Lithuanian language.
gumishu 11 | 4,990
2 Jan 2019  #74
I hope that all Europe will unite some day and such countries as Ukraine, Moldova, Russia and Belarus will become EU members. T

it is a very hopeful future you suggest here - at the moment Russian elites seem to be the major obstacle though - although I think that Russians cherish their imperial status and their alienation from Europe
Vlad1234 13 | 537
2 Jan 2019  #75
it is a very hopeful future you suggest here - at the moment Russian elites seem to be the major obstacle though -

I feel that in the last few years Russia started to behave like a cornered bear which afraids of almost complete political isolation. Yet, the Europe doesn't need to loose hope and attempts to normalize relations with Russia and even integrate it. This is a policy which turned to be successful during Gorbachev times, for example. Fortunately, Russia has no more serious ideological discrepancies with the rest of Europe like it was 40 years ago.

although I think that Russians cherish their imperial status and their alienation from Europe

I'm not sure majority of Russians feel this way. What kind of "empire" Russia is now? Ethnic Russians constitute more than 80% of its population.
mafketis 19 | 7,003
3 Jan 2019  #76
Russia started to behave like a cornered bear which afraids of almost complete political isolation

I'm reminded that when Putin tried to be international the Russian public turned against him and it was only when he began invading places that the public got behind him.
Vlad1234 13 | 537
3 Jan 2019  #77
I'm reminded that when Putin tried to be international the Russian public turned against him

Can you give some example? Where did you take it from?
Crnogorac3 1 | 354
3 Jan 2019  #78
During the 1990's the Russians actually looked up to the West and had high hopes of being partners with the West and in the future even had ambitions of eventually joining the EU.

This all changed after this event when all such illusions were broken:

slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/03/putins-crimea-revenge-ever-since-the-u-s-bombed-kosovo-in-1999-putin-has-been-planning-to-get-even.html

The West never had any real intentions of being partners with Russia, they always looked on Russia as a rival and an opponent, they only have one aim and that is to encircle and eventually to destroy Russia.

One of the leading Neocons Zbigniew Brzezinski even stated during those times that Russia should be divided and broken up into 4-5 smaller states (that would be easier to control). US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said that Russia has no right to extract and utilise the vast resources in Siberia that these belong not only to them but to "the World".

It was the statements such as those of these 2 leading Zionists that eventually woke Russia up to their real agenda.
Crnogorac3 1 | 354
3 Jan 2019  #79
For those who understand geopolitics, this what the West is doing to Russia is called "Anaconda Strategy".
zlotelwy
3 Jan 2019  #80
YEA THIS IS WHY i don't get why so many people on this forum (although I understand most are british sexpats not polish people who speak English) claim orthodox religion and cyrillic is like less west then poland or more foreign when serbia a country geographically not much more east than poland has t and has good alliance with russia and was bombed by the west. poland really is not west outside of today poland particularly warsaw. most of the poor places and smaller towns are filled with dresses or hooligans just like russia.

fact is I know what growing up in America as a Polak meant and I know it was the russians who came to my aid who saw the similarities in cultures who never called me dumb or pollack but a brother and when I was in an ice faculty in california immigration being deported we were all one. we had a group of a few russians and one lithuanian and we were one people.

please back to the topic
Lyzko 20 | 6,309
3 Jan 2019  #81
After the uncounted millions of war dead between '43-'45, no Russian in their right mind could still have a taste for war!
Vlad1234 13 | 537
3 Jan 2019  #82
More important, I think, is that there is no objective reasons for open war between NATO and Russia. Is there any?
Lyzko 20 | 6,309
3 Jan 2019  #83
Certainly not. Even Czar Vladimir couldn't be that absurd.
Ironside 47 | 9,622
4 Jan 2019  #84
How is Wilno Lietuvian? A name Lithuania pertain towards the grand dutchy of Lithuania which encompassed Polish speaking middle, ruthenian aka Belarusian south and Samogitia where in 19th century they build their own idea of their national identity. All good and dandy but why claim Lithuania i.e. the Dutchy for your narrow nationalistic and rather silly in the context vision? Lithuania was nothing but your mono-cultural Lilliputian statelet.... it was the most diverse and the most muliti - everything part of the Polish Comnoathwelth.

Your claims about some alleged historical rights over Wilno was and is an absurd, a part of political propaganda that at best can be tolerated. Tolerance ends if that state whose very existence depends on Poland's helpful attitude takes liking to discriminate against Polish minority in a number of ways.

I would like to dispell them by stating, that until it was conquered by german crusaders, it was inhabited by a baltic *

bhahahaa. dispel it by all mean my good boy have a blast, that what is basically called a delusion of grandeur.

With what army or people or economy you would take over that land? Man, Lithuanian population is about 400 000 short of three millions people, out of it about 7% are Polish people, about 5% are Russians, about 2% some others. So out is 14% of that marge number,

Basically the number of people of the entry country is almost equal to the number of residents of Warsaw. Ha, if you take out those who are outside the country you can hardly hols a party.

I mean really?
Lithuanian Man
4 Jan 2019  #85
Your claims about some alleged historical rights over Wilno was and is an absurd, a part of political propaganda that at best can be tolerated.

First of all Vilnius was founded and built by Lithuanians, it was their capital for centuries, and is anything, but polish. Your rethoric, that if there is a large group of people in another country, their home country has a right so sieze this region, is very similar to the mindset of Adolph Hitler (annexation of the suddetenland, demands for Danzing, etc.). I presume you don't like him very much, do you? Please, for the love of God, do not become the facists, you despise so much.
Lithuanian Man
4 Jan 2019  #86
With what army or people or economy you would take over that land?

It was not a claim... It was just an example to point out flaws in your rethoric.
gumishu 11 | 4,990
4 Jan 2019  #87
you are wasting your time quarrelling with Polish outcasts and about an issue that doesn't matter anymore - Vilnius has no more Polish majority and is not contested by the Polish government - I guess you do so to obscure real issues Polish people face in Lithuania like the ability to use Polish versions of their names on official documents which creates problems while they interact with authorities in Poland -
Lithuanian Man
4 Jan 2019  #88
whose very existence depends on Poland's helpful attitude takes liking to discriminate against Polish minority in a number of ways.

What kind of discrimination? Just replace the word Poland and polish, with Russia and russian, as said by russia to poland, or any other NATO country for that matter, it is like Putin's #1 excuse for invading places.

the ability to use Polish versions of their names on official documents which creates problems while they interact with authorities in Poland -

That is a problem, I admit, but it is not an issue of intentional discrimination against polish people, it is merely a problem of a beurocratic goverment's innability to ammend the constitution (Lithuanian constitution states that, official documents, like pasports, have to be written only in Lithuanian letters) and take real decisions.

I'd like to state, that I really respect Poland for standing firm against idiotic EU policies, and the rise of globalism and left - wing politics in general. Also for being prodominently christian in an increasingly anti - religious world.
gumishu 11 | 4,990
4 Jan 2019  #89
well I'm not a Christian and to be honest the spiritual teaching I follow states that Christianity is a major obstacle for the Forces of Light to have a true impact on the state of things on this planet
Lithuanian Man
4 Jan 2019  #90
Are you a muslim or something? Because that sounds like one the things a representative of the "religion of peace" would say.

And what about politics, are you a leftist or a conservative?


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