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What British unit liberated Poland in 1945??


jonni 16 | 2,485
19 Dec 2009 #301
we take back Lwów

Do you want Lwow back?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Dec 2009 #302
I wonder how many Poles would be happy to accept that part of the world back, on condition that they pay an extra 10% income tax to pay for the massive work needing done there. I suspect most romanticism would be gone after they were told that fact ;)

It's a shame that both Polish and Ukranian border authorities can't sort out the mess at the checkpoints and allow much easier access to and from Lviv - both sides are just as bad as each other at Medyka, though there can be no excusing the Polish treatment of non-EU nationals there!
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,961
20 Dec 2009 #303
What would you prefer the British to have done? Not recognised Poland has having a real government for 45 years?

I would have prefered them sticking loyally to the goverment in exile, but I DO understand why they did as they did. thinking of U.K's situation, but many Poles don't know history of U.K :)
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #304
Nathan looks at his shining pitchfork in the corner and a sickle.

I will visit you and stick them up your false ass.

I wonder how many Poles would be happy to accept that part of the world back, on condition that they pay an extra 10%

why on Earth you set condition to whatever we should get back whats rightly ours.
What would you said if stolen precious gem you could got back on condition that you pay all the expenses spend to retrieve that gem.

There was no British unit in Poland in 1945, though there was company of tanks from general Patton army.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Dec 2009 #305
why on Earth you set condition to whatever we should get back whats rightly ours.

Who's going to pay for the cost of integration, then? Poland is the third poorest country in Europe and simply couldn't afford to integrate Western Ukraine. Or do you suggest that someone else pays for the cost of your fantasies?

You have to question the logic of people that would give up Wroclaw and Gdansk for Lwow!
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #306
Who's going to pay for the cost of integration, then?

What do you care?

Poland is the third poorest country in Europe and simply couldn't afford to integrate "western Ukraine".

Poland is poor for a reason, to get it right for a start its need a lot of "fantasy"!
Why do you think that Poland cannot afford to enlarge its territory?
Can you afford to live?Gee....

You have to question the logic of people that would give up Wroclaw and Gdansk for Lwow!

what its has to do with anything? I don't any connection whatsoever between acquired German territories after WWII and Poland's lands stolen by Soviets. Maybe except time frame.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Dec 2009 #307
What do you care?

Those of us that pay taxes in Poland care.

Why do you think that Poland cannot afford to enlarge its territory?

I find it highly unlikely that a country that can't afford to build motorways across the entire country and which can't even afford to subsidise medicine or get rid of bribery and corruption in its state health system can afford to integrate Western Ukraine.

Let's not forget that Poland is running a huge budget defecit and was teetering on the edge of economic collapse not so long ago. And you think you can afford to integrate Western Ukraine? Keep on dreaming!

what its has to do with anything? I don't any connection whatsoever between acquired German territories after WWII and Poland's lands stolen by Soviets. Maybe except time frame.

Of course you wouldn't.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
20 Dec 2009 #308
I don't any connection whatsoever between acquired German territories after WWII and Poland's lands stolen by Soviets.

You got the all new borders from the Soviets? Most people from Lvov live now in Breslau?
Imagine them going back to Lvov...can Germans come back to Breslau?

Of course you wouldn't.

;)
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #309
Those of us that pay taxes in Poland care.

yeah? what do you know about taxes?:P
If you really were that concerned about tax system in Poland you would do something about it as it is killing the country slowly.
I suspect, judging from your post that you are using taxes as a excuse.
Summarily, if taxing system would have been set right, Poland could afford many things, Poland is not poor is poorly govern and is exploited by unscrupulous global vultures.

Let's not forget that Poland is running a huge budget defecit

look above, present system in Poland is such that all the gold from fort Knox wouldn't improved its situation.
I have got a feeling that you are part of the problem, being part of the present establishment.

ou got the all new borders from the Soviets? Most people from Lvov live now in Breslau?
Imagine them going back to Lvov...can Germans come back to Breslau?

BB imagine that Soviets were actually good allies, after the war Poland's eastern border remain the same and there certain acquisition of German territories in the north and west.

That what would had have happened if not for Stalin evil mind set!
Filios1 8 | 1,336
20 Dec 2009 #311
General Sikorski back in 1942

I seriously doubt this claim, dirty Harry. Any sources to back it up?
So you are telling me that Sikorski was willing to give up a huge area of Eastern Poland, including several large cities, to the Soviet Union? I wonder Harry, how this would at all be helpful at the time, since many of the men fighting for him were from eastern Poland. Many, for example, from Lwow, were fighting to keep Lwow Polish, first and foremost. You telling me he sold them out? Must have been great for moral! LOL
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #312
so you are just greedy...

thats what Poland deserve, should be European power instead of Germany, its not being selfish but it would be with benefit to Europe and mankind, whereas one can judge Germany and its "gifts" to the world by its history.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
20 Dec 2009 #313
PS: Didn't know it was Poland what was called the "land of the poet's and thinkers"!

A lot of copying and pasting but I'd hate to keep you waiting, BB ;)

Rofl Torqi...come on...you could also copy/paste the phone book of Warsaw as far as anyone non-Pole would know these names (and I also doubt Hiphop, rap or black metal should be listed)!

I summarized the international impact of polish achievements already above...
To reason from those few people that Poles deserve a higher standing than Germany is so ridiculous.

Not to mention that this standing must be earned and can not "given"...

I simply don't
see Polish contribution to mankind to be as "scarce" as only Kopernik, Szopen,
Skłodowska-Curie or John Paul II :-)

International it is...

(But then...you will always have also Vienna and Grünwald) :)
Torq
20 Dec 2009 #314
PS: Didn't know it was Poland what was called the "land of the poet's and thinkers"!

It's easier to be "land of poets and thinkers" when you don't have to constantly
figth Germans invading from the west and Russians from the east (I won't even
mention Austrians, Turks and Swedes :-)).

Objectively looking, I have to say that German positive contribution to mankind
in terms of culture, science and technology has so far been greater than Polish
but we're still in the competition - you just wait ;)

On the other hand, German negative contribution was also significantly higher
than Polish, so let's call it a draw, OK?

Rofl Torqi...come on...you could also copy/paste the phone book of Warsaw as far as anyone non-Pole would know these names!

In all fairness, many names from your list are not that widely recognised outside
Germany either.

But then...you will always have also Vienna and Grünwald

Be careful where you put your funny "ü's" - the name is Grunwald! :-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
20 Dec 2009 #315
It's easier to be "land of poets and thinkers" when you don't have to constantly
figth Germans invading from the west and Russians from the east (I won't even
mention Austrians, Turks and Swedes :-)).

The most of the time Germany was splitted up into more than 300 little statelets, continously fighting each other or being trampled on by the neighbours.

So that argument doesn't count!

Objectively looking, I have to say that German positive contribution to mankind
in terms of culture, science and technology has so far been greater than Polish
but we're still in the competition - you just wait ;)

He:) Competition is good! It keeps us on the edge! :)
And as we are going to be merged anyhow I would like to see more polish contributions!

On the other hand, German negative contribution was also significantly higher
than Polish, so let's call it a draw, OK?

Actually I don't want to see 12 years of madness balancing out 1000 years of achievements, sorry....
But for peace sake, okay...draw it is!

Be careful where you put your funny "ü's" - the name is Grunwald! :-)

Really? I always thought you all call it Grunwald because you don't have the *ü's*
Torq
20 Dec 2009 #316
But for peace sake, okay...draw it is!

Cheers, BB.

I would have settled for a low 0:1, 1:2 defeat... but since you agreed to a draw :-)

*It's amazing how easy it is to negotiate with Germans. I should apply for a job
in diplomacy corps LOL*


Really? I always thought you all call it Grunwald because you don't have the *ü's*

Nope. You got it all wrong. Grunwald is an ancient Slavic/Serbian/Polish
settlement and was always spelt with "u".
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #317
Really? Care to point out polish "gifts" to mankind compared to Germany?

Freedom, tolerance, respect for individual rights!
I'm talking about philosophy of the state not individual achievements.
If bureaucratic and imposing state as Germany is an achievement - then I pass!
Poland way undiluted by communism is much humane and better like Americans attitude before central bank and federal usurpation.

You forgetting about Himmler, Hitler and bunch of others and their gifts !

That is not to say that I agree with what Ironside has said

You disagree with what ? that Poland should be an power?

I-S lots of copy and paste BB do you feel insecure with your German nationality - as its is resent thingy 1871:P
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,447
20 Dec 2009 #318
*It's amazing how easy it is to negotiate with Germans. I should apply for a job
in diplomacy corps LOL*

We are such pushovers, I tell you..

lots of copy and paste BB do you feel insecure with your German nationality

Or you just needed a refresher in german history and achievements...otherwise your surreal statements aren't to understand!
Torq
20 Dec 2009 #319
You disagree with what ? that Poland should be an power?

You have written:

thats what Poland deserve,should be European power instead of Germany, its not being selfish but it would be with benefit to Europe and mankind, whereas one can judge Germany and its "gifts" to the world by its history.

I disagree with:

1. Judging Germany in a totally negative way, because of their past crimes
without acknowledging their accomplishments and merits throughout history.

2. Replacing Germany as an "engine" of EU with Poland (well, not at this point
in time anyway).

As for Poland being a European power, it will happen sooner or later, but hopefully
will be done in spirit of co-operation with other European countries, including Germany.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #320
Some dreamers here :) Germany will not implode provided that it takes the right steps to remove certain perceived threats. If Germany's status dwindles in any way, France and the UK are still major powers (both nuclear).
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #321
Judging Germany in a totally negative way, because of their past crimes
without acknowledging their accomplishments and merits throughout history.

oh I recognize their merit all right but fail to see what it has to do with judging them as a country - all those merit could be used for wrongdoing.

eplacing Germany as an "engine" of EU with Poland (well, not at this point
in time anyway).

Poland would have has been engine of quite different Europe Confederation if at all!

As for Poland being a European power, it will happen sooner or later, but hopefully
will be done in spirit of co-operation with other European countries, including Germany.

Sure, that is not gonna happen if Germany has anything to say, they make rules for others to obey whereas they make exception for themselves as they are "paymaster" of the EU.

surreal statements aren't to understand!

Sure, you Germans understand only when you want to understand :P
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #322
How do Germans make exceptions for themselves? You might be thinking of opt-out clauses, Ironside.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
20 Dec 2009 #323
imagine that Soviets were actually good allies

You think that the Soviet army was some historical entity without any real nations behind it. Many believe that the Soviet army was made of Russians and nobody else.

In total, the number of ethnic Ukrainians that fought in the ranks of the Soviet Army is estimated from 4.5 million[39] to 7 million.[42][d] The pro-Soviet partisan guerilla resistance in Ukraine is estimated to number at 47,800 from the start of occupation to 500,000 at its peak in 1944

It makes 20-25% from the total number of all conscripted soldiers (around 29 millions).
Interesting is that Yalta is mentioned so often. At Yalta conference the territories occupied by Poland from 1920 till 1939 and by Nazi Germany from 1941 till 1944 were recovered by joined forces, where Ukrainians made a very significant part. It is not like somebody signed a paper and poor north Poles remained crying as always in the corner. Ukrainians poured their blood liberating their land. Strangely enough you didn't manage to liberate your own country and now dare to jump around like little brats and demand something ;) Allied forces did you a favor in the West, your government was graciously accepted by the British and the concentration camps inmates + your land were freed with the help of the Soviet army in the East. The problem with some kids around here is that your are not ever satisfied. You helped Germans to rip Czechoslovakia apart, starting WW2 in October 1938, not in September 1939. You wanted Vilnius and surrounding territories from Lithuania in 1919-1920, you issued 2!!!!! ultimatums aimed to steal other countries' lands:

The 1938 Polish ultimatum to Lithuania was an ultimatum delivered to Lithuania by Poland on March 17, 1938...The establishment of diplomatic relations would mean a de facto renunciation of Lithuanian claims to the region containing its historic capital, Vilnius

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Polish_ultimatum_to_Lithuania

On September 27 (1938 - the same year!!!), seeing that Czechoslovakia was in dire straits with Nazi troops readying to invade, Poland issued an ultimatum, demanding that Czechoslovakia hand over its Tesin (Teschen) district.

weeklyuniverse.com/2003/poland.htm
The same happened in L'viv in Ukraine. (No ultimatum, though :( just usual stealing spree)

Immediately after capturing the city, in the end of November, Polish forces as well as common criminals looted the Jewish and Ukrainian quarters of the city.[7][8]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War
Wow, quite a country ;)
Yehh, keep on jumping Ultimators :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Dec 2009 #324
If you really were that concerned about tax system in Poland you would do something about it as it is killing the country slowly.

The tax system isn't too bad in Poland, it's quite simple compared to many other European countries, especially compared to the UK and Germany. Poland does have a fragile tax base, but there's nothing anyone can do about that.

Summarily, if taxing system would have been set right

So what is 'right'?

I have got a feeling that you are part of the problem, being part of the present establishment.

Sure, if paying taxes and contributing to the economy is a 'problem', then I dread to think what you think is a 'benefit'.

Poland can barely afford to feed her own, let alone a huge amount of angry Ukranians!
Torq
20 Dec 2009 #325
If Germany's status dwindles in any way, France and the UK are still major powers

France and UK are still major powers, however they wouldn't be able
to replace Germany in the role of Central European power as they are
quite ignorant about the region and don't have any means of influence
over the countries of the region in case of crisis.
If Germany's status should dwindle, we will take their place - HAHAHA
HAHAHAHA *sinister laugh from horrors*

they make rules for others to obey whereas they make exception for themselves as they are "paymaster" of the EU

I don't deny that, maybe, sometimes they overuse their postion in EU, but let's
be honest - if we were in their shoes we would probably try to do the same for
the benefit of Poland. Politics is a dirty business most of the time.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #326
Ignorant about the region? Upon what do you base that assessment? There are specialists in both countries who are paid to keep tabs on key developments so I don't get your point at all.

Take Germany's place and do what exactly? What meaningful actions?
Ironside 50 | 10,922
20 Dec 2009 #328
ultimatums aimed to steal other countries' lands:

you didn't have a country before 1991.
Podole, Lwów and other territories are Polish land and have always been Polish, regardless Ukrainian minority living there!
You come to poses stolen lands, by no merits of your own.
You on your own don't stand a chance, so keep spiting upstart:)

Anyway I think there is something fishy about you, are you Polish citizen?>

The tax system isn't too bad in Poland,

LOL

So what is 'right'?

as little tax as possible - it simplified.

Poland can barely afford to feed her own, let alone a huge amount of angry Ukranians

Poland can afford all right but there no need to feed Ukrainians, they can live in Ukraine!
Torq
20 Dec 2009 #329
Ignorant about the region? Upon what do you base that assessment? There are specialists in both countries who are paid to keep tabs on key developments so I don't get your point at all.

That's not the point. Those specialists may know the facts but at the end of the day,
in case of crisis it's the deep understanding of people's souls and way of thinking
that plays more important part, as well as relations between people. It will always be
easier for a Pole to make a deal with Hungarian, Slovak or Lithuanian than for French.

It's about history and society - that's why France is trying to play leading role
in the Mediterranean area and wouldn't be equally able to excercise any kind
of serious influence over Central Europe.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Dec 2009 #330
I agree, Torq, but you cannot deny that France is a major power in the EU, as is GB. Like it or not, Sarkozy sticks his filthy beak into many pies and gets around. Maybe you should opt for a Slavic Alliance as Crow proposes? Simply put, GB and France wield powerful forceps.

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