The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / History  % width posts: 37

Movie about Polish Fighter 303 Squadron in the making


jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Mar 2015  #1
Should be worth watching - let's hope it gets made...

A film about the iconic No. 303 Polish pilots who fought with the RAF against the Luftwaffe in WWII, is currently in pre-production.
£ukasz Palkowski, whose lastest movie 'Gods' has been both a hit with critics and the public, will take on directorial duties, while the script has been written by veteran film-maker Jerzy Skolimowski, Ewa Piaskowska and James McManus

thenews/1/11/Artykul/200350,Movie-about-Polish-Fighter-Squadron-in-the-making



Haylel
15 Mar 2015  #2
Finally someone makes a movie about our amazing Division 303, about what our people have done for Great Britian and how the British Government thanked us later. I hope for truth in this movie. It's so sad. I hope that £ukasz Palkowski will make this movie as good as "Bogowie".
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Mar 2015  #3
about what our people have done for Great Britian and how the British Government thanked us later

Indeed - everyone there knows the story - there's rather a good film from about 50 years ago about them The airmen were regarded as heroes. They were all given citizenship, homes and a war pension for life. Plenty of threads on here about it.

I hope that £ukasz Palkowski will make this movie as good as "Bogowie".

Yes, that was a well-made film.
Haylel
15 Mar 2015  #4
Heroes? In Poland they are regarded as heroes. I am not sure about Great Britian.
All Polish soldiers, not only the Division, who fought for this country were heroes at the beginning. Later, they were treated as persona non grata. There was even a "Poles go home" campaign. It's hilarious but one of the arguments was that demobilized Polish soldiers stole jobs from the British people. It's mentioned in the books, soldiers themselves confirmed.

Our people fought for different countries not only to get back at Germans but also because they believed that our "allies" would appreciate our doings and help our country later. Churchill and Roosevelt simply sold Poland to Stalin despite our merits in World War II. It is plainly ridiculous that three men decided about the fate of millions of Eastern Europeans.

Polish people are very proud and honourable. And the fact that we hadn't received the invitation to parade in London is a painful memory. Even the Division itself got their invitations in the last moment.

Fortunately, our great pilots refused to march in the parade without other Polish soldiers.

Churchill - man of big words and tiny actions.
Harry
16 Mar 2015  #5
Please learn a little history: Poland and Poles were invited to take part in the London parade. Members of 303 squadron were specifically included.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
16 Mar 2015  #6
It's hilarious but one of the arguments was that demobilized Polish soldiers stole jobs from the British people.

Whilst largely correct, I think it unfair and misleading to suggest all the Brits were ungrateful to the Poles. In this forum alone there have been many British members who have expressed their gratitude for the Poles and were dismayed at the treatment of the Poles after WW2.

Churchill and Roosevelt simply sold Poland to Stalin despite our merits in World War II.

I'd commend you to read the Hansard transcripts for Parliamentary sittings for 27 and 28 February 1945 where the British Government's betrayal of Poland is there for all who care to read it. I've posted a thread on this some months ago.

And the fact that we hadn't received the invitation to parade in London is a painful memory.

Not just a painful memory, but an affront to honour and dignity.

Even the Division itself got their invitations in the last moment.

Not even at the last moment - key Free Polish personnel were invited only, and only after it became apparent to HMG that the Soviets weren't attending. Naturally, such 'invitations' were politely declined.

Notwithstanding much profession to the contrary, there was, and is, no invitation to the heroes of 303.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Mar 2015  #7
And the fact that we hadn't received the invitation to parade in London

Not just a painful memory, but an affront to honour and dignity.

And untrue. They were invited.

Quite a lot of threads on here already.
Haylel
16 Mar 2015  #8
Please learn a little history: Poland and Poles were invited to take part in the London parade. Members of 303 squadron were specifically included.

How I hate when foreigners try to educate me about my country's history. I read books written by Polish and English-speaking authors. Seems like you are the one who doesn't know history or you simply can't read. Division was invited in the last moment. They didn't agree to march with the others out of solidarity with the rest of Polish soldiers who weren't invited.

Arkadiusz Fiedler wrote a book about them, he knew them personally. His son confirmed these things about the parade and how rest of Polish soldiers were treated later. I think he knew that story better than you.

And untrue. They were invited.

Jon, I would like to ask you to stop expressing your opinions about my statements without reading and understanding what I wrote. Only pilots of Division 303 were invited, in the last moment. Our official representatives and rest of the soldiers who fought in Great Britain weren't invited.

Whilst largely correct, I think it unfair and misleading to suggest all the Brits were ungrateful to the Poles.

Sure, not everyone was ungrateful. But it also wasn't a small number of Brits who didn't want the soldiers in their country anymore.
Harry
16 Mar 2015  #9
Division was invited in the last moment.

Care to explain how the official program of the event was publish after 'the last moment'?

They didn't agree to march with the others out of solidarity with the rest of Polish soldiers who weren't invited.

So they wanted a special invitation. All of the other non-commonwealth western allies were perfectly happy with invitations being extended only to their flag troop and representatives of some of their airforces. Only Poles were rude enough to try to dictate who would be invited.

Our official representatives and rest of the soldiers who fought in Great Britain weren't invited.

Rubbish. Official representatives of Poland were invited and so were senior officers from the western command forces and representatives of the western command air force. None of them bothered to turn up.

I really am sick of the memory of the brave pilots of 303 Squadron being ceaselessly linked to complete and utter bollocks spouted by those who are utterly ignorant of history and think they have axes to grind.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Mar 2015  #10
Our official representatives and rest of the soldiers who fought in Great Britain weren't invited.

This is simply untrue and that myth has been debunked many times. Plenty on here about it by the way - whole threads including links to sources.

And who are you to ask someone to stop disagreeing with them on a discussion forum?
Haylel
16 Mar 2015  #11
A weak spot? Perhaps, you're Brits? No, I just don't want to talk with people who clearly have insufficient knowledge yet they try to portray themselves as experts, claiming to have "rather a lot of knowledge" as you, Jon.

I won't go into details because I'm not your teacher.

On December 31st 1944 Stalin created the Provisional Government in Poland. Communistic one, of course. We have already had Government-in-exile in London. Most of the soldiers who fought alongside the Allies were loyal to this one (Division 303, Anders, Sosabowski, Maczek...)

After the conference in Yalta, the Polish Government-in-exile was no longer recognized by the British Government which gave in to Stalin's wishes.

Here goes the parade. Yes, the British Government sent an invitation but to the Polish Provisional Government. For us it looks as if they didn't send it at all. The P.G was a Stalin's puppet, not a representative of Poland. Moreover, communists didn't like the aforesaid soldiers. They didn't want any other delegations except for theirs, to come to the parade.

The British Government had no plans to invite Polish Armed Forces in the West although its soldiers fought in many battles. They were heroes yet they got ignored as if they didn't exist.

British soldiers protested against it. Even Macmillan send an apology to Anders. Letter of protests were sent even to Daily Telegraph.

On May 27th 1946 it became obvious for the British Government that there would probably be no representatives of Poland. Then they started to search for others. Firstly they asked Polish Armed Forces in Britain but they refused because the invitation was only for a few marine officers and pilots. Then they decided to invite the Polish pilots themselves and a few other soldiers. Gen. Kopański wrote that they got the invitations a day before the parade - "the last moment". Moreover, they all were ordered to march under RAF banners, without Polish flags. Why? Because they were unacceptable for Stalin and communists in Poland. And British Government didn't want to anger Uncle Stalin.

The Division 303 agreed to come in the beginning but later when they found out that they couldn't go with Polish banners and that rest of the soldiers were overlooked - they refused. Solidarity, honour and Polish pride. Something you Harry certainly don't know.

Do you understand it right now? The people who should have been invited in the first place where treated as if they were the second, worse choice because communists didn't want to come. It was an insult to our nation. An insult to those heroes. Now you understand why I doubt your knowledge about my country? You even can't understand such a simple thing. There was no true invitation (at least most of us thinks this way). And still you try to show that I am wrong without proper argumentations. I laughed all day, please write more to me. I'd like to see it. But don't worry, it is just Internet. In real life I use books I have at home to prove my historical knowledge. There's no need to do it here.

Well, conclusion? The British government was a b*itch. British politicians gave up their honour and decency because they didn't want to displease Stalin.

All good and bad things that happened later are another story. I wanted to explain to you the parade issue. Please stick to it too if you answer. And read with understanding.

My knowledge about it comes from interviews/articles/books and history lessons in Poland. From such people like Jan Nowak-Jeziorański, Eugenia Maresch, Franciszek Kornicki, Stanisław Kopański, Lynne Olson, and from useful IPN newsletters... Anyways, whoever reads this thread will decide which one of us would be a bit more reliable.
Harry
16 Mar 2015  #12
Such a pity that your version has no grounding at all in historical fact.
timothyjones
16 Mar 2015  #13
It's good that they're making this film. They've done a good deed for the world. However...

There's some background that needs to be noted on some of the Polish pilots. I doubt we'll see this in the film though.

1.) They were a bit abusive towards British women.

2.) They blamed Jews for the German invasion of Poland.
Haylel
16 Mar 2015  #14
Such a pity that your version has no grounding at all in historical fact.

Wow, Harry. If you really think that such sources as interviews with Jan Nowak-Jeziorański, articles written by Eugenia Maresch or Stanisław Kopański's words are not reliable - I'm sorry but you're plainly stupid. All you have to do is check my words in books, articles (even on the Internet if you want!), newsletters... But no, what for? It's better to say empty words. I advise you to read: "Wspomnienia wojenne" by Stanisław Kopański, "Dziennik Polski i Dziennik Żołnierza", "Sprawa honoru" by Lynne Olson or simply ask Polish historians.

Saying that my version has no historical grouding is so silly. I gave a few historical facts that you don't need a special book for. For example: establishment of Polish Provisional Government.
Harry
16 Mar 2015  #15
You didn't just offer Lynne 'accuracy' Olsen as a source did you? Her fiction has been thoroughly and completely debunked!
Haylel
16 Mar 2015  #16
Hmm, that's interesting because things she said about the parade (because that's what we're talking about) were very similar to other opinions I read.

Anyways, if you don't like her, you can check other people. I depend mostly on Polish authors. Your choice.
Harry
17 Mar 2015  #17
She actually claimed this:

Yet, despite its accomplishments in the war, none Of 303′s Pilots took part in the fly-past. None marched in the parade. For they were all Polish - and Poles who had fought under British command were deliberately and specifically barred from the celebration by the British government, for fear of offending Joseph Stalin.

lynneolson.com/a-question-of-honor-excerpt/

Even you agree that she's wrong when she says that.

Oh, and it's not about opinions, it's about historical facts.
Haylel
17 Mar 2015  #18
Harry.

"Yet, despite its accomplishments in the war, none Of 303′s Pilots took part in the fly-past. " True.

"None marched in the parade. " True.

"For they were all Polish - and Poles who had fought under British command were deliberately and specifically barred from the celebration by the British government, for fear of offending Joseph Stalin." She should have elaborated on this one. Read once again what I wrote above and you will know what I mean right now. I really don't want to repeat myself because my fingers are hurting - too much writing on mobile phone.

Yes. Historical facts. I gave logical argumentations, I gave names of certain people, I gave titles of books and newspapers.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
17 Mar 2015  #19
Haylel, don't try to convince Harry of anything. He crusted over decades ago and his versions of history are petrified. I've pointed out his many errors long ago yet he continues to stay in his cage even though the door is open.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
17 Mar 2015  #20
Yes. Historical facts. I gave logical argumentations, I gave names of certain people, I gave titles of books and newspapers.

There's debate as to whether or not 303 squadron were even invited. So far, no one has produced primary evidence to verify matters, nor copy of the invitation, even though our resident gumshoe Harry was tasked to do this. He has claimed that a copy of an itinerary is proof, but it's not.

Without this, any claim that 303 were invited is idle speculation and mere opinion, no matter how the usual suspects care to dress it up.

The axiom that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence is apt when discussing the issue of the VE day celebrations.
Haylel
17 Mar 2015  #21
Haylel, don't try to convince Harry of anything.

Thanks for your information.

There's debate as to whether or not 303 squadron were even invited.

Please read my looong post above. The Division 303 were invited. I haven't found any Polish source that would state otherwise.
It's all about the awful form of this "invitation" and how other soldiers were overlooked. We shouldn't even speak about "invitation", they were rather "allowed" to join the parade.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
17 Mar 2015  #22
Nail on head.

I did read your previous posts and appreciate your breadth of knowledge - may I welcome you to the forum too.

I remember reading somewhere that it was either Urbanowicz or Zumbach who viewed the parade from the sidewalk. I'm sure Sosabowski would have been there too but for the fact he was probably engaged in his new employ at the factory. The imagery here is redolent of the way in which Polish service personnel were treated by HMG in the dying months of the war and post WW2.

They were of course far too polite to complain, but we haven't forgotten about it.

I wonder how the movie will deal with these uncomfortable truths. I'm sure the viewing public in the UK would be shocked at how erstwhile allies and friends were treated.

continues to stay in his cage even though the door is open.

A metaphor for a closed mind? If so, a good one.
Haylel
17 Mar 2015  #23
I did read your previous posts and appreciate your breadth of knowledge - may I welcome you to the forum too

Thank you. I really appreciate that you read my long post.

I'm sure the viewing public in the UK would be shocked at how erstwhile allies and friends were treated.

Exactly! Some people just fail to realize that there is a sad background behind the history of Division 303 and the rest of Polish soldiers who fought alongside the Allies against Germans.

About the parade:
It just pains me when I hear people (especially the ones who behave as if they were experts on Poland) who claim that Polish soldiers were ungrateful or rude because they got "invitations" and they simply refused to come. It was all about solidarity, honour and Polish pride.

I hope that the movie will show also this sad background of history.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569
17 Mar 2015  #24
Thank you. I really appreciate that you read my long post.

A pleasure

there is a sad background behind the history of Division 303 and the rest of Polish soldiers who fought alongside the Allies against Germans.

I'd venture to say that it's not just sad, but absolutely tragic.

In one of your previous posts you touched on the part the British Government had to play in this entire affair. I'd again recommend you to read the transcripts from Hansard for Parliamentary sittings for 27 and 28 February 1945 to give some background and context. The speeches for the Crimea Conference are the relevant ones.

Briefly, these are the written transcripts of what was said by Members of Parliament in England. Churchill makes an appearance, as do other handwringing apologists (including Eden, right at the end). The communist taint to some of the Members is extraordinary. Having read the transcripts, it will become apparent as to why HMG adopted the position it did with the Free Poles after WW2.

It was all about solidarity, honour and Polish pride.

Exactly. These people who claim to live in Poland (and I very much doubt these claims) have no idea about these notions that most Poles, whatever their failings, hold dear.

I hope that the movie will show also this sad background of history.

I hope it will - the mention of Polish names in the opening post is certainly heartening. Western and Communist propaganda is given short shrift by Poles. Sadly, it's adopted by the usual suspects on this forum.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
17 Mar 2015  #25
Such a pity that your version has no grounding at all in historical fact.

Exactly. Did you read the last ambassador's statement on the myth? It made very interesting reading.

You didn't just offer Lynne 'accuracy' Olsen as a source did you? Her fiction has been thoroughly and completely debunked!

Always a mistake to rely on a jourmalist rather than a historian. Especially when there's hard proof showing the assertion that nobody was invited is a myth.

Her latest book is even stranger.
Harry
17 Mar 2015  #26
I haven't read that statement, Jon, could you link to it? Would be nice to see some sourced facts in a thread that is filled with people mistaking their opinions for historical facts and trying to replace their inability to produce facts which support their stance (because such facts do not exist and they know such facts do not exist) with their tired old personal comments.
Haylel
17 Mar 2015  #27
I'd again recommend you to read the transcripts from Hansard for Parliamentary sittings for 27 and 28 February 1945

I will surely search for it. I hope to see you often on this forum!

Exactly. Did you read the last ambassador's statement on the myth? It made very interesting reading.

Ambassador? Care to give us a name instead of empty words?

Moreover, what myth you're talking about? There's no myth here.

Always a mistake to rely on a jourmalist rather than a historian. Especially when there's hard proof showing the assertion that nobody was invited is a myth.

Haven't you noticed that I gave other names like Jan Nowak-Jeziorański? Haha, I bet you even don't know this man.

You pull out ridiculous argumentations and sentences taken out of context.

If you read about Polish history the same way - without understanding as you do all the time here - your "knowledge" is rubbish.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
17 Mar 2015  #28
Haha, I bet you even don't know this man.

I wonder why you think that. His death was a sad loss and the quick interview outside his home that he gave on the tv news on the Sunday afternoon of the EU referendum while the turnout had so far been low probably changed European history.

If you read about Polish history the same way - without understanding as you do all the time here - your "knowledge" is rubbish.

Writing things like that whenever someone disagrees with you just shows you up very badly. I wonder if you're like that in real life? Shudder.

Moreover, what myth you're talking about? There's no myth here.

Use the search function - the issue has been long and oft discussed here.

Interesting how a thread about a new film becomes an excuse for certain people to moan and flame about a whole different issue. By doing that you're just insulting the memory of Division 303 and all the other airmen who fought in that battle. In effect, you're p1ssing on their graves.
Haylel
17 Mar 2015  #29
I wonder why you think that.

I think this way because you have already shown me that your "knowledge" about Poland is doubtful.

Writing things like that whenever someone disagrees with you just shows you up very badly. I wonder if you're like that in real life? Shudder.

You never answer my questions.

Of course, you can disagree with me. But an educated person would use a proper argumentation like "I disagree because..." (especially when we talk about history) and then give me historical facts, name of books, name of authors, quotes etc instead of empty words.

You speak about an ambassador yet you give no name. You speak about "a debunked myth" yet there was no myth. You speak about Poland and "invitation" to the parade yet you fail to see the background of this story and fail to realize why there was no true invitation for us, Poles. You speak about relaying on historians, yet you still give no names. Even native Poles (and foreigners) often disagree with you on this forum, yet you still try to prove that you know better.

You even went so far as to pull out in the Internet the "I have met them" argumentation on another thread.
Now you understand that for me you are just an attention seeker and I don't take you seriously? That's why I won't reply to you anymore unless your current argumentations change. It's just the Internet - people who read it will choose which one of us is more reliable.

If it bothers you that we speak about Division 303 here again, you are free to go. I doubt that anyone reasonable on this forum takes you as an expert on Polish history.
OP jon357 63 | 14,110
17 Mar 2015  #30
your "knowledge" about Poland is doubtful.

Or simply not your particular point of view.

You even went so far as to pull out in the Internet the "I have met them" argumentation on another thread.

Not an argument - a simple statement of fact. I've met several people on your list :-)

If it bothers you that we speak about Division 303 here again, you are free to go.

A strange thing to say, especially since I started this thread about 303. If you want to try and take it off topic to wallow in wounded feelings about the entire war then you are free to go to one of the many threads about that. There are plenty of Polish language fora too.

You speak about an ambassador yet you give no name. You speak about "a debunked myth" yet there was no myth

Yes there was very much a myth - and by the way, the diplomat who wrote about this was one of the last 4 ambasadors. Perhaps you'd like to do a bit of research since you're evidently interested, however there are other threads more appropriate to discuss it in.

here was no true invitation for us, Poles.

Apart from using 'us' which is odd since you were not born then and evidently enjoy vicarious misery, your use of the phrase

true invitation

speaks volumes - as we know, the full invitation issued wasn't on the terms that some would have liked.

Anyway, back to the topic: the film about Division 303. Does anyone know when it is likely to be made?


Home / History / Movie about Polish Fighter 303 Squadron in the making
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.