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Poland's 1945 - 1989 under communism or during socialism?


Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,961
26 Apr 2011 #61
Poland was a socialist state.

That's what the commies wanted it to be, or atleast the ones ruling Poland after ww2 to 1989
The commies allways said "socialism" rather then communism, that's why Ironside reacted as he did.

1. Socialism is an economic system while communism is both an economic and political system.


Your very very wrong, their both ideologies. What economic/political system they accept or have been seen in use is an different matter :)

2. In socialism, the resources of the economy are managed and controlled by the people themselves through communes or councils while in communism, management and control rest on a few people in a single authoritarian party.


= socialism is decentralized while communism is cetralized

3. Socialists distribute wealth to the people based on an individual's productive efforts while communists farm out wealth based on an individual's needs.


productive effots?! Socialists give out money to anyone so that there won't be an base of poor people wanting an coup de etat or revolution...

While commies steal from anyone just so they build up their army and prepare to share their ideology

4. Socialists can own personal properties while communists can not.


communists in power or communists in general?

5. Socialism allows capitalism to exist in its midst while communism seeks to get rid of capitalist

That depends on the countries party and their economic policy, Socialists and communists can have a variety of policies: Most common is planned economy (communists) and state capitalism. If we look at Scandinavia they use an intervention policy.

5. Socialism allows capitalism to exist in its midst while communism seeks to get rid of capitalist

Again depends on the socialists, but yes communists are no fans of capitalists
OP poland_
26 Apr 2011 #62
That's what the commies wanted it to be, or atleast the ones ruling Poland after ww2 to 1989
The commies always said "socialism" rather then communism, that's why Ironside reacted as he did.

Polish Finance Minister Jan Vincent-Rostowski quote at 6min 16 secs " From socialism to market economy" So he is a communist is he?

Ironside reacted in the way he did, because he imagines communist coming out of all corners in PL.

Your very very wrong, their both ideologies. What economic/political system they accept or have been seen in use is an different matter :)

Socialism is an Economic system, not an ideology

While commies steal from anyone just so they build up their army and prepare to share their ideology

Agreed on this point

communists in power or communists in general?

I am talking about the principal of ownership of property during socialism. In communism you are not allowed to own property, but I am sure, the will,shows the way.

but yes communists are no fans of capitalists

Agreed on this point.
Natasa 1 | 580
26 Apr 2011 #63
Here on PF it is common to talk about the Communist past of Poland, although there is no usage of ' during Socialism

I guess it is the same with all ex socialist countries. We were told that we live in socialism and that one day perhaps we will evolve as a society and reach communism like you described. So it was presented as a hardly achievable ideal.

The word communism got devilish connotation (in the West) and it evokes only associations of totalitarian, oppressive regimes and I think it is deliberately used for ex East block past to further devalue the systems that existed, negating few of their good sides.

The winner abused the power to define what that was and attach only negative meanings to it.

It wasn't communism for us. For the West it was.
OP poland_
26 Apr 2011 #64
It wasn't communism for us. For the West it was.

Natasa, at last someone with an understanding.

True, B! By saying 'in times of socialism' would be to very strongly imply that Poland never knew it before which just isn't true.

Under Communist regimes international mobility was discouraged and borders were sealed. The Polish government, as other governments in the Soviet block, tolerated work by teams of workers on contract jobs implemented by national companies in foreign countries. In the 1960s and 1970s the outflow of emigrants from Poland was continued. but on a small scale . The Communist government did not accept the phenomenon of emigration and very seldom gave a permit to leave the country. The great outflow started at the end of 1980s.

The years between 1978 and 1990 were the period of arrival of the third inflow of Polish immigrants to the United States called the "Solidarity Emigration." Those immigrants had a different background and orientation towards their homeland, the country of new settlement, and American Polonia. During these years the Solidarity union and democratic opposition developed. America's Polonia helped and supported the actions of the independence movement in Poland These new realities changed and reoriented Polonia's activities, because the needs of the homeland had changed.

Former members of the Solidarity Union entered the United States under refugee quotas and as non-quota immigrants. These so-called political immigrants turned out to be about 80% economic immigrants. Real political immigrants during Poland's martial law were estimated on 20% of the total emigration. They obtained only a permit to leave the country without the right to come back.

Therefore, it is understandable that the children of these immigrants have been raised to detest all things related to the communist government in Poland.
polkawusa
16 Sep 2018 #65
@Grzegorz_
Liberals aren't absolutely socialists in US. What a bunch of kaka! Bzdura!!! Liberals are liberals and socialists are socialists and you have to distinguish between socialist democracy and democratic socialism.


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