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Alexander the Great - Macedonski. Poland connection?



jon357 70 | 12,786    
25 Jan 2014  #91

The citizens of the republic of Macedonia, of course!


Nick the Greek    
25 Jan 2014  #92

Tell me about them...their culture, language, history and heritage etc!
jon357 70 | 12,786    
25 Jan 2014  #93

None of that is relevant, except perhaps to those Greeks who feel awkward about the name of the Macedonians' country,

I doubt we'll agree on this, however I do wish you wouldn't get stressed about the inevitable. It's their choice of name and the best thing you could do is to be magnanimous rather than petty.
Nathan 18 | 1,373    
25 Jan 2014  #94

Tell me about them...their culture, language, history and heritage etc!

Tell me that you are the one who would be able to describe other nation's culture and heritage better than they do themselves. Only morons with chauvinistic tendencies can claim that. I apologize to PF for my abruptness, but there is nothing dumber than people from neighboring countries telling you how to call oneself, while trying to bring some ridiculous arguments and explanations from prehistoric times. Maybe, you should talk to Turkey and ask how to better call the Greeks, based on the Turkish understanding of your heritage and culture?
Nick the Greek    
25 Jan 2014  #95

None of that is relevant

Ofcourse it is relevant! FYRoM bases it's existence in antiquity...this is what the Greeks fight against - Pseudo-Historical Revisionism!

The Rosetta Stone Controversy was one such instance where their own Academy of Arts and Sciences [[Tentov][Boshevski]] deciphered the middle text of the Rosetta Stone and came up with the conclusion it was the same language as the one spoken in FYRoM. Their own historians tell them they are the modern descendants of the ancient-Macedonians...and Alexander the Great was the first Czar of the Slavs.

Greeks take offence at the way they ridicule Hellenism and disrespect the history and heritage of the Hellenic-peoples.
enkidu 7 | 625    
26 Jan 2014  #96

Oh come on. Historically you are right.
But on the other hand - they have got every right to name their country as they want it.
They can even drop the name of Macedonia and decide to name themselves as
"The Greeks-Are-Bloody-Pussies Republic".
Crow 138 | 5,830    
26 Jan 2014  #97

Let us don`t forget one very important fact here. Defending its own Slavic antiquity and refusing ideas of the Anglo-Germanic scholars about late arrival of Slavs in Europe in 6th century AD, Macedonians also defending Poland and thesis that are Poles natives in Poland.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #98

Oh come on. Historically you are right.
But on the other hand - they have got every right to name their country as they want it.

There is conflict in what you state!

If we are right Historically, as you state... then the peoples of FYRoM cannot claim the historical legacy of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity.

Two differing [[ethnic][racial]] people-groups, one Hellenic and the other one Slavic, cannot claim the same hereditary ancestors!

Macedonian Ancestral Heredity flows through the path of least resistance - the modern-Greek path!

FYRoM abuses the right of self-determination to usurp the Macedonian Name not just for country-name...sovereign state-name, but for Nationality, Language and Ethnicity, which if officially legitimized, would make them ethnic-racial, cultural and linguistic Macedonians on Technical [titular] level. This would be Anathema for Greeks and the international academic community who have stated their academic credentials on Macedonians having Greek-Hellenic Identity from since the times of King Karanus 778-808 BC.
enkidu 7 | 625    
26 Jan 2014  #99

If we are right Historically, as you state... then the peoples of FYRoM cannot claim

They can claim whatever they want and they can call their country as they wish.
This is their sovereign country, this is their land and they have every right to do whatever they want.

If they decide to call their country i.e. "Poland" or "USA" - who can stop them? Nobody.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #100

They can claim whatever they want and they can call their country as they wish.
This is their sovereign country, this is their land and they have every right to do whatever they want.

They do exactly that! They claim Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity to be their hereditary ancestors and humiliate Greeks in the process. They also claim that Greece is occupying Macedonian territory.

FYRoM does exactly what you state above with no regard to the consequences of those actions. That kind of behaviour is considered confrontationalist, not conducive to good neighbourly relations...a pre-requisite for joining the EU and NATO.

All outstanding issues with neighbouring countries FYRoM would need to resolve before gaining entry into the Western Worlds most prestigious economic and security structures.

FYRoM has problems with all of it's neighbours except Turkey!

In FYRoM live Slavic-speaking Serbo-Bulgar peoples wanting to self-determine as Macedonians...Ethnically, Racially, Nationally, Culturally and Linguistically, but Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples...Northern-Greeks, from the ancient-Kingdom of Macedon which is located in Northern-Greece. Macedonian history belongs to no-one but the Greeks and their legacy belongs to Greek heritage.

Had FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs introduced themselves to the world as Slavs but Macedonians too, Greeks would have sat down with them to discuss exactly, their Macedonian credentials, but they didn't do that...instead, they told the world that Alexander the Great was the first Czar of the Slavs and ancient-Macedonians were proto-Slavic peoples. They commissioned a Spanish Haematologist to doctor the results of a genetic study which placed the Greek sample in the African cluster. They used genetic propaganda to show Greeks had African origins whilst they were indigenous and native to the Haemus-peninsula. Their Maps show Macedonian territory in Greece as Occupied territory

and stage events depicting the funeral of Greece. They have even erased the White Cross on the Greek flag and replaced it with a Swastika. Greeks have been sensitized to FYRoM's propaganda antics so every word they say there, and every step they take there, is scrutinized to the nth, degree.

Macedonia for the Greeks constitues a large part of their geography and an even larger part of their national-history and cultural-heritage...we aim to keep all Macedonian Identity factors Greek-Hellenic, because we owe it to our ancestral forebears to do that.

FYRoM is not Macedonia and the peoples there are Slavic. On the other hand, Macedonians have always been Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples from since the days of King Karanus 778-808 BC. FYRoM's self-determination right has to be weighed-up against the cultural-historical rights of Greeks wanting to continue to self determine in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
26 Jan 2014  #101

wanting to self-determine as Macedonians

Not 'wanting to' - that's the name of their country, however much nationalists next door find that hard to deal with.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #102

FYRoM's Macedonian Identity rests on the twin pillars of Language Name and Country Name...take these away, I mean, knock these pillars down and FYRoM has nothing else on which to base their Identity on.

Language Name and Country Name - Two Identity factors FYRoM bases it's Identity on. Both were sanctioned during the last years of WWII in 1944 and 1945 respectively by the Croatian Communist dictator of Yugoslavia Marshall Josip Broz Tito. He knew that country-name begets nationality and language-name begets ethnicity.

Country Name generates Nationality. Language Name generates Ethnicity - The Identity Jigsaw puzzle completes when the Macedonian name is applied to those Identity factors. The ultimate humiliation for Greeks is to have this configuration legitimized, FYRoM would then become a Nation of Slavic-speaking Macedonians with no ethnic-racial, cultural or linguistic relatedness to the ancient-Greek speaking peoples who created the name and originated the identity in the first place.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
26 Jan 2014  #103

Identity rests on the twin pillars of Language Name and Country Nam

Nobody's going to do that - despite how insecure they are.

the ancient-Greek speaking peoples who created the name and originated the identity in the first place.

Who have little or nothing to do with the modern Greeks except for a reconstructed language.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #104

Poles apart...We have FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs on the one hand, and Greeks on the other hand. The problem between them is a name dispute which is 23 years long, pending resolution.

Greeks contend that Macedonians are Greek from since the days of King Karanus 778-808 BC...Greeks also contend that the Macedonian name stay in the Greek domain and Macedonian-Identity belongs to Greek-heritage. Northern-Greeks still use Macedonian-Identity today, as regional-geographic Identity.

FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs contend, they are Macedonians too, only they go a step further by placing the "ethnic" term before the Macedonian one. They call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians" much to the annoyance of the Greeks.

The International academic community support the Greeks on these main tenets...that the Macedonian name was created from Centum-Greek speakers, Hellenic-peoples, who's Identity was attested to in other peoples histories - Latins, Celts, Egyptians, Jews, Persians, Hindus etc. All of them depicted Macedonians as Hellenic-peoples in their histories.

Global politicians versed in the complexities of diplomacy, and on International relations, cannot disagree with Academia, or go against the findings of scholars and academics who spent their professional carears on the dissemination of classicist Greco-Roman history.

If FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs want to use Macedonian-Identity, they must acknowledge that the original users of that Identity were Greek-speaking Hellenic-peoples.

The original-Macedonians were Greeks, and they are still here today as Greeks...FYRoM's South-Slavs have to contend with these people when they call themselves "ethnic-Macedonians. "
jon357 70 | 12,786    
26 Jan 2014  #105

The problem between them is a name dispute which is 23 years long, pending resolution.

Which is a bore for everyone except extreme natiionalists in Greece, which with just a few accidents of history may well be called TFORG (The Former Ottoman Republic of Greece).
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #106

FYRoM is unable to convince the outside-world that the people there are Macedonians, the modern descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. FYRoM is unable to convince the outside-world that the language they speak is Macedonian, the same language spoken by Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity. FYRoM is unable to convince the outside-world that the land they reside on is Macedonian-land, the Kingdom of Macedon, the land of Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians from antiquity. FYRoM is unable to convince the outside-world to recognize the people there as real Macedonians, the way they want to be recognized...as Macedonian-speaking Macedonians from Macedonia. FYRoM tried very hard but failed.

November 2004, the International community took the diplomatic approach based on Americas lead and recognized FYRoM, as 'Republic of Macedonia' on bi-lilateral basis...solely on one to one basis, for trade and commercial reasons, and for bi-lateral ties only. None of those countries recognized FYRoM as the modern heir and inheritor of the ancient-Macedonian legacy.

FYRoM was left to wallow in it's own nostalgia for too long. The peoples there were left free to write their own unique national history based on collective-memories and past experiences...all of them fabricated on basis of ethnic-manipulation and socially-engineered reminiscences of ancient-past. FYRoM is unable even now, to convince the outside-world that they are something different to the Serbian-Bulgarian South-Slavic collective to which they belong, ethnically - racially - culturally - linguistically...

...so why the pretence!

Why does FYRoM continue with this pretentious, farcicle and sometimes theatrical side-show, put-on, staged, to persuade and convince the outside-world to recognize them as real and proper Macedonians...the sole and legal modern descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient-Macedonians from antiquity when clearly they are Not. FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs are exactly what it says on the tin...they are blood-kin South-Slavs from Serbian and Bulgarian stock with no proven links or connections to the real Macedonians of old!

To FYRoM's ex-Yugoslavs I say this: Stop the pretence and apologise immediately to the Greek-Hellenic peoples, whom you ridicule and humiliate for >2 decades now, and who's history and heritage you have Rubbished with your pseudo-historical revisionism.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
26 Jan 2014  #107

Your post above occurs verbatim in the following websites:

Most of the other nationalistic crap you've trotted out comes similarly from various other unattributed sources. Perhaps you think that spamming the internet will make people believe that stuff.

Check the forum rules by the way on cut 'n' paste.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #108

Check the forum rules by the way on cut 'n' paste.

The content varies to suit the mood!

You know me - I know You!
rock - | 460    
26 Jan 2014  #109

If name Macedonia was very important for you and symbolizing your soul, why did not you name your country as Macedonia instead of Hellas :)

or you could say Macedonia & Hellas Rep. like Bosnia & Hercegovina. You missed this chance my friend.
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #110

If name Macedonia was very important for you and symbolizing your soul, why did not you name your country as Macedonia instead of Hellas

The Macedonian Name belongs in the Greek domain where it originated. Macedonian Identity belongs to Greek heritage.

Greeks do accept that Names can be adopted...but not Identities!

FYRoM covets the Macedonian Name not just for Country-Name...Sovereign State-Name - they want to use that ancient and archaic, Greek-Hellenic, regional-tribal Name for Nationality, Language and Ethnicity...Identity factors which do not bode well for South-Slavs.

A Macedonian Nation outside of Hellenism has never existed in historical verity!
rock - | 460    
26 Jan 2014  #111

I think there is not any problem with the name of the country.

But, it is obvious that Alexander is not a slavic hero.

Will Greece recognize Macedonia republic if they find their slavic hero and remove Alexander's statue ?
Nick the Greek    
26 Jan 2014  #112

1 - A prefix suffix [[ethnic][geographic]] to compliment the term 'Macedonia' would end the name dispute in an instant...at a stroke.
2 - Thank You for being decisive on this important significant point.
3 - A geographic or ethnic qualifier in front of the term '[Macedonia' ends the name dispute today, on the proviso FYRoM recognizes Alexander the Great as the ancient-Greek King of Macedon and acknowledges the ancient-Macedonians belonging to the Greek-Hellenic Collective of Peoples.
Crow 138 | 5,830    
27 Jan 2014  #113

Nick the Greek

Back then Macedonia and most of the Greece were part of the Serbian medieval Empire.

So, if its ok to us Serbs, why do you Greeks complaint. Let them do whatever they want on their territory. You Greeks needs to worry for the rising Turkish appetites, not to waste your energy and resources on small Slavic state and ethos such as Macedonia. This what today`s Greece doing may lead to serious aggravation of relations with all Slavs. If come to that, you think Germany, England or France would help you against Turks?? Just think what you doing
jon357 70 | 12,786    
27 Jan 2014  #114

Back then Macedonia and most of the Greece were part of the Serbian medieval Empire.

Perhaps Modern Greece should be called the Former Serbian Republic of Greece (FSRoG). It has a nice sound to it.
Crow 138 | 5,830    
27 Jan 2014  #115

Former Serbian Republic of Greece

no. In fact, much proper name would be Former Turkish Beylerbey of Greece.

That considering that Greeks didn`t want to support resistance of the Serbian Empire to the Turks. Greeks were weakest point. Instead to support us, Greek Orthodox Church sent curse to Serbs because considered impossible that Slav (no matter Orthodox) can be Emperor to Greeks. Greeks always considered themselves superior to the Slavs

All Serbian appeals for help and support over Christian line failed. Only our scream over Slavic line, attracted Polish and later Russian attention and we got support.
Nick the Greek    
27 Jan 2014  #116

This what today`s Greece doing may lead to serious aggravation of relations with all Slavs.

FYRoM poisoned the atmosphere between us.

For the record: Greece already enjoys the best of relations with all friendly Slavic States.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
27 Jan 2014  #117

no. In fact, much proper name would be Former Turkish Beylerbey of Greece.

Yes, that's certainly more accurate.

For the record, Poland and the UK officially use the title Republic of Macedonia.
Nick the Greek    
27 Jan 2014  #118

Macedonians are the Greeks that continue to self-determine in the tradition of their regional historical ancestors - Who got face to deny them.

The Name, The Identity, The History, The Heritage, The Legacy...All Greek. Hands Off!
jon357 70 | 12,786    
27 Jan 2014  #119

Your post comes from these same websites - and you accuse the Macedonians of being unoriginal!
Nick the Greek    
27 Jan 2014  #120

Your post comes from these same websites - and you accuse the Macedonians of being unoriginal!
topix.com/forum/world/macedonia/TG5H3IC6ND33KO3DI‎
godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1028505/pg186
f2bb.com/bbs/show_topic/197606/89‎
euinside.eu/en/news/macedonia-in-the-twilight-zone‎

You missed some!

All the content is original - repeated, ammended, updated and repeated again.

The Message is Clear...Crystal Clear: Macedonia is Hellenic from since the days of King Karanus 778-808 BC.

FYRoM cannot use another peoples regional-tribal name for National Identity. Names can be adopted but not Identities...they stay with the ethnic-racial, cultural-linguistic people-groups that created the Identity in the first place. Macedonians self-Identified Greek...Go ask the International Academic Community.




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