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Alexander the Great - Macedonski. Poland connection?


jon357 67 | 16,921
27 Jan 2014 #121
All the content is original - repeated, ammended, updated and repeated again.

Check out the forum rules about unattributed cut and pastes.
Crow 148 | 9,318
27 Jan 2014 #122
For the record, Poland and the UK officially use the title Republic of Macedonia.

i understand Poland. Poles, as all Slavs, defending Macedonia in `name` dispute with the Greece, defends Slavic antic history that was/is for too long denied for political reasons. But, i don`t understand what motivates UK.

Let us don`t forget that Scots originates from Sarmatians (ie Proto Slavs).
Nick the Greek
27 Jan 2014 #123
Alexander the Great Walked like a Greek and Talked like a Greek - Go ask Latins, Celts, Egyptians, Persians, Phoenicians, Jews, Hindus and Tajiks!

The Proto-Slavic Theory was only in the minds of a few sick and twisted pseudo-historical revisionists intoxicated on Greek Myth and indoctrinated on Makedonism...a now outdated Ideology prevalent in FYRoM which teaches young Slavic Children to see themselves as Macedonians and to see ancient-Macedonians as [Proto] Slavs.
rock - | 460
27 Jan 2014 #124
Alexander the Great Walked like a Greek and Talked like a Greek

What about his sexual choises ? . .... like a Greek. :)

Turkey has no appetite to take back her former lands. Anybody who claims this has to be crazy.

But we want to have good economic and political relations with all Balkan countries. We have strong ties with all of them.

I claim that culturally Balkan countries have more common sides with Turkey then Germany, France, Britain.
Nick the Greek
27 Jan 2014 #125
I claim that culturally Balkan countries have more common sides with Turkey then Germany, France, Britain.

Hmmm...

Some of them - Albania, Kosovo, FYRoM, Bosnia-Hertzegovina. Islamic religion has strong presence there.

Culture: The Haemus [Greek] Peninsula has absorbed many outsiders. The underlying Cultural Substratum there is 'Byzantine Greco-Roman.' Turkish Culture absorbed most of it and Superimposed some of their own on top of it...Islamic Cultural Themes and Synergies for example, food and clothes for another example!

But here, in this Thread, we are discussing Alexander the Great - Makedonski. Scholars of the Classics place him in the Greek-Hellenic Collective of Peoples, in Opposition to FYRoM where historians there make him Proto-Slavic, the first Czar of the Slavs!

After FYRoM: The Emergence of The Republic of Sparta - Coming Soon!

If a dissident breakaway separatist group today, decided to secede from an established South-Slavic country in the Haemus [Balkan] peninsula, and went on to declare their new state "The Republic of Sparta," how should the Greeks react. Would the EU - UN - USA - NATO tell Greece to put-up and shut-up, and accept the new reality because this new state has the inviolable right to declare it's chosen name freely, on the basis of human-rights, feelings and the wishes of it's peoples. So, "The Republic of Sparta" comes into existence and touts for global sympathy and support which is freely given, followed by some semi-quasi recognition from the USA prompting other's to follow suite...how should the Greeks react to these surreal developments.

The scenario above is not that far remove from the real events which took place following the break-up and disintegration of the old-Yugoslavia...these events ushered onto the world stage the Yugoslav Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Come 1991, the Slavs of FYRoM decided to drop the "Socialist" part from their name and became The Republic of Macedonia.

Note: Spartans and Macedonians derive from the same Dorian Hellenic stock, and affiliate to the Greek collective of peoples.

In the case of the Spartan example...who would have the front or the gall to want to take that name for self-Identification, knowing full-well in advance, the Spartans derive from Dorian-Hellenic stock. Nobody would entertain such indulgence, such folly and such silliness.

In the case of the FYRoM example...the West entertained their indulgence, their folly and their silliness on the basis of faulty substandard, ill though-out advice issued to GW Bush in November 2004 by his highly paid advisors, the best brains money could buy. They advised George to recognise FYRoM as Republic of Macedonia to spite the Greeks...for their Maverick NoN-Conformist ways. Greece was the only Western country to support Serbia and often criticised NATO policy against them.

Politics eh! Politicians eh! It took scholars and academics to put politicians in their place. The international academic community backed Greece whilst politicians backed FYRoM. The rest is history! FYRoM went from being showered with Western sympathies and support to being ditched...on the basis, politicians cannot ride roughshod over long established academic reference points.

Macedonians like the Spartans are derived from Dorian Greeks and academia knows that...their regional-tribal names belongs in the Greek domain whilst their Identities belongs to Greek heritage.

It took alot of front, alot of bottle and alot of gall to do what FYRoM did...tell the world they are Macedonians on the basis they speak Macedonian and live on Macedonian lands when none of it is actually true. In reality they are South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock. They speak a language properly called Serbo-Bulgarian rather than Macedonian-language and they live on Paeonian - Dardanian lands.

Greeks have to defend and protect their history and heritage because if we didn't do that...politicians would make Macedonians out of South-Slavs, not for academic or political correctness, but for the expediance of it!
Crow 148 | 9,318
28 Jan 2014 #126
Sparta

Its about Proto Slavs. You know, when we are at it, word Sparta means and designate same as word Sarmatia. Just little bit different transcription. Spartans, same as Macedonians or Trojans, were not Greeks but were under the influence of Hellenism.

On the periphery of the Proto Slavic world for the long period of time, after retreat of Slavdom, still existed numerous Slavic communities. Those communities were strongly interdependent with their non-Slavic surrounding and were more or less assimilated into the local prevailing culture. Still, we have historical traces that lead us to conclusion that ancients preserved their contacts with the rest of the Slavdom, deeper in Slavic (Proto Slavic) inland.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #127
It's about respecting your neighbours - not rubbishing them!

Aechaens, Aeolians, Ionians, Dorians. From those Four Root Races, more than 230 known, ancient-Greek groups, tribes and kingdoms together, collectively, formed the Hellenic-Tribes from antiquity. All of them traced their beginnings back to [Proto-Greek] Mycenaeans.

1 - Modern-Greeks trace their hereditary ancestors back to Byzantium. The [Greco-Roman] Eastern Roman Empire.
2 - Byzantines traced their hereditary ancestors back to the ancient-Hellenes.
3 - Ancient-Hellenes traced their hereditary ancestors back to the Proto-Greek Mycenaeans.

Proto-Greeks were not Slavs and Proto-Slavs were not Hellenic.

Pre-Hellenic and Pre-Slavic peoples may have shared something in common but the moment language developed - one Centum-Hellenic and the other one Satem-Slavic, Hellenics and Slavics parted...went their seperate ways.

The Centum-Greek language and Hellenism defines Macedonians from since the days of King Karanus...>3 Millenniums now.

Respect the history and heritage of your neighbours - do not ridicule them or rubbish them anymore...for the sake of peace in the Haemus [Greek] peninsula!
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #128
Your stuff comes verbatim from here.
godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1028505/pg193
lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Alexander-the-Great-Greek-or-SouthSlav?p ag...‎
topix.com/forum/world/macedonia/T853HRBO1T5B7SFSG‎

The big thing is, the more you spam like that, the less convinced people are. Most people can make their own minds up and are happy to call Macedonia by its name - Macedonia.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #129
Your stuff comes verbatim from here.
godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1028505/pg193
lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Alexander-the-Great-Greek-or-SouthSl av?p ag...‎
topix.com/forum/world/macedonia/T853HRBO1T5B7SFSG‎

The most recent post...the one above your one made it's debut here, in this forum first. Ammended versions were posted elsewhere.

Now jon357 - Alexander the Great: Greek or South-Slav ? What does a drag racer think ?
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #130
The most recent post...the one above your one made it's debut here,

So one in a thread is original? And the rest copied from other people??

Alexander the Great: Greek or South-Slav ?

It's an irrelevance - the Greeks of today are not the Greeks of the ancient world, the Slavs are not the ancient Slavs and the names of states in Europe reflect more than just the ancient world.

What does a drag racer think ?

A drag racer? :-)
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #131
1 - All original. My words...All content is original - repeated, ammended, updated and repeated again.

2 - The Hebrews are not the ancient-Hebrews and the Chinese are not the ancient-Chinese. Is this the best you can do!

3 - Well Yeah!

The drag racer comment comes from googling jon357 - his posts are found in drag racing forums ? Not You Then!

So, jon357 - Today's modern-Greeks are the sole and legal modern-representatives of the ancient-Greeks. The heirs and inheritors of the Byzantine Greco-Roman Empire. The hereditary cultural inheritors of ancient-Hellas. The path of least resistance flows through the modern-Greeks, nobody else. No modern-peoples connect more to their ancestors than Greeks. We can Prove it.
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #132
All content is original - repeated, ammended, updated and repeated again.

You mean you post this rubbish all round the internet? That does come across as rather obsessive.

The Hebrews are not the ancient-Hebrews and the Chinese are not the ancient-Chinese

No, they aren't. And the Modern Greeks are not the heirs of the Ancient Greeks in anything really, except a reconstructed language. Too much has happened since their culture was lost and their society degraded. They certainly can't credibly claim a linguistic link as an excuse for interfering with the name of another country.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #133
And the Modern Greeks are not the heirs of the Ancient Greeks.

Are modern Turks the sole and legal modern-representaives of the Ottoman Empire - YES or NO!

Depends how you answer - My next question for you is predictable...right ?
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #134
Are modern Turks the sole and legal modern-representaives of the Ottoman Empire - YES or NO!

Did Ancient Greece survive until 1918? Yes or No?

And by the way, Turkey is not a legal (and certainly not a sole) representative of the Ottoman Empire, which covered a huge area including Modern Greece. Do you consider

modern Turks the sole and legal modern-representaivse

of Greece?
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #135
Did Ancient Greece survive until 1918? Yes or No?

If FYRoM the sole and legal heir and inheritor of the ancient-Macedonian legacy YES or NO!
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #136
That doesn't really make sense. Some 'ancient legacy' certainly isn't relevant to anything today. If it was, Italy would have a claim on half of Europe, the Persians would have a claim on most of the Middle East (including Modern Greece) and the Mongolians would have a claim on half of Europe and Asia.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #137
That doesn't really make sense.

Try this one then!

Is FYRoM right to claim Alexander the Great and his father King Philip of Macedon their hereditary ancestors - YES or NO!
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #138
Claim as what? Famous Macedonians?

That seems fair enough.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #139
Claim as what?

hereditary ancestors - is FYRoM right to claim Alexander the Great and his father King Philip of Macedon their hereditary ancestors ?
jon357 67 | 16,921
29 Jan 2014 #140
They can if they want. - there's certainly nothing to stop them. The only issue is whether or not their country is called Macedonia - and it is. That's recognised by Poland, by the way.
Nick the Greek
29 Jan 2014 #141
They can if they want. - there's certainly nothing to stop them.

Is it right though ? morally ethically ?

Is it morally ethically right for a South-Slavic statelet to excercize the right of self-determination to usurp the name and Identity of an ancient-Hellenic people-group ?

their country is called Macedonia. That's recognised by Poland, by the way.

Does Poland recognise historic rights ? the historic rights of the Hellenic Republic.

Turkey is not a legal (and certainly not a sole) representative of the Ottoman Empire

Silence from the Turkic contingent - Why ?

So jon357 does not consider the Greeks to be the sole and legal modern-representatives of the Byzantine Empire, nor Turks to be the sole and legal modern-representatives of the Ottoman Empire.

jon357 - raising eyebrows with his strong views on People-Names, Place-Names, Identity, History, Demography and cultural inheritance!

So jon357 ended up to be a FYRoM internet warrior from Australia, defending the rights of FYRoM to usurp an ancient and archaic, Greek-Hellenic regional-tribal name, in order that FYRoM use it, no just for country-name...sovereign state-name, but for Nationality, Language and Ethnicity.

The Macedonian Name belongs in the Greek Domain where it originated. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greeks heritage. The full implications of this statement is understood at the highest echelons of diplomatic office...and thats all that matters really. FYRoM is no longer given the time of day on the issue of the Name dispute between FYRoM and Greece.
rock - | 460
30 Jan 2014 #142
more than 230 known, ancient-Greek groups, tribes and kingdoms together, collectively, formed the Hellenic-Tribes

That is too much. Your current population is sth like 230. Hahahaahhaha
jon357 67 | 16,921
30 Jan 2014 #143
The Macedonian Name belongs in the Greek Domain where it originated.

It belongs to whoever uses it

FYRoM is no longer given the time of day on the issue of the Name dispute between FYRoM and Greece.

Most of the world uses the name Macedonia rather than FYROM.
Nick the Greek
30 Jan 2014 #144
Centum-Greek speakers in general originated the Macedonian name and Northern Dorian-Greeks in particular, used the Macedonian name for Identity from since >3 Millenniums ago! Macedonians self-Identified Greek from since the times of King Karanus 778-808 BC. Northern-Greeks still use the name, they continue to self-determine in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors.

FYRoM cannot use another peoples regional-tribal name for National-Identity! It is one thing to adopt a name - It is quite another, to usurp it.

I say again: The Macedonian name belongs in the Greek domain - Adopt it but at least recognize it's origins.
I say again: Macedonian Identity is not transferable - FYRoM cannot touch this...Hands Off!

FYRoM alienated a whole nation of Hellenes and their global Greek diasporas...a body of peoples totalling >18 Millions. FYRoM also alienated unknown numbers of PhilHellenes and Grecophiles.
jon357 67 | 16,921
30 Jan 2014 #145
originated

778-808 BC

3 Millenniums ago!

There you go again. Ancient history is no basis for the present.

FYRoM alienated a whole nation of Hellenes and their global Greek diasporas

Nobody cares much about that, do they. A nation that can't pay its bills doesn't have much of a voice.
Nick the Greek
30 Jan 2014 #146
Alexander the Great was the ancient-Greek King of Macedon - FYRoM presents him, an ancient-Greek hero figure as hereditary ancestor. They do the same with his father King Philip of Macedon. They name airports, arenas, stadiums, streets, and boulevards after them, and compete with Greece over ancient historical matters scholars and academics long attributed to the history of the Hellenic Republic.

In FYRoM, they teach young Slavic children there to see themselves as Macedonians and to see ancient-Macedonians as Slavs - much to the annoyance of the Greeks.

Nobody has the right to disrespect the history and heritage of Greeks. Nobody has the right to Rubbish Greek history!
jon357 67 | 16,921
30 Jan 2014 #147
ancient

ancient

hereditary

Then was then and now is now.

They name airports, arenas, stadiums, streets, and boulevards after them

Poles and Germans feel the same way about Copernicus. Same with King Cnut and Britain/Denmark. Nobody really minds, except perhaps for some teenagers whose energy would perhaps be better expended elsewhere.
Nick the Greek
30 Jan 2014 #148
FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic...in language and culture at least!

Macedonians on the other hand, exist in the same place, Walking and Talking Greek-style for >3 Millenniums now!

FYRoM is not for sharing - FYRoM exists to ridicule Hellenism and humiliate Greeks in a bad way. This is what they do with their revisionism and pseudo-historical national narrative.
jon357 67 | 16,921
30 Jan 2014 #149
FYRoM exists to ridicule Hellenism and humiliate Greeks in a bad way

You've summed it up - basically you feel insecure about it.
Nick the Greek
30 Jan 2014 #150
FYRoM exposed for what it really is - a Buffer state, ethnic central to the Haemus [Greek] peninsula...where the governing mind-architects there blur the distinction between Hellenic things and Slavic things intentionally, in order to build national identity.

In FYRoM, children there believe they speak Macedonian...the same language as the one spoken by Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.
In FYRoM, children there believe they live in Macedonia...the same land as the one where the ancient King Philip of Macedon once lived.
In FYRoM, children there believe they are Macedonians...the true modern descendants of the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.
In FYRoM, children there believe ancient-Macedonians were Proto-Slavs and Alexander the Great, the first Czar.

In FYRoM live brainwashed indoctrinated children...taught to see themselves as Macedonians and to see Greeks as the enemy, occupying their Macedonian territory!

Greeks despair but we no give up...we shall continue to teach them: Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples - a regional historical people-group of ethnic-Greek stock.


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