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Polish hatred towards Jews...


PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
21 Nov 2009 #661
I trust in Nomaderol, he said that Iran most likely already has them. That could be so. Seanus, you got to face reality. Who gives Israel the right to have them? Why, we do, of course! The world gives them the right. No one is going to give that right to Iran, so you can forget about it, Seanus, You, Joe and Cheehaw will never see that happen.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Nov 2009 #662
But Iran will never get them, right? But tell me why Israel should have them and not Iran?

You trust in Nomaderol and then you said "that could be so". You are on rare form today, ;) ;)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
21 Nov 2009 #663
Seanus, it's simple and I already told you. The world will not tolerate Iran. If they do have them, like Nomaderol thinks, they will be invaded sooner or later. If they don't have them, best not get them, and they can save themselves a ground invasion, maybe. No one but you, Cheehaw and Joe want Iran to have them and that's that. You are going to have to accept that about the world, Seanus.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Nov 2009 #664
Another pretext. They are not gonna announce that they have them, are they? They want a peaceful source of energy. Who says that we want Iran to have them? We are talking about an even playing field here. How can you invade with no real evidence?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
21 Nov 2009 #665
The world will not tolerate Iran. If they do have them, like Nomaderol thinks, they will be invaded sooner or later

Oh please...who is "The World"?
The US with their poodle UK again? They are overstretched in Iraq and Afghanistan already...and Iran is neither one of those, it's a totally different calibre.

I see an Israeli air strike at the reactor site (of course supported from Washington), but that's about it!
I doubt Iran is anyway near having a ready nuke and even if it would have one they won't use it. Israel has many more and they have nothing left to lose....but both govs need external enemies like nothing else to keep the focus off their internal problems.

Israel doesn't need to adress their Pali problem as the always "poor, threatened, victim" and Achmadinejad keeps people rallying around him who would otherwise had shown him the boot already....

It's all facade and politics in the end and no, no country is in the position to successfully invade this huge country and take it over.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
21 Nov 2009 #666
How can you invade with no real evidence?

By softening them up and placing our troops there?

Maybe so, BB, but don't be surprised if there's an invasion of Iran at some point in the future. Maybe diplomacy could work, there's still a chance on the diplomatic front.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
21 Nov 2009 #667
By softening them up and placing our troops there?

You are pulling our legs, aren't you....

Maybe so, BB, but don't be surprised if there's an invasion of Iran at some point in the future.

Oh I would be surprised because I doubt the US is that stupid, especially as the last catastrophes in Iraq and Afghanistan show that you are not easily able to do far away invasions (successful) anymore...

You would pay for it dearly, and it would probably spell the end of the american foreign policy for a long time, so I would be very, very surprised! :)

That is a fight you can't possible win....a quick air strike (or several of them) is the best you can do!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Nov 2009 #668
Placing your troops on sovereign Iranian territory? Haven't you learned anything from Iraq? How will you know, PP? Even Israeli high-tech equipment can't penetrate deep into the bunkers and into secret facilities. No penetration, no evidence, simple!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
22 Nov 2009 #669
It all depends on what Mossad has to tell us in the coming years...they will be the first to know and can report on the presence of nuklear arms. I trust in them and we should listen and act on the information they provide.

Maybe Iran will give up it's folly and work toward being a force of peace in the region? They need to realize it's a no win situation. They best cooperate and work toward being an oaisis of peace in the region.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
22 Nov 2009 #670
I trust in them and we should listen and act on the information they provide.

Who are you? Their poodle???

Maybe Iran will give up it's folly and work toward being a force of peace in the region? They need to realize it's a no win situation. They best cooperate and work toward being an oaisis of peace in the region.

It's all about the Pali-problem. As long that isn't cleared there will be no acceptance of Israel in this region ever...Iran/Achmadinejad is only a symptom, not the reason...nor is he needed for the peace process.

As I said, just a big deflection to change the focus away from the real problem!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
22 Nov 2009 #671
BB, even if you don't like or agree, you are going to have to realize Israel is there to stay and it must be accepted by others in the region because there isn't anything anyone can do to change it. It's reality. Israel is not going away.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #672
And how will they know exactly, PP? OCL was peace, was it? You know nothing of the Mossad, do you? Germany and Russia still have some sympathies with the Iranian position, PP. Don't write them off.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
22 Nov 2009 #673
BB, even if you don't like or agree, you are going to have to realize Israel is there to stay

I don't care!
It's Israel which should ask itself those questions if they prefer to live in a fortress, walled in, as isolated pariahs hated by their neighbours or if they want peace and normal relationships.

For peace they just have to give something...but right now it seems they prefer to put their future with their army and their nukes.

It's their decision Plastic, not mine nor anybody elses.

PS: I wonder what they will do if the Palis declare their independence (should be quite soon i've heard)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

...
In November 2009, Palestinian officials were reported to be preparing the ground for asking for recognition of a Palestinian State from the Security Council. The state was envisioned to be based on the 1967 Green Line as an international border with Israel and East Jerusalem as its capital. The plan was reported to have support from Arab states, Russia and the UN Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon. [23]

haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1111372.html

...
Fayyad said last week that the Palestinian Authority intends to establish a de-facto state by 2011, despite failing peace talks.

We have decided to be proactive, to expedite the end of the occupation by working very hard to build positive facts on the ground, consistent with having our state emerge as a fact that cannot be ignored," Fayyad told the Times of London. "This is our agenda, and we want to pursue it doggedly."

According to Fayyad, the idea would be to "end the occupation, despite the occupation."

It seems at least one side is sick of all that empty talk of peace as new settlements are build every day...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #674
Yossi Melman gives a lengthy presentation on Youtube on this issue of Iran and their search for the bomb.

PP, there seems to be evidence that Iran has the capability to form a nuke. Why then doesn't Israel carry out a pre-emptive strike? Oh, it's not the time, right? Well, when is the time?
sjam 2 | 541
22 Nov 2009 #675
Why then doesn't Israel carry out a pre-emptive strike?

The US pleads for Israeli restraint:

In May, CIA chief Leon Panetta was sent to Israel reportedly to warn Israeli leaders not to launch a preemptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities without permission from the U.S., though he offered no proof the U.S. had an effective strategy to stop Iran from getting the Bomb.

However:

Hillary Clinton refused yesterday to rule out a pre-emptive Israeli military strike on Iran. It was the first time that a senior member of the Obama Administration had openly discussed such a possibility.

So fingers crossed.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #676
I hope sb issues a strike on Clinton. She is a pitiful excuse for a human being and a two-faced bi*ch! I wonder how much Israeli c*ck she has sucked. She makes me so angry, sorry. When you see what happened to Palestinians last year, you get a sense of what they are put through. I know it cuts both ways but that was VERY graphic.

Apparently, we are looking at Feb 2010. This seems to be the consensus amongst sources I have read but Obama can stall that. He just needs to make the right noises at the right time. Attacking Iran would be a major mistake.
sjam 2 | 541
22 Nov 2009 #677
Attacking Iran would be a major mistake.

IMO Iran being allowed a deliverable nuclear weapon would be an even bigger mistake.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #678
Well, where's the pre-emptive strike? Did you watch the Melman presentation? There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Iran could be on for a 2011 completion. It's just a game IMHO.
sjam 2 | 541
22 Nov 2009 #679
It's just a game IMHO.

Let's hope so for Iran's sake :-)))
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #680
And for Israel's :) You'd find Hezbollah (remember them?), Hamas and other Muslim groups laying siege on Israel. Don't forget the Shanghai Group consisting of China and Russia. America, with huge amounts of help (42-country alliance), cannot even defeat a group of weirdie-beardies (frail old men) after 8 years of fighting them. Heck, even the great Nazi war machine was dismantled after 6.

All this talk of Iran may have meant they have taken their eye off the ball. Syria has vast potential there too.
yehudi 1 | 433
22 Nov 2009 #681
Syria has vast potential there too.

Syria's potential is dependent on Iran. They are a client state. According to newspapers we bombed their nuclear facility before it became operable.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
22 Nov 2009 #682
According to newspapers we bombed their nuclear facility before it became operable.

Did you or didn't you?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #683
So why is Iran such a different kettle of fish, yehudi? Yossi Melman said that there is clear actionable intel on which to base a legitimate strike. Iran is passing up a golden opportunity to send uranium to Russia. Russia has been a partner of theirs in the past and it would seem to be a win-win for them to do it but they seem to value defiance more.

What is the rough percentage of Israelis in favour of a strike against Narantz and Qom, for example?
yehudi 1 | 433
22 Nov 2009 #684
Did you or didn't you?

I personally didn't bomb it. Of that i am sure.
What do you think, that every Israeli is privy to secret military information? I know as much as you do.

What is the rough percentage of Israelis in favour of a strike against Narantz and Qom, for example?

I don't think anyone here would say it's not justified, but the question is if it's doable and what the results would be strategically and politically. So I would leave it up to the experts. What is clear is that the US and Europe will not be able to stop Iran through diplomacy and they won't even try a military option. So either we do it or no one does.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #685
That seems to be an accurate assessment of the position. Obama knows the stakes but I don't see diplomatic engagement happening any time soon as he has angered Ahmedinejad with some of his wayward comments. Carrot and stick is just patronising.
scrappleton - | 830
23 Nov 2009 #686
Heck, even the great Nazi war machine was dismantled after 6.

The Nazis didn't hide in caves, Porkchop. And you are off topic yet again.. nothing the title references the US but look how many times you've brought the country. Can you not follow the rules? It's easy, start at the beginning and follow through, just like all those sandwiches you have apparently consumed.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
23 Nov 2009 #687
She is an Azeri Turkic as half of Iran is Azeri. But, I think she is a double-agent who worked for, maybe, Armenia? Interesting thing is that she added many countries to her claims, but, not Russia... I found this strange as it is unimaginable to think Russia wasnt involved in any such operations while Iran, Israel, Turkey, Pakistan, etc were collobrating.

Ahmadinejad is Azeri also, no?...Sibel Edmunds: an interesting case...Could be double agent, yes...As for Russians, they also knew 911 was coming and tried to warn US through back channels...Elements in German intelligence were 'in the know' also...So how could the US Government be so dumb...No way...'Inside job' as they say.
caprice49 4 | 224
23 Nov 2009 #688
It's Israel which should ask itself those questions

They've clearly forgotten all the suffering their people endured - presumably that's why it is ok to treat immediate neighbours they way they do.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Nov 2009 #689
Scrappy, you have seen 2 pics which show nothing of my weight, what's your deal?

Don't take isolated statements out of context, please. Read the full post.
jonni 16 | 2,485
23 Nov 2009 #690
Ahmadinejad is Azeri also, no?

No.

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