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Was the Polish/ Lithuanian commonwealth a European power?


jasinski 10 | 62
21 Mar 2010 #1
or just central European power?
Torq 26 | 2,371
21 Mar 2010 #2
Let's see: immense territory reaching from the Baltic to the Black Sea and from Poznan
to Smolensk, kicking the sh*it out of Turks, Swedes and Russians, having Courland
and Ducal Prussia as vassals from 1469 to 1641, capturing Moscow, saving Europe from
islam under Vienna - I could go on.

Yes - I think we can safely say that it was a European Power.

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
OP jasinski 10 | 62
21 Mar 2010 #3
hell yeah. dont forget about the knights either. should of beheaded him. under mighty polish boot. but i think its a very good question.
AnndY - | 20
21 Mar 2010 #4
This was only Rzeplita Obojga Narodów.
In truth the sole influence was greater.
Pope was truly on side with each war we run.
(except the incident in 1635 with the Urban VIII and Kniaziem Mikołajem Sapiehą)
Rzeplita with the connections with Dożami and other nations runs sole international trading with China and India for few hundreds y.
The family's co-ligations was spread from Iberia to Itali - Bona (!) and England, Sweden to the Palestinian soil even with Persia.
In that fact the Europe with a part of Asia was Ours :)
OP jasinski 10 | 62
21 Mar 2010 #5
huh... the pope wasnt on the side of the holy roman empire? the germans? charlemagne?
no pope ever helped poland. Only miezko helped poland.
AnndY - | 20
21 Mar 2010 #6
Yes :))
from April 14, 966!! and that's why the Otton III – Cesar of The Rome Empire 983-1002 took Rome and Poland in to Union.
King Bolesław Chrobry become in the y. 1000 The Friend of The Holly Rome.
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
21 Mar 2010 #7
Yes - I think we can safely say that it was a European Power.

and a world power ;)
OP jasinski 10 | 62
21 Mar 2010 #8
boleslaw chrobry.....yes. we drank beer on their bibles.
AnndY - | 20
21 Mar 2010 #9
We were the most democratic - free minded - and open society in the Europe that time. Go to the museums - look for the last precious X to XVII century - you will find precious Japan Katanas middle-ages swords! Khirku - Ghurki knifes from India. Elbows from Equator Africa.. Aztecs and Incas was our guests. This people have been on Polish soil these days. Even here where I am now - SE. In Lwów u find 3 Cathedral Churches Roman, Bizancjum and Gregorian side by side. Mimbar u find in Kamieniec - now its Roman Church of it, but its still in stone say - there is no God except Allah' and Mahomet is his Prophet.

It was f** respected law and order then.
And a side by my up town in Budziwój we stopped Chingis - Khan!!
Its battlefield beaten earth.
Who else did that?!! :))
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
21 Mar 2010 #10
Was the Polish/ Lithiuanian commonwealth a European power?

Sure.

...and a world power ;)

No, because it didn't have a navy.
AnndY - | 20
21 Mar 2010 #11
The story of Temudżyn capture of Europe is barely known.
I'll tell you a bit of what I know if you like to read.

It was the y. 1200 Big Mongol Empire - Wielka Orda was at the top of conquests.
Temudżyn decide to proceed again to the west.
Slavian tribes between river Ural, Wołga and Don has been at first contact eradicated.
Kchan knows well from China and traders that on west shore of Black Sea behind swamps on north are antique and rich lands.
Ruś was expecting final invasion. Batu - Kachan was ready. Orda was ready.
Slavian first battle ground of this invasion was Zaporoże (you may translate as "such a dam!" or "together as a dam!")

At Poroh on Dniepr river. Dniepr is a huge river. Porohy - rock formation on the river was a big obstacle for horse riders to trespass.

Kniazie didn't expect deception or trick - the battle in there mind should be lead on shallow porohach.
Orda played better than that. They force through Dniepr in the deepest and slowest part of the river, at night. Filled sheep skin pumped with the air as a balloon and attached to the horse and rider was a pontoon.

Kchan surprise was done well. Kchirowy Róg (Kchan's Horn) sounded over battlefield at emerald dawn.. And after the start the battle drums.
This battle is on the Shield now - The Coat of Arms of Zaporoże...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhia

No one has been left alive.
Krzywy Róg's Coat pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Coat_of_Arms_of_Kryvyy_Rih.png&filetimestamp=20080514144752
express this same as Polish Coat of Podkarpacie - Emerald and Blood.
But its in reverse. But I will get to that and why.
The Capital City of Ukraine name Kijew means 'Sticks' - Kije in Polish.
Was such named, after defenders weapons held by woman's, kids and old man.., on straight Kchans order.
The Kijew Coat of Arms was set by the Order of the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller on the Campaign end to memorised Angels as the Only Soul Defenders. They Left The Name, Kijew.

The last big natural obstacle defending access to western country's was behind Batu - Kachan.
Temudżyn in person arrive!! With new Army.
Bathu - Kchan set up his troops between Dniestr and Prypeć river. He killed everybody between those two rivers.
Temudżyn decide to lead invasion by him self. His wish was to ask for that Always Blue Sky.
Hi set up a camp.
This place is called Lwów now.
Polish Henryk II Pobożny runs away, his hide was Legnica behind Odra river!
Kings and Knights from all over Europe was called at the one place...
Temudżyn ordered to cut the head of from coward Henryk II.
At that point the rest of regular Slavian troops was no match for Orda.
Hi sends just 10000 strong by the lid of Captain Ordu. 9 April 1241 Henryk was death.
Henryk II knew about the mobilisation of Christian Army by the lead of Fratres Militiae Templi, Pauperes Commilitones Christi Templique Salomonis.
His last words was "Gorze nam! Gorze!" - "It does burn us!"...
Temudżyn was dealing with reconnaissance of Poland. Has sent small troops all over through one(!) an undefeated gate to Poland. This Place is called Brama Przemyska.

From south of it is deep Oak Forest - the Bór - Sambór, at north Roztocze and swamps of Polesie and Wołyń.

Battles was lead all day and night by peasants all over. The end was always the death of them.
The secret meeting has taken place and was decided;
Setting up gathering point.
Sending the heaviest troops by Pogórze to the Gate.
Knights set up a field to battle if defence of the Gate is crossed.
Temudżyn will see a Cross of Lord on the Always Blue Sky.
Temudżyn moved out!
At The Gate was a Bear Force - foot troops. They did hold!
Temudżyn ordered his troops to throw them self in to the stream of River!
A Lord of Rivers for his Army. This is why the name of it is now the San River.
Captured told that the mobilisation of Orda was at the crescent Moon - on next river to come.
The Knights Templar didn't understand this precise.
The Council has taken place in Tyczyn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyczyn
Less than one week to come and kotlina San-do-miersk 'a at there grace.
Biggest battles has taken place right on the west river side. Tarnobrzeg ("darł na brzeg" - was fighting to take the riverside) and Przeworsk (gallop through wiorst - few miles)

There Coat of Arms is the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podkarpackie_Voivodeship
But now they knew that Temudżyn is mad and waiting for revenge.
The good Star has start to shine.
The Grand Master had an idea.
The Secret Camp was not needed any more.
They let the prisoners escape from Rzeszów.
They have a week for preparations. Let the mad and defeated Temudżyn attack them!
East side plate is coming to Rzeszów having mountains on left and swamp river on right.
They dig Drabinianka side like a fortress. Living just a hand of Bear Force from the Gate to make a noise. Temudżyn was good man stronger.

South from Drabinianka is Biała - "The White". An a shadow of track leading to Tyczyn from plate and to good crossing to skip behind rivers swamps. On the west side of Tyczyn is Budziwój - the name in English is "Waking up Knights".Scouts was placed there. This is by the river side. On South from the crossing is a closing river valley, behind further more on South just mountains and deep forest.

The river valley plate at the West is closed sharply with canyons.
North - West from Rzeszów is sand field and swamps covered by forest.
Temudżyn didn't need even an hour to regroup after river crossing.
Kchan pointed at the plate 14 km long 5 km wide on west side of river.
At North is small hill now named Zwięczyca. Its come from the word Tower.
High, Grand Master was landscaping from there.
The main Bear Force was split between north with Grand Master and South in forest cutting the escape. Horses on left flank cutting access to escape by the river.

The name of the City at this plate is now Boguchwała (Glory in Haven!) And it was just The Red on Coat of Arms till recently...!!

Temudżyn escaped!!
Cut his way out on South.
The fighting took place up in the hills - Czu-dec, mountain Chełm, Twierdza.. Barycz, Blizne. (translate your self :)) )
After this defeat Golden Orda never attack Bramy Przemyśl again.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:POL_Przemyśl_COA.svg
Rzeszów (Reich + polish -ów) becomes a City.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:POL_Rzeszów_COA.svg
The rivers are keep there names.
Templars stayed. There Sign are to find all around Podkarpacie.
pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Templarsign.jpg&filetimestamp=20071013070440
COA of Podkarpacie is reversed - The Knights decided what's gonna be and how!! :))
Poland after defeat and such victory disgraced itself.
Ukraine become no-man's land, long after King Władysław £okietek was banned and needed to ask Pope for mercy. Never fully Restored.

Till the King Kazimierz III Wielki Poland loses influence and territory.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
21 Mar 2010 #12
The Capital City of Ukraine name Kijew means 'Sticks' – Kije in Polish.
Was such named, after defenders weapons held by woman's, kids and old man.., on straight Kchans order

How was it called in V-XI centuries then? Chupacabra? And Kijiw is thought to come from a word "kyj", which means a "spear".

The Kijew Coat of Arms was set by the Order of the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller on the Campaign end to memorised Angels as the Only Soul Defenders. They Left The Name, Kijew

They left the name? ;) What else did they leave? Show me a single source that they were there at all. It is something completely new to me.

Slavian first battle ground of this invasion was Zaporoże (you may translate as “such a dam!” or “together as a dam!”)
At Poroh on Dniepr river. Dniepr is a huge river. Porohy – rock formation on the river was a big obstacle for horse riders to trespass.

Zaporizhya means "behind the river barriers", nothing of "together" or "such a dam".
How could porohy be an obstacle for horses to pass???? Unless you decide to use horses like ships to travel down the river ;)

the battle in their mind should be lead on shallow porohach.

Exactly, they were the best place to cross the river for being shallow, not an obstacle. It was hindrance for boats.
AnndY - | 20
21 Mar 2010 #13
kij - e - w; that's a "stick in the hand". spear - spira - dzida (the same word for all slavian) - włócznia - from the Wój i Cznia (zamiar) - a Knight to Led 'it'.

rest see 4 ur self.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
21 Mar 2010 #14
rest see 4 ur self

I thought so, thank you ;)

kij - e - w; that's a "stick in the hand".

So which part means "the hand"? "w" or "e"? ;) In additions your first statement said "sticks".
asik 2 | 220
22 Mar 2010 #15
And Kijiw is thought to come from a word "kyj", which means a "spear".

kyj or (pol) kij means stick not spear!!

Zaporoże (you may translate as "such a dam!" or "together as a dam!")

Zaporizhya means "behind the river barriers", nothing of "together" or "such a dam".

Do you even know what's dam??
Here for you to learn: thefreedictionary.com/Dam
That's why it is possible it could be called by some "such a dam".
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Mar 2010 #16
kyj or (pol) kij means stick not spear!!

Here is some info:

Trans.: According to one of the name's origin versions - "Kyjiv" comes from "kyj" - the symbol of the ruler's power, might. It means Kyjiv - the city, where is located "kyj", synonim to the word "capital" (place of the ruler's throne). Thus, it should be taken into consideration that people could have started to call by the name "kyj" their ruler, which later historians began to treat as a proper name of the ruler - Kyj (one of the 3 legendary brothers and their sister - founders of the city).

Having said that the etymology of the word has the following meanining depending on the epoch you are talking about: кіл - pole, stick (as you said in regards to the defense system of the city) and жезл, булава, скипетр - basically, symbols of power (such as scepter). So we both are correct.

Do you even know what's dam??
Here for you to learn

Thank you for a lesson on what a dam is. Fortunately, I had a previous knowledge on this matter ;)

Zaporoże can be translated as ""territory beyond the rapids" (rapids = poroże, porohy)That's why it is possible it could be called by some "such a dam"

Please, link the two definitions you presented here. AnndY added also "together as a dam". In what way can one make such a translation: from "beyond the rapids" into "such a dam" or "together as a dam"? Though "beyond the dam" or as I (an amature interpreter) said "behind the river barriers" is more appropriate translation. Nothing of "together" or "such" at the least ;)
z_darius 14 | 3,969
22 Mar 2010 #17
yj or (pol) kij means stick not spear!!

It's a little more (but not much) complicated than that. uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D0%B9 The word does not necessarily mean "stick".

As for the name of the city, it's neither a stick nor a spear, but the name of a legendary founder of the city. His name was Kyj.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Mar 2010 #18
the name of a legendary founder of the city. His name was Kyj

You are right, z_darius.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
22 Mar 2010 #19
or just central european power?

It controlled the grain, salt and cattle trade as well as supplied 2/3rds of ship building materials, it had the most innovative military (first serious handbooks on artillery were written by Poles) and could to a huge extent influence Austria, every country in HRE of the German nation, all Ruthenian countries, Low Countries, Baltic region etc, it was an european power.

As for Kiev it names comes from goat turd.
Nathan 18 | 1,363
22 Mar 2010 #20
first serious handbooks on artillery were written by Poles

I know that Poles were the first Mars inhabitants, but hey, one learns something new everyday :)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
22 Mar 2010 #21
Surprised? Just because your third world shythole of a country even became aware of itself only 100~ years ago doesnt mean everyone was like you peasants, when you little savages lived in huts of straw and mud we already had more then half a millenium of history behind us.
Harry
22 Mar 2010 #22
when you little savages lived in huts of straw and mud we already had more then half a millenium of history behind us.

Half a millenium of annoying people until they invaded your country and kicked the living sh!t out of you to be precise. And Poles wonder why none of their neighbours like them!
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Mar 2010 #23
Half a millenium of annoying people

They were just jealous and hated us because we were so smart, civilized and beautiful.
The c*nts couldn't stand it.

until they invaded your country and kicked the living sh!t out of you

Nec Hercules contra plures. We fell to the brutal force and numbers, kinda like Rome fell
to barbarians.

And Poles wonder why none of their neighbours like them!

None of our neighbours like us? Well - DILLIGAF???

We are Polish - the Royal Tribe of Piast, the Antemurale of Christianity! You can love
us or hate us, we don't care. Our land is the nest of White Eagle and Saint Virgin Mary
is our queen. We are completely indifferent to some puny, inferior tw*ts liking us or not.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
22 Mar 2010 #24
hey, jak tam pogoda w Ustce, dalej wieje? lol
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Mar 2010 #25
Żadna siła, żadna burza, nie odbierze Ustki nam.
Nasza flota, choć nieduża, strzeże czujnie portu bram! :-)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
22 Mar 2010 #26
We are Polish - the Royal Tribe of Piast, the Antemurale of Christianity! You can love
us or hate us, we don't care. Our land is the nest of White Eagle and Saint Virgin Mary
is our queen. We are completely indifferent to some puny, inferior tw*ts liking us or not.

Is that the English translation for the Polish national anthem?
Torq 26 | 2,371
22 Mar 2010 #27
No, but it should be ;)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
22 Mar 2010 #28
Is that the English translation for the Polish national anthem?

good one lol
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
22 Mar 2010 #29
Żadna siła, żadna burza, nie odbierze Ustki nam.
Nasza flota, choć nieduża, strzeże czujnie portu bram! :-)

LMAO! :))
Ironside 48 | 9,826
22 Mar 2010 #30
We are Polacy and Sarmaci - the great royal tribe of Piast, the antemurale of Christianity.
You can love us or hate us it doesn't matter.
Our land is the eagle nest were beauty rest.
We know our worth and the fools and dark friends are our enemy's, their barking will not change our true nature.


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