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Give Poland back it's lost land !



Archie Bunker    
14 Jan 2017  #31

I fully support the idea that Germany should recover all of its lost territories to the invaders that Frau Merkle let in the country. Germany and its nationalists are too involved in fighting that invasion that they would be unable to protest the restoration of Poland's pre-war borders. In fact, Germans wanting to live in a Christian nation may decide to vote with their feet and restore Poland's historic ethnic German minority.

Opportunity abounds, and it should not be wasted.

I'm sure you will also support the idea that Germany should recover its lost territories in the east as well then...



Crow 136 | 5,893    
14 Jan 2017  #32

Only future for Germans is to come back to Slavdom, to their origin, to the ancients. Only that can wash every their sickness, deviation and delusion. Most of today`s Germans are directly Serbs, Poles and Czechs. We need to work with that people.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
15 Jan 2017  #33

To the victor(s) go the spoils. Germany lost WWII, therefore surrendering all lands/territories seized by her during the period of her occupation which promptly ended by War's end in 1945! She signed a treaty of unconditional capitulation to the Allied Forces and thus relinquished any and all "rights" to Prussia along with remaining areas in the East.

What is so difficult to comprehend, people?
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
15 Jan 2017  #34

To the victor(s) go the spoils.

Nobody asked the Poles what they wanted. They were sold to Stalin, together with half of the continent. "Liberators of Europe" ... NOT.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
16 Jan 2017  #35

Nor the Germans, which is why some people feel that Nuremberg was merely "Siegerjustiz", and nothing else:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
16 Jan 2017  #36

Nuremberg was merely "Siegerjustiz"

The trials were necessary, but that's not when half the continent was handed over to Stalin. That happened in Yalta.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
17 Jan 2017  #37

Historically true, TheOther, only the Yalta Treaty benefited more the US than it did Germany:-) If not for the Marshall Plan, the Morgenthau Proposal would've successfully divyed up the remaining German territory into farm land to be parceled out among the existing Allies!

Sorry. From my perspective, all such claims of return to "former" ownership are a lost battle with no ammo left for a second round.
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
17 Jan 2017  #38

Sorry.

Did you misunderstand? I was never for a return of the lost east German territories, nor for a return of the lost eastern Polish territories. That's a recipe for desaster.

the Yalta Treaty benefited more the US than it did Germany

Of course. Just like in WW1, the Americans were late to the party but managed to turn the outcome of both wars into their advantage. Europe became militarily insignificant on the world stage with only two powers left: the USA and the USSR. Wasn't the destruction of the British Empire one of America's primary geopolitical goals?

the Morgenthau Proposal would've successfully divyed up the remaining German territory

Some say, the Morgenthau Plan was set up and implemented to starve the German population to death.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
17 Jan 2017  #39

....as revenge for Coventry and London, more even than for Auschwitz!!
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
17 Jan 2017  #40

A genocide as revenge? There goes your moral high ground...
Wincig 2 | 147    
17 Jan 2017  #41

Europe became militarily insignificant on the world stage with only two powers left: the USA and the USSR

That's quite normal. Let's not forget that both world wars originated in Europe , and that our continent created both evil totalitarisms, nazism and communism. Quite natural that we got punished for this. That might of course change if the USA creates its own totalitarism of "the third kind", ie Trumpism. They might ultimately be punished for this and Europe will have its revenge :)
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
17 Jan 2017  #42

TheOther, many US citizens at the time believed the fire bombing of Dresden and other German cities was more than justified, considering the Blitz of London etc. The plan to bomb the railway station at Auschwitz and various concentration camps was shelved as "too dangerous".

Hmm, maybe:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
17 Jan 2017  #43

That might of course change...

All empires end up on the garbage dump of history one day. Some sooner, some a little later.
Crow 136 | 5,893    
17 Jan 2017  #44

Poles, nobody won`t give you back anything. Nobody can`t fight your wars for you. But, if you move, you won`t be alone and abandoned.
Bejma    
18 Jan 2017  #45

I don't know about giving it back, but if I was the western Ukraine (Lwów & vicinity in particular) I'd voluntarily re-attach myself to Poland. Russia couldn't do a thing about it. So-called "Ukrainians" there speak better Polish than the Poles (because that's what they are).
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
18 Jan 2017  #46

Lwów aka L'viv also changed hands, originally part of the erstwhile Austro-Hungarian Empire, when she was known solely as "Lemberg":-)

At the time, pre-WWI, let's not forget either that much of the city was German-speaking Jewish, who were though also bilingual Polish as well.
Archie Bunker    
18 Jan 2017  #47

Ah, yes Galicia, which was known in German as Klein-Polen, which translates exactly as Little Poland in English and accurately describes what it was. No, Lwów was not originally part of the Hapsburg Empire, which claimed it as part of Hungary during the partitions of Poland. No, Lwów was not called Lemburg by the 86% of the city's population, (including many Jews) which spoke Polish as its first language in the1910 census. They called it Lwów, as it was and is a very Polish city.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
19 Jan 2017  #48

As it was explained to me by a former "Lembergerin", a refugee from Austria to Poland in 1938 (and currently ninety-five!!), who spent her adolecence in Lwów, was that German was the mother tongue of fellow Viennese-Jewish refugees, while Polish was the official language of all residents of the city, not even Yiddish among the native-born Jews:-)
Archie Bunker    
19 Jan 2017  #49

There may very well have been Jewish immigrants from German speaking countries, since Poland had always been a haven for the Jews from Germanic anti-Semitism. However, according to the 1910 Census, 86% of Lwów's population spoke Polish, and 11% spoke a Ruthenian language as a first language. So, by the math, 3% or less of the population spoke German, or another language.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
19 Jan 2017  #50

If you spoke Ruthenian as a mother tongue, may I therefore assume you are a Huzul by birth?

MODS: Apologize once more if the query is ever so slightly "off topic"!
:-)))
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
19 Jan 2017  #51

Skimmed post too quickly. I misread your message.
Just ignore:-)
Archie Bunker    
19 Jan 2017  #52

Ruthenian relates to Kievan Rus, the people, the languages, etc.. Modern linguists consider that there were several Ruthenian languages listed as such in the 1910 Galician census under one heading. At this time, ethnicity and nationality were determined by a legitimate child's father, not his or her mother. The mother's native tongue was not considered important. If the queen had balls, wouldn't she be the king?
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
19 Jan 2017  #53

I wasn't aware of that, Archie Bunker. Thanks:-)
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
20 Jan 2017  #54

I met an elderly gentleman the other day who hailed from the former Rastenburg (Polish ??? I can't recall it at the moment), in the now long-defunct East Prussia who, while native to that time Germany, considered himself an East Prussian and refused to acknowledge that Koenigsberg is now Kaliningrad or that his original home town is now Polish rather than German:-)




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