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For what the Germans owe Poland one trillion U.S. dollars?


TheOther 5 | 3,749
20 Mar 2013  #31
Do these calculations on quantum include a percentage increase for loss of opportunity arising from these assets being stolen/destroyed, as well as interest?

All this talk about reparations is pure nonsense and helps no one.

Quote: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reparations_for_World_War_II#Poland
"In 2004 the Polish and German governments declared the issue settled."
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
20 Mar 2013  #32
All this talk about reparations is pure nonsense and helps no one.

C'mon bro, you know these types of thought terminating cliches don't work on me. Why don't you point out why it is nonsense and why it doesn't help anyone, then link that to your assertion (assumedly) that there should be no compensation, then we can have a real discussion.

"In 2004 the Polish and German governments declared the issue settled."

But this is just a link from Wikipedia, uncited and anonymous. Why don't you show us the actual terms of settlement?
TheOther 5 | 3,749
20 Mar 2013  #33
Why don't you show us the actual terms of settlement?

Why don't you study the agreements of the Two Plus Four Conference instead? And while you're at it, also read about the 1953 treaty between Poland and the GDR, and the Warsaw Treaty of 1970. WW2 is over, get used to it.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
20 Mar 2013  #34
Fail. Kettle logic. Like I said bro, don't try this type of silliness on me.

WW2 is over, get used to it.

Or in other words, you're just having a dummy spit because you got owned.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170
20 Mar 2013  #35
After WWII Poland was not of one mind, if they were they could have resisted Russian occupation and accepted the Marshall Plan.

Well, let me put it this way... I doubt any serious historian or political scientists would agree with you on this one...
OP monia 3 | 212
20 Mar 2013  #36
Do these calculations on quantum include a percentage increase for loss of opportunity arising from these assets being stolen/destroyed, as well as interest?

In my opinion it was calculated with lost assets , interest , lack of investment opportunities , thats normal when you carry a case to the court , right ? They treated Poland as a slave country , executed people without any reason , women and children . We lost 1/5 of our population . This should be counted as the biggest loss and be compensated , although human life can`t be calculated with money .

Switzerland has kept it's eye on the ball throughout history and looked after itself.

Swiss - the country hidden in the mountains , who wanted them , nobody . Swiss didn`t contemn ( rather their banks ) with stolen gold from Poland , I don`t wonder why they build some roads between mountains earlier than us , for our money .

Up to this day they are mostly rely on mob money , also PZPR money , criminal state , nothing worth to compare with Poland .
Harry
20 Mar 2013  #37
Up to this day they are mostly rely on mob money

Tut tut tut monia, surely you do not think it is a good idea to libel Swiss bankers?
sledz 23 | 2,255
20 Mar 2013  #38
"In 2004 the Polish and German governments declared the issue settled."

And in 2013 it was reopened on Polish Forums,,ROTFL!
......................................
This dispute has been settled by YOUR government 10 years ago, isn't it about time you stop moaning and whining about WWII???

Over the years Ive seen some stupid threads on this forum, but this takes the cake!

You dont deserve anything and are not going to get anything, case closed.

Its called War,,,too bad for the people that had to live through it:(
Why should somebody`s grandchildren get one penny from Germany is laughable.

I want one trillion $ from the Japanese for bombing Pearl Harbor,,,,lol
TheOther 5 | 3,749
20 Mar 2013  #39
Fail. Kettle logic. Like I said bro, don't try this type of silliness on me.

Don't play stupid, man. If you don't understand that it is a waste of time to explain the international obligations of Poland to a bunch of PiS faschos, then you are much more ignorant than I thought.

This dispute has been settled by YOUR government 10 years ago,

You are talking to the wrong guy, sledz. I agree with you 100% - this whole thread is a bad joke.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
20 Mar 2013  #40
I want one trillion $ from the Japanese for bombing Pearl Harbor,,,,lol

I want 100 millions for good stolen by Germans in Poland and stolen again by American army. I'm reasonable dude.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
21 Mar 2013  #41
And in 2013 it was reopened on Polish Forums,,ROTFL!......................................This dispute has been settled by YOUR government 10 years ago, isn't it about time you stop moaning and whining about WWII???Over the years Ive seen some stupid threads on this forum, but this takes the cake!

Calm down bro. No need for hyperbole, capital letters and misplaced uses of punctuation marks. Let's leave emotion at the door and discus these terms of settlement you refer to, okay?

Don't play stupid, man.

Ok bro. If I don't play stupid will you show us a copy of the terms of settlement you refer to?
Meathead 5 | 470
21 Mar 2013  #42
Well, let me put it this way... I doubt any serious historian or political scientists would agree with you on this one..

How was Poland supposed to resist a German or Russian occupation if they were fighting among themselves? In the 1930's Communism had not yet been discredited, people believed that communism was the future. Even up to this day there are still people in Poland who pine for communism, correct? Poland could have accepted the Marshall Plan and distanced themselves from Stalin but not if 20% or 30% of the Polish people believed that communism was the future.
legend 3 | 669
21 Mar 2013  #43
I was just reading on the IraqIran war. Economic loss for that was $500 billion. 500,000-1,500,000 died in that war. Poland lost 2-3 million ethnic Poles plus 3 million Polish Jews in WWII.

Don't play stupid, man. If you don't understand that it is a waste of time to explain the international obligations of Poland to a bunch of PiS faschos, then you are much more ignorant than I thought.

Dont play stupid, man. If you wont understand that is a waste of time to explain the international obligations of Poland to a bunch of Palikot supporters, blah blah blah.
gjene 13 | 197
21 Mar 2013  #44
Poland could have resisted communism if its military did not suffer mass execution of its officers at Katyn in 1940. The British and the Americans were in on the conspiracy to cover up the truth for fear of offending a bunch of liars. If the military officers were not executed the morale for the army would have a lot higher and maybe the Polish would have accepted the Marshall plan.

As for communism, my grandparents got the h*** out since they knew what was coming in regards to communism. Meathead, you should do a little more research in regards to what the NKVD did prior to the 2nd world war and for almost 10 years after in regards to agriculture. There was a huge decline in production because the government didnt want the ordinary person being able to own property and replaced people that knew what they were doing when it came to farming with people who knew absolutely nothing. So, in fact when you compare figures like that from Germany and Russia, I think Russia owes the Polish people a lot more than just a monetary amount. It was the livelihood of a lot of people and the families communism destroyed and to top it off, the mistrust. One good thing was the prison system. Over here in the U.S. and Canada, the criminals hae it far to easy and know how to use the system to get ahead. Under communist rule as a criminal you didnt get very far and chances r u didnt live long.
Meathead 5 | 470
21 Mar 2013  #45
Poland still had armies during the 1940's after Katyn. After the war it wasn't just Pole vs Russian, it was also Pole vs Pole. That's why many polish army and air force personnel never returned to Poland, they feared a knife in the back from their countrymen as illustrated with the link about "Inka". Not all Polish people acquiesced to communism, probably not the majority but enough to prevent a Polish uprising. That's my whole point, Poles were not of one mind.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170
21 Mar 2013  #46
How was Poland supposed to resist a German or Russian occupation if they were fighting among themselves?

Poland could have resisted communism if its military did not suffer mass execution of its officers at Katyn in 1940.

You guys clearly have no clue how the take over of Poland by communists took place and what was the position of average Joe in these events.
grubas 12 | 1,392
21 Mar 2013  #47
They don't.For instance all key positions in Polish army in the East were held by Soviets dressed up in Polish uniforms.Marshall Konstantin Rokossowski was even Poland's Minister of Defence.
sledz 23 | 2,255
21 Mar 2013  #48
You are talking to the wrong guy, sledz. I agree with you 100% - this whole thread is a bad joke.

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you.
I tried to separate it with the ............. line.

Let's leave emotion at the door and discus these terms of settlement you refer to, okay?

Thats cool, Ill be quiet and let the people that live in Poland worry about it.
Its still seems silly complaining about stuff that happened almost a century ago.

Its sounds like the same thing as reparations for slavery.

I want 100 millions for good stolen by Germans in Poland and stolen again by American army.
I'm reasonable dude.

Check is in the mail...lol
Wroclaw Boy
21 Mar 2013  #49
Its still seems silly complaining about stuff that happened almost a century ago.

Says the poster still moaning about Brits colonising the US over 200 years ago.
OP monia 3 | 212
21 Mar 2013  #50
They don't.For instance all key positions in Polish army in the East were held by Soviets dressed up in Polish uniforms.Marshall Konstantin Rokossowski was even Poland's Minister of Defence.

That`s correct . There were no high ranking personel in the Army consisted of Polish nationals at that time . So , Soviets decided on all important matters . Polish people were reduced to perform administrative duties . If there were Polish people in higher positions they were Polish Jews . For example Berman , a man with a blood on his hands . Soviets knew from their own experience that they were easier to be controled than Poles .

So , how can anyone say that Poland decided on something . In the 50 -ies when the communism was deeply rooted in Polish reality they started to nominate Polish citizens as high ranking personel . That`s the story of our independence . Also you should all know that the changes 1989 were just another deception of Polish people . Post commies came into power , just another people . The whole party called Unia Demokratyczna was a scam , it consisted of mostly Polish Jews who were communists earlier but few Polish people knew those facts . Geremek was the biggests biggot , w member of the communist party at The Warsaw University , despicable personality who said that he hated Poles in an interview with a journalist Hanna Krall , you can find it in the internet , easy to find.

I can`t see any changes on the horizon . There are no people who can change the situation . You need to have some serious sponsors to promote new faces on the political scene , but no one wants to risk their money . So the same post commune , dyed foxes ( as we say in Polish ) are at the crib.
Harry
21 Mar 2013  #51
If there were Polish people in higher positions they were Polish Jews .

Such as Bierut, Gomułka, Osóbka-Morawski and Mikolajczyk? Oh, sorry, I forgot that none of the post-war President, PM or vice PMs were Jewish. So why do you lie to us and claim that they were Jewish?
Ironside 47 | 9,571
22 Mar 2013  #52
Bierut,

He wasn't Polish but Soviet.

Gomułka, Osóbka-Morawsk

both traitors

Mikolajczyk

What Mikolaczyk has do do with anything - he was just a stooge for a year or so and then had to run.

Oh, sorry, I forgot that none of the post-war President, PM or vice PMs were Jewish.

None? lol

That`s correct

What are talking about? I mean what the difference whether they were of Jewish extraction or not. Those who have been working for Soviets in Poland regardless of their ethnic roots were/are just traitors.

That all that matters. Majority of traitors were ethnic Poles from villages and from the gutters. lol
Harry
22 Mar 2013  #53
Harry: Bierut,
He wasn't Polish but Soviet.

Born in Poland to Polish parents and lived most of his life in Poland: he was Polish.

both traitors

Yes, but the point is that they were gentile Polish traitors and not Jews (as monia claimed).

What Mikolaczyk has do do with anything - he was just a stooge for a year or so and then had to run.

Leaving aside your rather offensive statements about a man who risked everything to try to build a democratic post-war Poland, the point here is that he was a gentile Polish politician and not a Jew (as monia claimed).

Oh, sorry, I forgot that none of the post-war President, PM or vice PMs were Jewish.
None? lol

None of the ones in the Provisional Government of National Unity, despite monia's claims to the contrary.

Majority of traitors were ethnic Poles from villages and from the gutters.

That would be because villages were where most people in post-war Poland were from.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170
22 Mar 2013  #54
Of course it is fault of Germans and Russians because they murdered and killed our elite and during soviet occupation cultivated new soviet elite.

OK in some way yes... but what would you think If an Ukrainian was saying that his country is in so bad situation because their elites were first Polonized and Russificized for centuries and then murdered by the Soviets ? That's true but sounds like an excuse... Sovietization of Poland was never truly successful, there were many well qualified and non-Sovietized people in the 90's and anyway we made terrible mistakes, what's more we're still making them... just look what the red haired fecker is doing... and people let it happen. It's time to admit that we're getting ourselves into shyt, that should be the first step, without that, It's hard to change anything.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
22 Mar 2013  #55
Born in Poland to Polish parents and lived most of his life in Poland: he was Polish.

Born on territories under Russian Rule, hard to say whether his patents were Polish or Russian. In Poland he lived as a free man about six years in total. Plus ten years in Polish prison. Soviet agent and communist - hardly Polish.

OK in some way yes... but what would you think If an Ukrainian

What are you even talking about? Ukrainians are on the verge of becoming a nation so far they are just ethnicity.

because their elites were first Polonized and Russificized for centuries and then murdered by the Soviets

I would say BS cause it is BS find another example if you can.

Sovietization of Poland was never truly successful,

In Poland there is group of people in prominent position and in finesses and business who are Soviet grew by Kremlin on the Polish soil. Soviet -isation doesn't have to be 100% when there is no counterweight to those people.

, there were many well qualified and non-Sovietized people in the 90's and anyway we made terrible mistakes

How do you know who was and who wasn't Soviet -Pole.

what's more we're still making them... just look what the red haired fecker is doing... and people let it happen

Mistakes? What mistakes? Do you think that all is just huge coincidence? Nope - there are people who have money organization influences and knowledge how to use it. Who there is to stop it? Few amateurs with notebooks?

and people let it happen.

sure they do in the adverse circumstances ruled by soviets and their cronies with money and mass media. People need to organize themselves and step up to their duties but first need to realize what what.
Ktos 17 | 461
22 Mar 2013  #56
Wow! here is a case of genuine claim to payment yeah germans owe us but so far it is them profiting from us not the other aroundddd. That hurst, what can we do about it? Any ideas? By the way, I'M BACK!
Meathead 5 | 470
22 Mar 2013  #57
What can we do about it? Disassociate yourselves from Germany and Russia.

Get out of Euro; charge import dutes and use money to pay off German loans; develop Poland's resources and rebuild your infrastructure with unemployed Poles. Cultivate relations with Switzerland, Scandinavian countries, England, countries outside the Eurozone. Poland should show some leadership and quit being Germany's poodle.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
22 Mar 2013  #58
Poland should show some leadership and quit being Germany's poodle.

You completely overestimate the importance of Poland (economically and politically) within Europe.

here is a case of genuine claim to payment

You mean 'outlandish claim' - made by some nutjob politicians in Poland.
Ironside 47 | 9,571
22 Mar 2013  #59
You completely overestimate the importance of Poland (economically and politically) within Europe.

and you completely underestimate it.
TheOther 5 | 3,749
22 Mar 2013  #60
Maybe a little bit, but you tell me in what field I underestimate Poland. If you've ever lived in Europe, you would know that most people in the west still equate Poland with Romania or Bulgaria, and not with Spain or Italy (and definitely not with Britain, France or Germany). At the moment, the country is a provider of cheap and educated labor for the economic powerhouses of the world, and as such it has no economic or political punch whatsoever. Meathead said Poland should show some leadership, but leading whom if no one really cares what you have to say or doesn't take you serious? Give Poland some time. Maybe in 20/30 years the country can take over a more prominent role in Europe, but not now.


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