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For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars?


Ironside 47 | 9,571
22 Mar 2013  #61
Maybe in 20/30 years the country can take over a more prominent role in Europe, but not now.

well you need to start somewhere, problem of Poland is that the country has great potential but it cannot be realized due to Soviet elite ruling her.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
22 Mar 2013  #62
If you've ever lived in Europe, you would know that most people in the west still equate Poland with Romania or Bulgaria

An outdated stereotype still lingering in uneducated mind of the western masses.

At the moment, the country is a provider of cheap and educated labor for the economic powerhouses of the world, and as such it has no economic or political punch whatsoever.

Even if that's the only view you have of Poland than can you imagine the impact that would have if the powerhouses ever restricted their labor market and force the migrants back in order to please the popular view of their individual citizens? In a short term, a knockout.

Meathead said Poland should show some leadership, but leading whom if no one really cares what you have to say or doesn't take you serious?

Whatever the outcome of Cyprus that absolute leadership of Europe you take so much pride in and brag of will seriously be undermine and that's just the beginning of their troubles, further erosion will most likely fallow.

Maybe in 20/30 years the country can take over a more prominent role in Europe, but not now.

Sooner than you expect but keep holding on to your outdated stereotypes if it makes you feel better of yourself.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
22 Mar 2013  #63
problem of Poland is that the country has great potential but it cannot be realized due to Soviet elite ruling her.

Sooner or later, the old commies will die off and many of the Poles who currently work abroad will return home with fresh ideas and money. I believe that that's the time when Poland will change significantly and have the chance to show its real potential. Hopefully...

Sooner than you expect but keep holding on to your outdated stereotypes if it makes you feel better of yourself.

Well, wishful thinking doesn't really help, does it? The reality is that economically and politically, Poland is (currently) not important in Europe or on the world stage. Why claim something else? It takes time to change that.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
22 Mar 2013  #64
Sooner or later, the old commies will die

It is not about individuals but about a system they put in place and they have after all children ready to step into their shoes.

I think that is not about time but about a must to get rid off the Soviet elite to end their exploitation of Poland.
Marek11111 9 | 817
22 Mar 2013  #65
"For what the Germans owe us one trillion U.S. dollars"

I say the England and France owns Poland that money for giving Poland false sense of security and bating Germans to start war and U.S. for selling out Poland to Soviets.
Harry
22 Mar 2013  #66
I say the England and France owns Poland that money for giving Poland false sense of security and bating Germans to start war

OK, as usual, I'll now ask you to go into detail about what more Britain could have done in September 1939 and you will either not respond at all or (more probably) respond only with insults.

U.S. for selling out Poland to Soviets.

How much did the USA get for selling Poland to the Soviets.
And how much does Ukraine get from Poland for Poland selling independent Ukraine to the Soviets? We know how much Poland wanted for selling independent Ukraine to the Soviets, the treaty of Riga tells us exactly how much.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
22 Mar 2013  #67
It is not about individuals but about a system they put in place and they have after all children ready to step into their shoes.

IMO, it's up the the Polish voter to destroy such a system of cronyism in elections.
johnny reb 16 | 3,376
3 Aug 2017  #68
As the EU takes Poland to court let's get real.
It's past over due for Germany to make it right with Poland.
Arakadiusz Mularczyk, a lawmaker with the ruling Law and Justice party, said Wednesday the Polish parliament's research office is preparing an analysis of whether to make the claim and will have it ready by August 11.

Defense Minister Antoni Macierewicz said a day earlier that Germans should now "try and pay back the terrible debt they owe to the Polish people."

World War II, which began with the German invasion of Poland in 1939, killed nearly 6 million Polish citizens and wrought huge material loss on the country, including the near destruction of Warsaw.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
3 Aug 2017  #69
It's past over due for Germany to make it right with Poland.

Poland and Germany settled that issue in 1954.
mafketis 17 | 6,870
3 Aug 2017  #70
This must be JK's idea. He's a bad faith bargainer (the first PiS governmnet eventually failed because he ran out of partners to break deals with).

This makes Poland look like a bad faith bargainer.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
4 Aug 2017  #71
This makes Poland look like a bad faith bargainer.

If they really insist that the Polish government of the 1950's wasn't legit because it was controlled by the Soviets, then the Germans could turn that argument around and claim the same for the GDR. All agreements null and void? Impossible. Kaczyński is an idiot.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
4 Aug 2017  #72
Poland and Germany settled that issue in 1954.

Not really. If I remember correctly Germany never had paid any compensation to Poland. Nothing to do with legit or not gov.
Anyhow If I wanted to make that argument I would actually argue that any agreement (don't know if there were any) with EAST Germany state is no legit because that state wasn't representing Germany. So even IF Poland didn't wanted composition from EG state it doesn't by extension means that Poland doesn't want said recompense from the German state.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
4 Aug 2017  #73
The East Germans agreed to give the former German territories in the east to Poland. In exchange, Poland agreed to waive its right to war reparations. Well, in both cases the Soviets did it, of course, but that's only a formality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_reparations#Poland

What this means is essentially that Poland would have to return all ex German lands first before it could demand war reparations. Who wants that? Neither Germany nor Poland or any other party involved. Kaczyński came up with this stuff again because Poland is currently under fire regarding the migrants. He did that before when some Germans demanded compensation for their lost property in the east. It's about retaliation and nothing else. Dangerous game he's playing.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,358
4 Aug 2017  #74
Poland and Germany settled that issue in 1954.

As I hear in the news, no document for that exists and the only basis for that claim was a short note in Neues Deutschland (the Communist Party official paper) back in the 1950s.

To be honest, it's impossible to distinguish between fact and propaganda concerning this issue at the moment. It is too early for that, no legal research has been done both on the Polish or on the German side yet.

The Polish side raises the fact that Germany paid France and yet another country (I have forgotten which) the war reparations as recently as in 2010.for damage inflicted in the ... First World War! I am not able to verify this news, however.
johnny reb 16 | 3,376
4 Aug 2017  #75
the war reparations

Has anyone ever arrived at the amount of all the natural resources that Germany stole from Poland ?
ie: Minerals, metals, gold, timber, ect.)
I read somewhere that it was an atrocious amount.
And can an amount be set on the irreplaceable destruction, pain, suffering and loss of life for generations that followed ?
Crow 143 | 7,502
4 Aug 2017  #76
Take them money. Not one trillion. Many trillions. Milk them until they are dry as old w***e.
johnny reb 16 | 3,376
4 Aug 2017  #77
I agree Crow.
Poland won the war, Germany lost the war and look who's economy and standard of living is thriving.
Something just ain't right here when it comes to redistribution of wealth.
Seems the winner should have the biggest and best and not the loser.
Crow 143 | 7,502
4 Aug 2017  #78
Yes, that is anyway Polish money. Stolen for many centuries from Poles.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
4 Aug 2017  #79
it's impossible to distinguish between fact and propaganda concerning this issue at the moment

I agree. In my opinion, this is just another attempt by Kaczyński to create distrust between the two nations. Who knows, maybe it's even the US administration and the British government who are behind all this - trying to break up the EU. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
jon357 64 | 14,382
4 Aug 2017  #80
I agree. In my opinion, this is just another attempt by Kaczyński to create distrust between the two nations.

It's not so much about Germany, more about getting people (his potential supporters) worked up into a rage in Poland.
gregy741 4 | 1,207
4 Aug 2017  #81
return all ex German lands first before it could demand war reparations

german land incorporated into Poland was to compensate land Poland lost in the east to Russia.
basically,Stalin demanded territorial gain at the expense of Germany. since Poland was between those 2 countries,Stalin and others in Yalta conference agreed to move Poland westwards.giving russia Polish land in the east and compensating Poland with German territories.

this cant be used as war reparations.if Poland would have to give away former german land in order to recive reparation-as you suggest,then what about polish land in the east we lost?
mafketis 17 | 6,870
4 Aug 2017  #82
more about getting people (his potential supporters) worked up into a rage in Poland

Almost everything JK does is intended to keep his supporters in a worked-up angry state. He's like an anti-diplomat, seeking to stoke up mutual dislike and distrust everywhere he goes, what a nasty, little man.

Take them money. Not one trillion. Many trillions. Milk them until they are dry as old w***e

And that's the mentality that keeps Srbija an insignificant little crap-hole in the middle of nowhere.
gregy741 4 | 1,207
4 Aug 2017  #83
Almost everything JK does is intended to keep his supporters in a worked-up angry state

provide evidence that it was JK idea or shut you mug
jon357 64 | 14,382
4 Aug 2017  #84
provide evidence that it was JK

Umm, he's the leader of the ruling party you mug
Tacitus 2 | 862
4 Aug 2017  #85
@Ziemowit

It is too early for that, no legal research has been done both on the Polish or on the German side yet.

I have recently written a university paper about the Oder-Neisse-line and from what I have remembered, the issue of reparations is legally closed. The arguments are as such:

1. Article IV. of the Potsdam Protocol deals with the issue of reparations, there is a passage regarding Poland:

"The U. S. S. R. undertakes to settle the reparation claims of Poland from its own share of reparations."

The SU took huge parts of the German industry, money and natural ressources as reparations. I don't know how much ended up in Poland, but that would be up to the SU. It is worth pointing out that until the border treaty between Germany and Poland in 1991, Poland insisted that the Potsdam Protocol was absolute (because it wanted the Oder-Neisse-line to be final).

2. Poland agreed to wave its' rights to reparations with the GDR. The fact that neither country was a democracy is from a legal point of view completely inconsequential, otherwise it would be impossible to get legal agreements with non-democracy. It is also completely inconsequential if those treaties were signed under outside pressure, because then peace treaties would of course also become in general not binding. So JK's argument is completely ridiculous.

3. Germany and Poland agreed to solve the issue permanently during the negotiations for the border-treaty in 1991. Germany created a foundation that paid out several bns to Polish victims of the war.

Besides, it is not really in Poland's interest to open this can of worms. Because then those Germans who were expelled could demand reparations for their lost property (the Potsdam agreement that legally allowed those expulsions would become non-binding due to Poland's insistence) and there is also the issue of looted art (the Berlinka collection for example) which Berlin has so far not pressed because of respect to Polish sensitives, but would also become open to discussion.

this cant be used as war reparations.if Poland would have to give away former german land in order to recive reparation-as you suggest,then what about polish land in the east we lost?

That would be an issue you would have to discuss with Russia. However regarding Germany, the intent of the Potsdam Agreement was very clear. Poland would receive German land and property and additionally whatever the SU would deem suitable from their part of the reparations. There is no additional claim here. And strictly speaking, the German territory was far more valuable (in terms of ressources and industry) than the part lost in the East.
gregy741 4 | 1,207
4 Aug 2017  #86
some muslim,jew,one faggot and one kodorast idiot ,few brits are debating here what Poland should or should not receive as compensation..lol
funny tho,how in every thread here in polish forum the smae guys are united to every idea that is harmful to Polands interests.or trash every idea that it could benefit Poland..whats your agenda here twats?you think its hard to see it?you filthy antypolish bias is too clear to see

Poland has never receive any war reparation from Germany and Poland is the country that deserved it most.and your shi.ty ignorant pseudo analysis of few halfwits such us jon357 is pathetic

Because then those Germans who were expelled could demand reparations for their lost property

how bout lost property of polish people in Lwow and Wilno?beside germans were expelled by decision made in Yalta..poland was against implementing border changes after war , so we not responsible
jon357 64 | 14,382
4 Aug 2017  #87
or trash every idea that it could benefit Poland

In what way could sending an unenforceable bill seventy years after the war for $1,000,000,000,000 (a third of their GBP) to Poland's biggest trading partner "benefit Poland"?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,824
4 Aug 2017  #88
It certainly would benefit Russia, which explains why gregy is pushing the idea so strongly.

As I hear in the news, no document for that exists and the only basis for that claim was a short note in Neues Deutschland (the Communist Party official paper) back in the 1950s.

It seems to me that the whole thing is a simple diversion to take attention away from the fact that Poland is now heading into dangerous territory with the EU.
Tacitus 2 | 862
4 Aug 2017  #89
how bout lost property of polish people in Lwow and Wilno

That would be an issue e.g. between Poland and the Ukraine/Russia, which would have nothing to do withe claims against Germany, or claims Germans would have against Poland.

poland was against implementing border changes after war

This is not true, the people who ended up in charge thanks to Stalin very much supported those. But admittedly in the end it was Stalin who decided what was done

..whats your agenda here twats?

Pointing out that the current Polish government is harming Polish long-term interests. As your language indicates, those who favour the current approach are not guided by logic and have seemingly no understanding for the implications of those decisions. Poland has nothing to gain from those claims, because as pointed out they are legally non-existing.
gregy741 4 | 1,207
4 Aug 2017  #90
But admittedly in the end it was Stalin who decided what was done

thats not true..Poland was present at Yalta conference with an observer status.we were allow to lobby.
Poland was lobbying to restore pre war borders.we cant be hold responsible for any german property loss due to implementing this agreement.we were against and we didnt sign.

nonetheless,Poland havent receive war reparations from Germany and german land was to compensate Polands loses in east.in other words,German land incorporate into Poland was to benefit SU not Poland,since it would allow to carve polish east land to Russia


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