Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ?

And now.......HERE'S THE CLINCHER QUESTION: FREDERIC CHOPIN - POLE OR FRENCHMAN????

Born: Zelazowa Wola, Poland (the last time I checked-:) )

Parents: father a Frenchman, Nicolas Chopin, mother Polish

I'm waiting for the jury to return it's verdict. Tick, tick, tick....

He...do we have a frenchman on board to ask??? :)

Wish we did-:) I'm dying of curiosity.

He belongs both to Poland and France. But definitely his place of birth was what shaped him as an artist.

AAAMENN, Bart! He all but reinvented, that is, revived, the mazurka as Poland's national dance, not to mention the waltz. In fact, so much a Polish patriot was he considered, that yet another Polish nationalist and later premiere (plus Chopin interpreter extraordinaire) Jan Ignace Paderewski called Chopin 'Our greatest national treasure!' Schumann, not a Pole by any stretch, called Chopin's polonaises 'guns buried in flowers'-:)

Indeed, Chopin may well have been the greatest Pole of them all, since unlike Mickiewicz, Conrad and others, his language is universal and transcends translation!

He was a madman.

I think the best gift a great person (especially whose quality works are of high complexity) should give to the world is to conjure his personal origin as messy as possible. The more countries which seek to claim him with 'irrefutable' evidences the better it is for the sake of mass enlightenment. How many less Poles would ardently read some ridiculously mental Nietzschean books if there were a universally recognized 'fact' that he were just another sausage-mongering krautlander? The same, there would be a significant decrease of interest in Chopin from the French and the Francophone (that is a lot) if Chopin had lived his entire life in Warsaw and his father were just another pure-blooded Polak panek. Music, sadly, is not and never a universal language (such has not been created), and without his conquest of Paris and its powerful publicity (taste empire), Chopin's genius might even face the crisis that all the works of Mickiewicz have faced so far. That our dear little Fred did have a Frenchy father is truly a bless to the world indeed!

To most ‘reasonable’ non-specialized folk (99% of mankind), there is no reason to grit their teeth through a complex work of art, science or philosophy other than a strong sense of affiliation (similarities in character, gender, class and most usually, nationality). Thus sometime I feel we have not learned enough wisdom from great men and women of the past not only because of our own hereditary stupidity, but also because those grand boys and girls could not manage to be all-in-one enough (e.g. a perfectly uber Nietzsche is the one which Poles, Gerries, Somalians can all consider ‘one of us’, he reigns England six month and begs in Darfur for the rest, he is a loved public figure by day and a computer nerd by night, he is both a man and woman, enjoys plenty of sex but manages to be impotent at the same time...etc)

The world would be a much better place if the great take care to round themselves up (it's pity they even fail that in their autobiography, eh)!

Nietzsche, it turns out, for all his anti-German self loathing and fulminating against his own lot ('Nestbeschmutzer' as the Germans call such types), has been criminally misrepresented, perhaps the most misrepresented German philosopher ever. Unlike Heidegger, for instance, whose support of the Nazis was genuine coin of the realm, Nietzsche was certainly NOT an antisemite!!!! His sister, Elisabeth Nietztsche-Foerster, married to an arch-Jew hater, was the culprit who re-wrote his writings later in life and made him (like Wagner) a sort of poster boy for the Hitler.

A farce beyond description and grossly untrue.

Who cares if he liked Jews or not!...He was a madman, certifiable schizophrenic...Ever read his writings like 'The Anti-Christ'?...If you like madmen, instead savor the paintings of Van Gogh.

Well pre-syphillis days weren't too bad.. He's interesting and he gives some good criticism of Christianity. When it comes to philosophers he might be one of the easier to read. The important thing is not put old Fred on a pedestal, take everything he said as gospel.. i.e. base a political movement around him.

OK, that's reasonable.

"Have you ever read 'The Anti-Christ'......"

As a matter of fact I have-:) Nietzsche, like most great authors, loses considerably in translation. I presume you didn't read him then in the original, because if you had, his meaning comes across as less of a tirade in German than it does in English. To be frank, I couldn't imagine Nietzsche in Polish, anymore than Mickiewicz in English, or even German, although 'Pan Tadeusz', f.ex., has been translated into most major languages.

he was a GOD

No Frenchman at hand regarding Chopin but a leaned Polish woman confirmed to me that his father was definitely French and her Polish pronunciation of his name is basically the French one:

English: sho - pihn the last syllable have the nasal vowel sound with the terminal -n- not pronounced.

rmh

Wasn't he the one who claimed Nordics were superior? He was some kind of eugenecist person I know.

No he was no Eugenicist.

People should Really take into account the TIMES these occurances took place, say for example Nietzsche, 'Poland' did not exist then, him saying that he is a Polish nobleman, might just be referring to the German Pioneer settlers of the East.

PS: Theere has been some things happen in the past in which some-people do not have any idea, such as the Polonization of German farmers in Latgallia(a part of Courland, a fiefdom at the time of the area what is now, Dineburg, Latvia) , in some cases Germans were willingly Polonized (ie. a Industrous German farmer receives the title of Polish Nobility)

Same goes for the 'battle at Grrr... ble Tannenberg' , that occurance in 1410, most those people who fought against the Teutonic Order would definately not consider themselves Poles(especially if they saw what a Pole today is) ... Balts, Kaszebs, and other peoples.

He is considered to be German, even tho that BB might be right that he wanted to consider himself Polish (not being one really) but for me he would be Polish enough as I think it is the "soul" that matters. There is really no logic telling someone he is a nationality when he/she clearly say "NOT"

But on the other hand his sister was a pro-Nazi type of lady, but on the other hand again which Nazi would want this philosopher to be Polish?

makes me really think about it
*scratches his head*

so... its like Unity Mitford was a Hitler-loving London girl, and as the story goes her sister(with whom she shared her room in her earlier years) was a hardcore Stalinist.

I prefer scientists anyhow...we should swap the other half of Coppi for Nietschikowski! :)

Let me guess. You know all this because you went back in time and read the minds of all these people?

u sayin ima gypsy or sumthink ?

no, I read it on a German nationalist forum.

I think old fred was a citizen of the world type..The aristocracy was all he agreed with and wanted to belong to. German or Polish would be seen as herd division to him.

But in general im with "Mak" above all the way, he seems to have hit the nail right on the head.

one can`t mistake if declare any German to be in fact Polish or Serbian. It is so due to notorious historical facts of forcible germanziation. If germanization wasn`t forcible we could talk about German ethos. But, considering violent nature of process we must admit that Germany in fact does not exist. Its invisible state, false by all means, territory that awaits to be liberated and dictatorship that have to be replaced by true democracy

... and now, he is dead- like God.

;)


what are you on? change your dealer anyway, he puts some dangerous stuff in "product"

I think its just the tap water down that valley, downstream from Tschernobyl

Friedrich Nietzsche was Polish. Guaranteed. 100%

How about his brother, Pierre? He always introduced himself as 'Ja, Pierre Nietzsche' :)

To my knowledge, he was German but we all know how erroneous conventional wisdom can be ;)

Me either. When I read the thread's title, I couldn't have fallen asleep for two nights in a row: I started to doubt whether it was day or night, whether I was on the Earth or some remote planet gathering strawberries and going nuts. But then your quote, Marek, brought me back. Thank you : )

Asking a question about philosophers's nationalities is a mistake.
:)

Thread attached on merging:
What influence on Polish culture have had F. Nietzsche?

"Chistian mentality of a slave", "anemic interests in history" and "life" on the other side.
He also said that the development of a strong people must not to be stunted by the weak people.
"Chistianity" and "philosophic tradition" turned from real world to "heaven" and the world of ideas. But a "real' world is a world of delusion.

What do you think about Nietzsche's ideas?
Are they important for history or philosophy?
I will rather not ask about influence on historiosophy...

Do you have any ideas or comments?

And please, I am just a girl ;), so no s***** words please
:)

I think Nietzche had a strong inbuilt bullsh1t detector..I like his view on the slave mentality and i also like the way it was developed by Thomas szasz.I heard a lecturer from the states say that he lectured in Harvard in the sixties when Nietzche was addded to the curriculum and a lot of students had nervous breakdown when they read him.. He claimed that this type of depressed hysteria did not happen in Europe, but in America It was too much for their timid minds of american optimism. The effects Nietzche had on Poland? i have no idea, France for sure, i dont think the Polish pope would have like him so....