Polish hatred towards Jews...

Excuse me? That comment was a bit of an exaggeration! No one here has any hateful agenda against Poles. There's an overall assumption in Israel that the European-Christian world has prejudices against us and that in Poland it's part of the culture. That might be incorrect but it doesn't follow from that we have any hate against Europe or Poland. It's just a grudging acceptance of the fact that we're not always well-liked. If blacks in Alabama say that whites don't like them it doesn't mean the blacks have a Ku Klux Klan mentality.


I guess you mean the 1940s. In the '30s, before the german invasion, Poland had a generally anti-semitic environment – certainly in the political sphere. You might say that was not typical of most Poles, but that was the impression that stuck. I don't think there's any reason for Jewish-Polish hostility today and I don't think there really is any.

I would agree that groups of Israeli school kids who travel to Poland should be given a more accurate impression of current Polish attitudes. More contact between Polish and Israeli youth would be a good way of doing that.

I wonder if you have any idea who szmalcownicy were? Can you explain who was this person? What did he gain? What did he risk? Was he Polish or Jewish? His possible place in society?

Also, try to describe a "successive generation" member of such a family. We would get a better understanding into this mysterious szmalcownik.

I wonder if threads like this actually help decrease the alleged hatred or reinforce it. Likewise, how does it affect alleged Jewish hatred of Poles?

It doesn't have any effect on that, for 2 reasons:
1. There aren't more than 2 or 3 Jews in the world who see this site, and I'm one of them.
2. Jews don't hate Poles.

Not necessarily, Torq. I'll leave szmalcowników alone for a moment since I asked Świtek to explain a little about them, but I can give you a number of examples of people who openly held views we would consider antisemiric before the war, yet when the Germans rolled in and locked up the Jews in ghettos, turned out to be their rescuers and supporters. Antisemitism in pre-war Poland had much to do with economics and competition and not with hatred. Reading Calek Perechodnik's(a Jewish ghetto policeman in Otwock) journal one is surprised, as he was, that the known antisemites he knew of, two brothers, helped him without reward over and over. A very hard read, where Jews and Poles would have to fight it out who was worse. This book is in Polish only so far, since the previous edition has been nulled. Bizarre situation, since both editions were released by the same publisher from the Jewish Historical Institute in Warsaw.

Zofia Kossak of Żegota was an antisemite, yet was instrumental in saving many Jewish kids along with Jews and Poles when they faced death. Many others called for aiding their fellow men, as at that point there was no reason to compete.

I'll believe that on general, but the amount of posts I've read on other sites suggest one or two don't. According to some it is as if Poland invited Hitler in on purpose and then sat back and enjoyed it.

Glad you're an intelligent chap, Yehudi. Are you based in Poland?

Oh come on, she was lucky. A Polish antisemitic monster who happened to save few Jewish children (totally accidentally I suppose).


I've read tons of sh!t spilled on Kossak on that forum and many, many others.
She was nothing. Poles were nothing.

Netherlanders were the heroes. Holly people of Denmark! were the biggest heroes (they are the best in the Jewish 'who helped the best' poll - they saved all of their Jews, all 8,000!)

Poles were the worst mo-fos. Period.

Have a nice day those saved in POLAND by a Polish dumb, catholic POS. Abe Foxman included.

Yeah I can bet, that in your imaginery life ALL Poles should have have taken arms (wich even the home army didn't have plenty enough of) and rise up against the Germans (helping Jews alone was a death sentence) and freed all Jews back to their safe homes (wich weren't since Poles were shot out at streets and Germans could walk into a building without any problems)

Could you possibly think of where the underground army could have put thoose Jews IF they got liberated?

Neither Soviets or other Allies helped when the Home Army was giving out information on what was happening and they CLEARLY Couldn't do it ALONE!

You gotta be really... ill save that for myself!

You didn't get the irony in his post, G. Relax.

Ynet often has articles like that. The Dutch are not spared either depending which Jews are speaking:


jcpa.org

Anyway, Ynet takes turns, today Poland, tomorrow some other country, everyone gets a black eye, even Jews.

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Articles are articles, of course.
What I meant and quoted was a user's comment, and in THOSE you can read crap like the above over and over again. Doesn't matter you give examples and explanations of the difference in Poland and the Netherlands or Denmark.

Doesn't matter you explain that the Danes were considered Aryans and their king could have worn Star of David arm-band cuz the Germans would have NEVER hurt him, doesn't matter that each Jew shipped to Sweden had to pay for it - whenever an article about Poland is published, sobs like the above show up and start their usual crap:

Poles were worst than the Nazis
Poles were cheering when a Jew was killed
Poles welcomed the death camps
Poles knew what was going in on the death camp yet they did NOTHING about it (sic!)
Denmark saved all their Jews!
AK murdered the Jews (happily)
Poles didn't help Ghetto Uprising's fighters... etc...etc...

Same people, same comments, over and over again. I think they don't even read the article, just copy and paste their ********.

You know that, you read those, too.

Have a good day Jola :),
E_T

Compare that: ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3774804,00.html


*puzzled*

That throws me:


So...Jews who actually suffered the Nazis and the Holocaust have generally a better view of the Germans than younger ones who never experienced it? Whoa.....

The survey is a bit suspicious since it probably had an agenda it was trying to promote. So I don't know how accurate it is.

But assuming it is accurate, I can think of two reasons the younger generation might be less friendly to Germany:
1. The older generation was more European in its orientation and felt more affinity to German culture. That awareness of the pre-Nazi german culture makes them aware that there is more than one side to Germany. The younger generation has no cultural connection to Germany.

2. The older generation has more of a diaspora mentality, so they might feel a need to accept and be accepted by the European world and therefore are more receptive to German "repentance". The younger generation couldn't care less whether Germans have changed or not. Who talks about the germans? The only relevance of Germany to them is their historical role.

Probably....


Well, that isn't quite the case either, isn't it!:

usatoday.com/news/world/2007-04-01-german-jews_N.htm


Or this:

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3793436,00.html


Yeah...totally disinterested....suuuuuuuure!

I can't agree with you that NO ONE hase a hateful agenda against Poles. I can agree with you that most Jews don't. I just don't see it in every day life. I have experienced unwarrented (from some, not all) in real life and especially on the net. I just can't agree with you when you say that no onehas a hateful agenda against the Poles. I know that there are some. Go back and read that post about Abraham Foxman who tells the students whom he takes to Poland that they're in a hostile country, don't go outside the hotel, etc.

I've known lots of African Americans who don't have that KKK complex. I also have known way too many who have. There is always some demogog in any ethnic group who will fan the flames of hatred. You and I have to work against that.

See, saying Poland had a generally anti-semetic environment is the idea you're promoting, whether or not you intend to. If it was so anti-semetic, was it not also anti-Gypsy, anti-Tatar, etc? Poland was among the most tolerant of nations, allowing minorities their schools, houses of worship and so on.

That impression that stuck wasn't the only impression that stuck. There are so many Jews who have the impression (because they lived through it) that Poland was very welcoming and warm to minorities. It's just that today, there are some (Foxman) who seem to want to stamp that out. Why?

If it would benefit the Isreali students to have more contact with Polish youth, why does Foxman do what he can to prevent that?

Where did you study history Ma?

/wiki/March_1968_events

Not talking about 1968, honey. I'll buy you that can of Brasso if you pay attention. I'm talking about over the centuries.

Well, hence my example...not only are there alot of jewish stories out there who have less than favourable memories of their time in Poland under the Nazis but that there is a much more fresh imprint what could influence current opinions.

After all 1968 is not as far back as 1945...and many Jews might remember that too.
The topic is "Polish hatred towards Jews" and not "Polish hatred towards Jews in WWII".

Official, government supported anti-semitism and expellation of Jews...you can hardly expect that to be without consequences.

Sure, but I don't see a thread about Polish love and tolerance for minorities, also.

"...showed that Poland, with its strong nationalist traditions and a civil society, especially the Church, that had never been fully repressed, was the weakest element in the Eastern Bloc."

Sweet!

Yeah...wonder why....

worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Total/Polish%20Antisemitism.htm

....so "warm" and "welcoming"!
Please keep your copy and paste to less than 100 words

because all o' y'all don't wanna seem to hear about or talk about that.

Compare that to 300,000 Israelis that traveled to Turkey. I don't think that means we have a big affinity to Turkish culture. Ok, it's closer and cheaper. But 25,000 is no big deal.

True, there are Jews from Russia who prefer Germany to Israel. That's because their Jewish identity is pretty flimsy. And there are Israelis who live in Germany, but since they're in Germany and not here, they have no influence on local attitudes. And they aren't looked at here as people to emulate.


You're dreaming. Those who lived through Poland's "warm and welcoming" period died more than 300 years ago. Poland's kings welcomed the Jews in the middle ages because of commercial reasons. That has nothing to do with the attitudes of the regular people (no one asked them either) in that period or later. And when Poland gained independence after WWI, anti-Jewish feeling hit an all-time high. I don't see how anyone can deny this. With all due respect to today's Poland, it was not warm and welcoming to Jews since about the 17th century.

Not only closer and cheaper but not being the country of the "Täter" either!
I don't find it comparable...

And I really find it astounding that Germany is so popular with Jews, especially Israelis.
It's something I can hardly understand..

yehudi

No, I don't think I dreamt those episodes. Anyway, Poland was a multi-ethnic and multi-faith country. In the 18th century, ethnic Poles constituted 45% of the population. The minorities had their schools, their religions and their businesses. That's all I'm saying.

I can't understand it either. Its a strange world.

Erm...correct me if I'm wrong but Poland got re-established in 1919 only.
This "warm" and "welcoming" Poland you speak of must be that of Prussia, Russia and Austria since 1795 then..;)


*nods*
A beer?

I gotta drive home. I'll have coffee.

Yes, and the years 1700-1799 are considered the 18th century however final partition of Poland-Lithuania was nut until 1795. the 4 years you speak of can hardly be viewed as a 18th century.

Well, then that was the second partition she speaks of...still Prussia, Russia and Austria!

No, even after the second partition Poland still existed as a country, smaller perhaps but still there.