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Give Poland back it's lost land !


Archie Bunker
14 Jan 2017  #31
I fully support the idea that Germany should recover all of its lost territories to the invaders that Frau Merkle let in the country. Germany and its nationalists are too involved in fighting that invasion that they would be unable to protest the restoration of Poland's pre-war borders. In fact, Germans wanting to live in a Christian nation may decide to vote with their feet and restore Poland's historic ethnic German minority.

Opportunity abounds, and it should not be wasted.

I'm sure you will also support the idea that Germany should recover its lost territories in the east as well then...

Crow 137 | 7,632
14 Jan 2017  #32
Only future for Germans is to come back to Slavdom, to their origin, to the ancients. Only that can wash every their sickness, deviation and delusion. Most of today`s Germans are directly Serbs, Poles and Czechs. We need to work with that people.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
15 Jan 2017  #33
To the victor(s) go the spoils. Germany lost WWII, therefore surrendering all lands/territories seized by her during the period of her occupation which promptly ended by War's end in 1945! She signed a treaty of unconditional capitulation to the Allied Forces and thus relinquished any and all "rights" to Prussia along with remaining areas in the East.

What is so difficult to comprehend, people?
TheOther 5 | 3,771
15 Jan 2017  #34
To the victor(s) go the spoils.

Nobody asked the Poles what they wanted. They were sold to Stalin, together with half of the continent. "Liberators of Europe" ... NOT.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
16 Jan 2017  #35
Nor the Germans, which is why some people feel that Nuremberg was merely "Siegerjustiz", and nothing else:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,771
16 Jan 2017  #36
The trials were necessary, but that's not when half the continent was handed over to Stalin. That happened in Yalta.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
17 Jan 2017  #37
Historically true, TheOther, only the Yalta Treaty benefited more the US than it did Germany:-) If not for the Marshall Plan, the Morgenthau Proposal would've successfully divyed up the remaining German territory into farm land to be parceled out among the existing Allies!

Sorry. From my perspective, all such claims of return to "former" ownership are a lost battle with no ammo left for a second round.
TheOther 5 | 3,771
17 Jan 2017  #38
Sorry.

Did you misunderstand? I was never for a return of the lost east German territories, nor for a return of the lost eastern Polish territories. That's a recipe for desaster.

the Yalta Treaty benefited more the US than it did Germany

Of course. Just like in WW1, the Americans were late to the party but managed to turn the outcome of both wars into their advantage. Europe became militarily insignificant on the world stage with only two powers left: the USA and the USSR. Wasn't the destruction of the British Empire one of America's primary geopolitical goals?

the Morgenthau Proposal would've successfully divyed up the remaining German territory

Some say, the Morgenthau Plan was set up and implemented to starve the German population to death.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
17 Jan 2017  #39
....as revenge for Coventry and London, more even than for Auschwitz!!
TheOther 5 | 3,771
17 Jan 2017  #40
A genocide as revenge? There goes your moral high ground...
Wincig 2 | 185
17 Jan 2017  #41
Europe became militarily insignificant on the world stage with only two powers left: the USA and the USSR

That's quite normal. Let's not forget that both world wars originated in Europe , and that our continent created both evil totalitarisms, nazism and communism. Quite natural that we got punished for this. That might of course change if the USA creates its own totalitarism of "the third kind", ie Trumpism. They might ultimately be punished for this and Europe will have its revenge :)
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
17 Jan 2017  #42
TheOther, many US citizens at the time believed the fire bombing of Dresden and other German cities was more than justified, considering the Blitz of London etc. The plan to bomb the railway station at Auschwitz and various concentration camps was shelved as "too dangerous".

Hmm, maybe:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,771
17 Jan 2017  #43
That might of course change...

All empires end up on the garbage dump of history one day. Some sooner, some a little later.
Crow 137 | 7,632
17 Jan 2017  #44
Poles, nobody won`t give you back anything. Nobody can`t fight your wars for you. But, if you move, you won`t be alone and abandoned.
Bejma
18 Jan 2017  #45
I don't know about giving it back, but if I was the western Ukraine (Lwów & vicinity in particular) I'd voluntarily re-attach myself to Poland. Russia couldn't do a thing about it. So-called "Ukrainians" there speak better Polish than the Poles (because that's what they are).
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
18 Jan 2017  #46
Lwów aka L'viv also changed hands, originally part of the erstwhile Austro-Hungarian Empire, when she was known solely as "Lemberg":-)

At the time, pre-WWI, let's not forget either that much of the city was German-speaking Jewish, who were though also bilingual Polish as well.
Archie Bunker
18 Jan 2017  #47
Ah, yes Galicia, which was known in German as Klein-Polen, which translates exactly as Little Poland in English and accurately describes what it was. No, Lwów was not originally part of the Hapsburg Empire, which claimed it as part of Hungary during the partitions of Poland. No, Lwów was not called Lemburg by the 86% of the city's population, (including many Jews) which spoke Polish as its first language in the1910 census. They called it Lwów, as it was and is a very Polish city.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
19 Jan 2017  #48
As it was explained to me by a former "Lembergerin", a refugee from Austria to Poland in 1938 (and currently ninety-five!!), who spent her adolecence in Lwów, was that German was the mother tongue of fellow Viennese-Jewish refugees, while Polish was the official language of all residents of the city, not even Yiddish among the native-born Jews:-)
Archie Bunker
19 Jan 2017  #49
There may very well have been Jewish immigrants from German speaking countries, since Poland had always been a haven for the Jews from Germanic anti-Semitism. However, according to the 1910 Census, 86% of Lwów's population spoke Polish, and 11% spoke a Ruthenian language as a first language. So, by the math, 3% or less of the population spoke German, or another language.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
19 Jan 2017  #50
If you spoke Ruthenian as a mother tongue, may I therefore assume you are a Huzul by birth?

MODS: Apologize once more if the query is ever so slightly "off topic"!
:-)))
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
19 Jan 2017  #51
Skimmed post too quickly. I misread your message.
Just ignore:-)
Archie Bunker
19 Jan 2017  #52
Ruthenian relates to Kievan Rus, the people, the languages, etc.. Modern linguists consider that there were several Ruthenian languages listed as such in the 1910 Galician census under one heading. At this time, ethnicity and nationality were determined by a legitimate child's father, not his or her mother. The mother's native tongue was not considered important. If the queen had balls, wouldn't she be the king?
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
19 Jan 2017  #53
I wasn't aware of that, Archie Bunker. Thanks:-)
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
20 Jan 2017  #54
I met an elderly gentleman the other day who hailed from the former Rastenburg (Polish ??? I can't recall it at the moment), in the now long-defunct East Prussia who, while native to that time Germany, considered himself an East Prussian and refused to acknowledge that Koenigsberg is now Kaliningrad or that his original home town is now Polish rather than German:-)
Vlad1234 14 | 572
29 Nov 2018  #55
Merged:

The reasons behind Rzeczpospolita I decline



Could Rzeczpospolita I preserve all this territory? Would be it worth of? Why did it lost it and even disappeared completely?

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traktaty_welawsko-bydgoskie
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojna_polsko-rosyjska_(1654-1667)
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
29 Nov 2018  #56
Practically every nation-state, country or region has undergone at least some form of territorial loss in addition to gain.
Why bother decrying a phenomenon which is as old, not to mention as natural, as human history itself?
Crow 137 | 7,632
30 Nov 2018  #57
Before World war 2, Poland controlled large parts of Eastern Ukraine, Belarus and a part of Lithuania

Exactly.

But to reclaim that, official Poland have to have sane policy. And what policy official Poland have? Insane, that`s what. Insane, dishonest, untrustworthy, stupid, anti-Polish, politically dis-balanced, unrealistic, isolationist.

Plus, you better worry that those who today partitioning Serbia, tomorrow don`t start another partition of Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,767
30 Nov 2018  #58
But to reclaim that, official Poland have to have sane policy.

What would the big slavic brother Russia say when Poland moves it's borders further East, far into Moscows sphere of influence?
Crow 137 | 7,632
30 Nov 2018  #59
In situation when official Poland have policy that irritates Russia and openly sides with non-Slavs who threatening Russia, respond of Russia won`t be good.

But that is exactly what Duda and those behind him want. To put Poland on the path of military conflict with Russia.

Why Poland can`t have honest policy is behind my comprehension? Why Poland isn`t able to openly confirm when Russia is right and, same way openly to criticize Russia when Russia isn`t right??? Only explanation is that Poland isn`t independent country and that some other forces, why not tell it, from the west of Europe, rule Poland from behind the curtain. So Poland isn`t able to have normal policy. Today, its a rogue country. Very sad.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
30 Nov 2018  #60
By the same token most of Hungary at the time of WWI lost at least half to more of her present territory to Romania as part of the conditions of the Trianon Treaty.

Lots of Hungarians are still grousing over it as we speak!


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