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What connects Poland with Vlad Impaler or to say Vlad Tepes or simple Dracula


Crow 146 | 7,594    
1 Jul 2009  #1
What connects Poland and the Dracula?

What you think Poles?

Well, on the first place those are Serbians. They created Sacred Order of The Dragon (Ordo Draconis), their nobleman Voivode Miloš Obilić with twelwe Serbian knights, commanders of famous winged Serbian light cavalry which in Hungary and Poland was introduced as Racowie in time of Polish King Władyslaw Jagiello, Zawisha Czarny of Garbow, Wladislav Warnechyk of Varna and Serbian hero Sibinjanin Janko (in Hungary remembered as Janos Hunyadi).

But, what else or to say who else connects Poland with Vlad Tepes called Impaler? That is Jan Sobieski himself. Yes, King Sobieski was Grand Master of Draconists in his time and that way connected with Walachia of Vlad Impaler.

The Sovereign Imperial Roman Order of the Dragon
imperialclub.net/orderofthedragon.htm

The famous Polish King, Jan Sobieski, the architect behind the great Turkish defeat at the gates of Vienna, also served as Grand Master between 1657 and 1696. As Hungary and Transylvania crumbled beneath the weight of the Turkish onslaught, many members of the Dragon Order fell in battle and the orientation of the surviving knights drifted further eastward. With the death of Jan Sobieski, leadership passed to Prince Dmitri Cantemir, the Despot of Moldavia

true Sarmat Milos Obilic foundator of Draconists

Serbian knight Voivode Milos Obilic - the original founder of the Dragon Order

Vlad Impaler - Dracula

Vlad Tepes ruler of Walachia - member of the Dragon Order

famous Polish King Jan Sobieski Grand master of Dragon Order

Is the British royal family related to Vlad the Impaler's family?
uk.answers.yahoo/question/index?qid=20090120111934AA4IcNJ

Order of the Dragon symbol

A sign of this support was the fact that in 1431 Vlad II was inducted into the [b]Order of the Dragon ("Societas Draconis" in Latin), along with the rulers of Poland and Serbia.[/b] The purpose of the Order was to protect Eastern Europe and the Holy Roman Empire from Islamic expansion as embodied in the campaigns of the Ottoman Empire. Wishing to assert his status, Vlad II displayed the symbol of the Order, a dragon, in all public appearances, (on flags, clothing, etc.)

southern 76 | 7,108    
1 Jul 2009  #2
with Vlad Tepes

If I remember well,Vlad was a great friend of turkish nation.
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
1 Jul 2009  #3
yes, sure.. because of his great admiration to Turks he got name Impaler ;)
southern 76 | 7,108    
1 Jul 2009  #4
Yes,after meeting him Turks acquired a third leg.

This guy was an artist.
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
1 Jul 2009  #5
artist

more like a vampire

war with Turks wasn`t joke for this man. He was serious

ah, those were the days
wildrover 98 | 4,457    
9 Mar 2010  #6
Ah good old Vlad the impaler...he certainly knew how to entertain people

Silly Turks misunderstood when he invited them to come over and meet some Poles and have them up their ass....!
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
9 Mar 2010  #7
Ah good old Vlad the impaler...he certainly knew how to entertain people

yes

Relax

moments of Vlad`s relaxation

Silly Turks misunderstood when he invited them

Turks and Vlad

soon after Turks were `served`. [Vlad had special treatment for invaders]

Vlad Tepes

hey, look what i founded...

Is it Putin?

Putin as Vlad

he, he...
SeanBM 35 | 5,817    
9 Mar 2010  #8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula - Dracula is an 1897 novel by Irish author Bram Stoker
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
9 Mar 2010  #9
yes, rumors of Vlad`s deeds reached Ireland

How i see situation, Brits are Turks of British and Irish islands. Did someone impaled them from time to time?
SeanBM 35 | 5,817    
9 Mar 2010  #10
yes, rumors of Vlad`s deeds reached Ireland

Bram Stoker traveled through Romania by train, I believe.

Did someone impaled them from time to time?

The British used to impale Irish people in Ireland.
Harry    
9 Mar 2010  #11
ah, those were the days

You mean the days when mass murder of civilians was considered perfectly acceptable? What a surprise to see a Serb being nostalgic about those days. Sadly for you, the rest of Europe has moved on and now only one country in Europe thinks that genocide is OK: which explains why your foul homeland is the continent's pariah nation.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,866    
10 Mar 2010  #12
Silly Turks misunderstood when he invited them to come over and meet some Poles and have them up their ass....!

Quality!
king polkakamon - | 546    
10 Mar 2010  #13
that Vlad`s methods were, to say that way, a little bit brutal.

Yes,a little bit for sure they were.Hopefully Cossaks and Tigers applied some more humanistic methods,is that right?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,392    
13 Mar 2010  #14
vt

Vlad what you call a 'proto FreeMason'...He was a 'law and order' guy...Make 'order out of chaos'.

Vlad's Methodology

More than anything else the historical Dracula is known for his inhuman cruelty. Impalement was Vlad III’s preferred method of torture and execution. Impalement was and is one of the most gruesome ways of dying imaginable, as it was typically slow and painful.

Vlad usually had a horse attached to each of the victim’s legs and a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp, else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Normally the stake was inserted into the body through the buttocks and was often forced through the body until it emerged from the mouth. However, there were many instances where victims were impaled through other body orifices or through the abdomen or chest. Infants were sometimes impaled on the stake forced through their mother’s chests. The records indicate that victims were sometimes impaled so that they hung upside down on the stake.

Darun 1 | 55    
13 Mar 2010  #15
The list of tortures employed by this cruel prince reads like an inventory of hell’s tools: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to wild animals, and burning alive.

Unfortunatelly this is where reality takes a huge turn towards fantasy. Those aren't real. The only method he used was impaling - he wanted a method to not discriminate (in the sens that he wanted a method all men would fear - the method wasn't used only against Ottomans but against any comon criminal as well and against the boyars - boieri (ro). There is a legend about this for which he is much remembered with nostalgy). You mentioned about the merchants of Brasov. The problem was that he wanted the same rights for the merchants from Wallachia in Transylvania as those in Transylvania (Brasov in this case) had in Wallachia. They agreed at the table to met the requirements and give them pass but the Brasov merchants caught the Wallachian caravans and slaughtered them. Vlad got angry and took raids against Brasov and impaled the merchants. From there on, there were a series of letters from the Hungarian and German merchants who circulated across Europe, trying to depict Vlad Tepes as the cruelest man possible, attributing him the most inimaginable of crimes, trying to remove from him the support against the Ottomans so that he will eventually be removed from throne. Those letters were the basis of Bram Stoker's novel. The letters were preserved, and most of them are in Hungary nowadays.
wildrover 98 | 4,457    
13 Mar 2010  #16
Vlad usually had a horse attached to each of the victim’s legs and a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp, else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Normally the stake was inserted into the body through the buttocks and was often forced through the body until it emerged from the mouth. However, there were many instances where victims were impaled through other body orifices or through the abdomen or chest. Infants were sometimes impaled on the stake forced through their mother’s chests. The records indicate that victims were sometimes impaled so that they hung upside down on the stake.

I have seen worse happen on a friday night in Leeds...
joepilsudski 26 | 1,392    
13 Mar 2010  #17
Unfortunatelly this is where reality takes a huge turn towards fantasy. Those aren't real. The only method he used was impaling

Yes, perhaps...History is exaggerated many times...However, I find the method of sticking a sharpened stake in a person's rectum, pushing it through the body and out the mouth, while the person was still alive, to be the mark of quite a, let us say, 'singular' man.
Darun 1 | 55    
13 Mar 2010  #18
I understand what you meant. But the impaling was quite a common punishment in middle ages, accros all Europe, not just these parts (it is very cruel and inimaginable today, but it was quite often used those days). What made him unique is that he used it exclusevely, being the only punishment used no matter the crime(from here my statement above). And the fact that no one else impaled entire armies of Ottomans...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
13 Mar 2010  #19
But the impaling was quite a common punishment in middle ages, accros all Europe,

Erm...I doubt that very much!
Not in Central or North or Western Europe!!! *yuck*
Darun 1 | 55    
13 Mar 2010  #20
Not in Central or North or Western Europe!!! *yuck*

Western Europe is no saint during Middle Ages, no part of Europe or the world is. They aren't called Dark Ages for nothing. The countries where impaling was used the most were Spain and France during the Inquisition.

I am no fan of wiki but: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement

I will try to find at least somewhat more reliable sources for this, should you wish. I don't usually rely on Internet for documentation.
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
27 Mar 2010  #21
king polkagamon: I can imagine how Arkhan\'s tiger became when it ate enough.

rumors say that name of Arkan`s tiger was Vlad
king polkagamon    
27 Mar 2010  #22
Vlad the Impaler?
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
27 Mar 2010  #23
Vlad the Impaler?

no.

Vlad muja slayer

Turks (Islamization) or Germans (Germanization), it was all the same to Dracula. For Vlad The Impaler, they were invaders onto Slavic world and Vlad granted them with cruelty. They were plague, Vlad was cure. They wanted chaos, Vlad gave them order, order of the Dragon

... as it was written in ancient manuscripts, Sarmatian slogan dedicated to the strength of the Dragons (Dragon symbol was often battle standard and insignia for old Sarmatians- true native European and our Proto Slavic ancestors):

FROM THE CHAOS

THERE IS ORDER.

FROM THE ORDER

THERE IS THE DRAGON.

WITH THE DRAGON

THERE IS VICTORY.

HAIL DRAGON! HAIL VICTORY!


Milos Obilic

Serbian Voivode Milos Obilic, founder of the Dragon Order- artistic presentation

Vlad's Interesting yet Educational Page
Vlad the Prince of Wallachia


hamsterrepublic.com/html/vladhistory.html

two fragments:

Dracul was a member of The Order of the Dragon (a position from which he derived his surname).

Vlad Dracolya was not a good or kind prince. He had a terrifying habit of repeatedly raiding certain towns in his territory, and murdering great numbers of people. For reasons unknown, the towns selected for these meaninglessattacks where often those towns who's populations had largly German ancestory. ...

Order

SLAVIC GIFT TO CHRISTIANITY AND EUROPE - ORDER OF THE DRAGON - GALLERY OF DRAGON ORDER IMMORTALS/list isn`t complete/

First Draconist, fonder of the Dragon Order, Serbian Milos Obilic Captain Knight and Voivode

Sigismund

Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor, Grand Master that reorganized Order after fall of medieval Serbia under Turkish occupation

Jan Sobieski

Polish King Jan Sobieski, Grand Master of Dragon Order

Dimitrie Cantemir

Prince of Moldavia Dimitrie Cantemir, Grand Master of Dragon Order

Serbian Despod Stefan Lazarevic

King Ladislas II Jagiello of Poland, Knight of the Dragon Order

Lithuania

Grand Duke Vitold of Lithauania, Knight of the Dragon Order

Russian Tzar Ivan the Great

Gran Duke of Russia and High Protector of Dragon Order Russian Tzar Ivan the Great

Cardinal Andrew Bathory, Grand Master of Dragon Order

Spain

Spanish King Alfonso V of Aragon, Knight of the Dragon Order

Denmark

King of Denmark Christopher III of Bavaria, Knight of the Dragon Order

Austria

Duke Ernst of Austria, Knight of the Dragon Order

Norfolk

Thomas Howard, Duke of Norfolk, Knight of the Dragon Order

Austria

King of Germany Albert von Habsburg, Knight of the Dragon Order

Vlad tepes

Vlad II Tepes, Prince of Wallachia, Knight of the Dragon Order

Serbian Knight Toplica Milan, Knight of the Dragon Order /killed in Kosovo battle (Serbs vs. Turks) in 1389/

Serbian Knight Kosancic Ivan, Knight of the Dragon Order /killed in Kosovo battle (Serbs vs. Turks) in 1389/

Janko od Sibinja

Hungarian nobleman of Serbian origin Sibinjanin Janko (Janko od Sibinja), known as János Hunyadi, Grand Master of Dragon Order

Serbian Knight Pavle Orlović, Knight of the Dragon Order, heroically died during Kosovo battle (Serbs vs. Turks) in 1389 as bearer of Serbian battle standard
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
28 Mar 2010  #24
Slavs have divided Europe and we see it in historical battles amongst Russia, Poland and Ukraine in the north and Yugoslavia in the south. Yes, the West played a role too but you can't change the internal characteristics of wild people so easily.
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
28 Mar 2010  #25
i beg your pardon?
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
28 Mar 2010  #26
The Wars of Independence in Yugoslavia were largely Slavic internal affairs, Crow. Allegiances were strained and friendships ruined over divided loyalty between Yugoslavia and ethnic kin.

As for Poland, Ukraine and Russia, all 3 constantly harp back to past wounds and differences. This is not a revelation, Crow, it's just fact. My wife thinks many Russians are 'dziki' (wild) and I'm sure similar sentiments are felt between Poles and Ukrainians.

A few lessons in conflict avoidance wouldn't have gone amiss. Celts too.
Darun 1 | 55    
28 Mar 2010  #27
Crow, I really like Slavic people and some countries more than others (from the ones with Slavic heritage) but I would really appreciate if you could point out everything you want about the slavs in a different topic. I know it is your topic and you have all the right to write about everything you want, but don't get Vlad Tepes into your Slavic dream. It doesn't fit. The only connection we have is the christian religion and the fight against ottomans, but he was no Slav.

If you want to champion the fight for the christian values against the ottomans, be my guest, but don't champion any Slavic pride with getting people they are clearly not Slavs into your camp.

Much appreciated.
OP Crow 146 | 7,594    
28 Mar 2010  #28
Darun

with all due respect but, you didn`t understand my point

As always, my threads has multiple purposes and analyze things from different angles. In this thread, among else, i present contribution of Slavic world to European and to global civilization. Dragon Order is result of our old Slavic/Sarmatian heritage and we can see here, on obvious example, how Slavs were able to organize something great that passed test of time.

Dragon Order was created by Slavs (particularly by Balkan Serbs) and later accepted by non-Slavs. So, Dragon Order was real Slavic invention that served to Slavic cause (considering that Slavs were first target of Ottoman Turkish invasion on Europe); then, served to Christianity because defended Christians oppressed and attacked by Islamic Turks and then also Dragon Order defended European civilization that was assaulted by non-Europeans.

As for Vlad Tepes- Dracula, his origin is questionable. He was probably Slavic but his ethnicity isn`t even important here. Vlad The Impaler wasn`t crucial member of Dragon Order but he was most controversial and for sure, conditions with he needed to deal with made him probably most eccentric and extreme member of Dragon Order.

That`s why i, in my above post said... SLAVIC GIFT TO CHRISTIANITY AND EUROPE - ORDER OF THE DRAGON - GALLERY OF DRAGON ORDER IMMORTALS (on the list are Slavs and non-Slavs). Let it be known, we- the Slavs did it for us, for Christianity and for this Europe, even for humankind... and we did good.
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
28 Mar 2010  #29
How about Croatian Vs Serbian fighting? I saw some horrific pictures from Vuckovar and Knin and I cannot imagine why anyone would do sth like that.

How about Ukrainian brutality against Poles in WWII? There is a Slavic brotherhood, Crow, but largely locked in romanticism. Poles believed Russians were coming to help them against Germany but Katyń should have told them otherwise.

Still, I don't wanna dash hopes and would be happy to meet you to discuss it.
Darun 1 | 55    
28 Mar 2010  #30
I got the point Crow, and I would have actually liked to see a whole thread dedicated to the Order of the Dragon, is quite interesting topic. I just didn't like the fact that you mixed things, Vlad was not a Slav and fought not for the glory of the Slavic world but for Christianity in its whole. Of course at that time the Slavs fought for the same purpose, yet if you want to stress out only the Slavic aspect leave Vlad and Cantemir for that matter out - they were part of the Dragon who was indeed of Slavic heritage, but that's about it, and yes, if you want to look at it like that - in order to revert to the title - that would be the only connection between Vlad and Poland :).

Since we're at it, what happened to the Order? Was it dissmantled, was it kept alive up to our days or what?



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